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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velocivixen 06-26-15 12:19 AM

@Sixty Fiver - What brake levers do you like for your R20 that still has a "vintage flair" that won't look way out of place? I have the Velo Orange City Levers on my "utility" mixte and they're inexpensive & look almost identical to what's on My R20. Just curious. Thanks.

BigChief 06-26-15 08:17 AM

If it's a Raleigh made Rudge, any 32 hole 3 1/2" hub should work.
Just remembered. The older bikes had front hubs with a sliding clip that covered an oil hole. (if you're looking for originality)

stm25rs 06-26-15 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17927778)

But if your library doesn't have it, or you get a different version of the 333...

Then what? Just replace the whole hub with another unit?

JohnDThompson 06-26-15 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by stm25rs (Post 17928621)
Then what? Just replace the whole hub with another unit?

BITD, Shimano provided blister-packed innards for the 3.3.3 hub, so when they went bad, you just slid out the old innards and popped in a new one. Probably not a stock item anymore, though, but if you find a working donor hub you pull the innards out and swap them into your wheel.

Minksy 06-26-15 09:07 AM

Thank you gna and bigchief for your responses

I'm not sure if mine is raleigh built. The headbadge says "Rudge Whitworth Nottingham England." Some of the components do bear the Raleigh stamp. The serial is 3770705. Anyways - The front fork spacing appears to be around 90mm.

* What are some general sentiments about widening the fork spacing as opposed to searching for the perfect fit? The 90mm size does not seem to be very abundant on the bay

Thanks

markk900 06-26-15 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17926506)
That tab seems fine but I checked again and the band around the middle of the fender (with the tab that connects to the brake assembly) seems very loose, like the whole fender wiggles inside the band. I guess I'll have to take the whole thing off and bend it, or maybe add a shim. That explains why all the bolts are tight but it's still wiggling. Tried to get a photo of what I mean, but it's not really working. (And they weren't sideways when I uploaded them. Stupid thing.)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=460691http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=460692

Tightened the basket straps and re-wet and bent it up a little higher. Looks like that's solved my issues but I need to wait till it dries and give it a test ride first. Yay!

If you do take the whole fender off to attempt to fix, one trick I use is that I put strips of old inner tube between the band and the fender before I recrimp. It almost guarantees a silent fender (at least from that part of the fender!

BigChief 06-26-15 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Minksy (Post 17928764)
Thank you gna and bigchief for your responses

I'm not sure if mine is raleigh built. The headbadge says "Rudge Whitworth Nottingham England." Some of the components do bear the Raleigh stamp. The serial is 3770705. Anyways - The front fork spacing appears to be around 90mm.

* What are some general sentiments about widening the fork spacing as opposed to searching for the perfect fit? The 90mm size does not seem to be very abundant on the bay

Thanks

Wow, you're right. I didn't think a Sturmey Archer 32 hole front hub would be hard to find on ebay, but it was. Can't imagine why that should be. Should be a common part. Or at least a messed up wheel with a salvageable hub. My forks measure 3 1/2". That converts to 88.9mm. Seems like 90mm might be a little too wide.

gna 06-26-15 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by stm25rs (Post 17928621)
Then what? Just replace the whole hub with another unit?

I was giving examples of sparse documentation. In my case, yes, buy a whole rear wheel with 333 hub from the recycler.

IIRC, recently someone on the c&v forum was having trouble with a 333 hub. I wonder if he was able to fix it.

gna 06-26-15 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Minksy (Post 17928764)
Thank you gna and bigchief for your responses

I'm not sure if mine is raleigh built. The headbadge says "Rudge Whitworth Nottingham England." Some of the components do bear the Raleigh stamp. The serial is 3770705. Anyways - The front fork spacing appears to be around 90mm.

* What are some general sentiments about widening the fork spacing as opposed to searching for the perfect fit? The 90mm size does not seem to be very abundant on the bay

Thanks

Is there a date on the rear hub? I would try a old Raleigh front wheel, but I' m not sure if a Raleigh front hub with spigoted cones would fit.

forestine 06-26-15 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17929431)
I was giving examples of sparse documentation. In my case, yes, buy a whole rear wheel with 333 hub from the recycler.

IIRC, recently someone on the c&v forum was having trouble with a 333 hub. I wonder if he was able to fix it.

Could a person stick an AW wheel on there instead? I have a bike with a 333 that has no cabling or shifter anyway, so I would have to find those to fit whichever hub. I know they have some wheels with AW hubs at the local community shop.

Sixty Fiver 06-26-15 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17928042)
@Sixty Fiver - What brake levers do you like for your R20 that still has a "vintage flair" that won't look way out of place? I have the Velo Orange City Levers on my "utility" mixte and they're inexpensive & look almost identical to what's on My R20. Just curious. Thanks.

My wife's R20 has Shimano XT levers, mine has some older silver (Shimano) V brake levers... being period correct was not that important when I was upgrading those.

Avid levers are a little prettier in silver... :D

dweenk 06-26-15 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17928042)
@Sixty Fiver - What brake levers do you like for your R20 that still has a "vintage flair" that won't look way out of place? I have the Velo Orange City Levers on my "utility" mixte and they're inexpensive & look almost identical to what's on My R20. Just curious. Thanks.

I really like the VO city levers. You are right - they are nearly dead ringers for the originals. Plus they are cheap.

Minksy 06-26-15 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17929438)
Is there a date on the rear hub? I would try a old Raleigh front wheel, but I' m not sure if a Raleigh front hub with spigoted cones would fit.

You'll never believe it by my neighbor had an old Raleigh sports with a 32 hole Raleigh made bolt on front hub - nice chrome, oil cap and all. He have me the whole wheel and it's a perfect fit. Take that epay!

Thanks for the suggestions.

noglider 06-26-15 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17929056)
If you do take the whole fender off to attempt to fix, one trick I use is that I put strips of old inner tube between the band and the fender before I recrimp. It almost guarantees a silent fender (at least from that part of the fender!

Clevah!

gna 06-26-15 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17929740)
Could a person stick an AW wheel on there instead? I have a bike with a 333 that has no cabling or shifter anyway, so I would have to find those to fit whichever hub. I know they have some wheels with AW hubs at the local community shop.

It may fit fine. It's worth a try. What's cheaper?


Originally Posted by Minksy (Post 17930001)
You'll never believe it by my neighbor had an old Raleigh sports with a 32 hole Raleigh made bolt on front hub - nice chrome, oil cap and all. He have me the whole wheel and it's a perfect fit. Take that epay!

Thanks for the suggestions.

Score!

BigChief 06-26-15 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by Minksy (Post 17930001)
You'll never believe it by my neighbor had an old Raleigh sports with a 32 hole Raleigh made bolt on front hub - nice chrome, oil cap and all. He have me the whole wheel and it's a perfect fit. Take that epay!

Thanks for the suggestions.

Very good! So, you've got a friend with an old Sports hanging around taking up valuable space in his garage? :)
Don't forget to post pics of your project. we love pics here

stm25rs 06-26-15 08:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Same guy with the Huffy also has this Raleigh around the $100 point. 1968 Raleigh Sport with SA 3-speed. Also just told him I'd be willing to go up to ~$200 for the right bike, so I'll see what else he has. Either way, going on Sunday to see what he's got, sounds like he's got tons of bikes!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461006

forestine 06-26-15 10:40 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17930427)
It may fit fine. It's worth a try. What's cheaper?

The wheel seems the same size, easier to find than 333 parts, plus I would get to practice overhauling an AW that wasn't already attached to a bike I wanted to ride. This hub doesn't even have the shifter rod and seems really complicated to overhaul. A fleabay search makes it seem expensive and difficult to find stuff.

adventurepdx 06-27-15 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by stm25rs (Post 17930527)
Same guy with the Huffy also has this Raleigh around the $100 point. 1968 Raleigh Sport with SA 3-speed. Also just told him I'd be willing to go up to ~$200 for the right bike, so I'll see what else he has. Either way, going on Sunday to see what he's got, sounds like he's got tons of bikes!

I think you'd be happier with that Sports!

kingsting 06-27-15 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by stm25rs (Post 17930527)
Same guy with the Huffy also has this Raleigh around the $100 point. 1968 Raleigh Sport with SA 3-speed. Also just told him I'd be willing to go up to ~$200 for the right bike, so I'll see what else he has. Either way, going on Sunday to see what he's got, sounds like he's got tons of bikes!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461006

I've run across a few of these gold Raleighs over the years and they have been kind of a mystery to me. They seem have a different parts spec compared to a "traditional" Sports. The most obvious being the chainguard, saddle, rims, and of course the color. Was this a special model?
I sold a gold ladies bike like this for $100 last year. The guy who bought it couldn't get his wallet out fast enough. What did he know that I didn't? ;)

JohnDThompson 06-27-15 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by kingsting (Post 17931694)
I've run across a few of these gold Raleighs over the years and they have been kind of a mystery to me. They seem have a different parts spec compared to a "traditional" Sports. The most obvious being the chainguard, saddle, rims, and of course the color. Was this a special model?

My daughter-in-law has a women's Raleigh LTD in that color and chain guard style. Are we sure this is a "Sports?"

Minksy 06-27-15 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17930510)
Very good! So, you've got a friend with an old Sports hanging around taking up valuable space in his garage? :)
Don't forget to post pics of your project. we love pics here

Up here in Maine there seems to be a lot of old 3 speeds around. Both on the road and collecting dust.
Pics to come if I can figure it out.

gna 06-27-15 10:01 PM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17930780)
The wheel seems the same size, easier to find than 333 parts, plus I would get to practice overhauling an AW that wasn't already attached to a bike I wanted to ride. This hub doesn't even have the shifter rod and seems really complicated to overhaul. A fleabay search makes it seem expensive and difficult to find stuff.

eBay can lead you astray. The bike recycler places I've been always seem to have extra 333 shifters, bellcranks, and hubs. Of course, an AW would be a good way to go. 333 IGH hubs were made to fit the same kind of bikes, so it may only involve lining up the right anti-rotaion washers and nuts. Get the AW! Take it apart! It's fun!

gna 06-27-15 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 17931808)
My daughter-in-law has a women's Raleigh LTD in that color and chain guard style. Are we sure this is a "Sports?"

The gold ones seem to have appeared in 1968 or so, with a slightly different designation, DL22-something. It's probably somewhere in the 300+ pages of this thread.
EDIT: S-22 -- A quick search of this thread for gold popped up these posts:

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post15945878
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post10438989

BigChief 06-27-15 10:56 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Speaking ogf old 3 speeds in Maine... My wife brought this back from a friends house for me. Now that's a good marriage! Since it's an earlier bike,
I'm going to take the time to preserve useable parts. In spite of it's appearance, there are a lot
of salvageable parts that would be useful in a restoration project. Thing is, I'm a Raleigh guy and this ain't
a Raleigh. I don't know what it is. Any ideas? It has a SA licensed Brampton 3 speed hub, but a SA 3 or 4 speed window
trigger. The fulcrum clip doesn't appear to be the SA style, so I'm going to guess the hub came with the bike and the
round Brampton trigger was replaced with the SA part at some point. The trigger may be rusted beyond repair, but I'll
play with it some. You never know. The fenders and chainguard aren't damaged and only lightly rusted. Even the frame
is in reasonable condition. The brake levers and crank assembly look like they will turn out well too. The reflector
is in surprisingly good condition. There are no remaining traces of decals and no outline of the missing badge on the head tube.
Badge mounting holes are in the 12:00 and 6:00 positions. Does anybody recognize this bike? That chainguard is pretty distinctive.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461209http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461210http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461211http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461212http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461213

gster 06-28-15 07:16 AM

Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2014/2015
https://vimeo.com/126009934

forestine 06-28-15 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17932874)
eBay can lead you astray. The bike recycler places I've been always seem to have extra 333 shifters, bellcranks, and hubs. Of course, an AW would be a good way to go. 333 IGH hubs were made to fit the same kind of bikes, so it may only involve lining up the right anti-rotaion washers and nuts. Get the AW! Take it apart! It's fun!

@nelsonmilum found us a wheel with a '77 AW hub on it, and grabbed a shifter and stuff while he was there. It's a crappy department store bike we're going to fix up together. I'll post about it later. Yay! (not yay for crappy, yay for fixing)

nelsonmilum 06-28-15 02:07 PM

The hub had the washers and nuts included too, so minimal hunting! Also grabbed a shifter and some cable guides since I was there. :-)

dweenk 06-28-15 02:19 PM

Did you drive from Winnipeg to Toronto for the wheel? If you did, you must have a serious commitment to the project.

nelsonmilum 06-28-15 03:15 PM

@dweenk, fortunately there are 5 or 6 community bike shops it the area, the first one I went to had everything we needed.

Also, it would be faster, cheaper, and probably easier to drive to the Minneapolis area than to stay in Canada :) (7 Hour drive vs 21, as long as my passport is all in order.)


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