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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Gasbag 08-07-15 09:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The only difference between these two triggers is the one on the left was ultrasonically cleaned in an oxalic acid bath. Antiquing on the cheap!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469757

BigChief 08-07-15 01:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I don't believe they use brass in the chrome plating process. I could be wrong, I believe they use nickel. There's no doubt that the mounting band and rivet heads of this shifter have traces of brass plating and not a hint of chrome. The one I restored was out in the weather for years and the band retains almost all of it's chrome plating. Although I did use Evapo-rust and not oxalic acid on my restoration. That didn't disturb the remaining chrome at all. Not sure if oxalic acid dissolves chrome and leaves traces of brass colored plating. But why soak a perfectly clean, unrusted shifter in oxalic acid?
I'm still thinking it was made with a decorative brass finish. This is my Evapo-rust soaked trigger.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469774

dweenk 08-07-15 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18053548)
The only difference between these two triggers is the one on the left was ultrasonically cleaned in an oxalic acid bath. Antiquing on the cheap!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469757

The trigger on the left looks horrible. Are you saying that OA did that? That has not been my experience with OA, but I would like to know details.

Gasbag 08-07-15 04:23 PM

This one has me stumped too. I would expect copper under chrome. I was cleaning a batch of rusty small parts and did the trigger because it was pretty dirty and had surface rust. I was surprised that it came out brass and it didn't hurt the paint either. None of the other chrome was effected other than the rust was gone. It matches the tarnished brass bell on my DL1 so that is where it is going. The plastic trigger never appealed to me anyway.

JohnDThompson 08-07-15 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18054261)
I'm still thinking it was made with a decorative brass finish.

On the specimen I have here, it appears there is a brass face plate overlying the rest of the mechanism:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/sa3or4.jpg

BigChief 08-07-15 08:54 PM

Another one! Well, If these came from the factory this way or not, one thing I can say for certain is...If you're planning on de-rusting an old SA shifter, use Evaporust. I know from experience that it won't remove the chrome from the embossed brass faceplate.

jamesj 08-07-15 11:44 PM

started taking the superbe apart and was wondering if the dynohub worked. I was able to get this from it. the front bulb is burned out. Question how does one clean out the bearing on this hub?

https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xaf1/v/t42.1790-2/11830365_10207467239628468_1626547469_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjY4NywicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoicmVzXzQyNl9jcmZfMjNfbWFpbl8zLjBfc2QifQ%3D%3D&rl=687&vabr=382&oh=53e9f1d110165a705fb3e0207a4505e9&oe=55C5BE8F

Velocivixen 08-08-15 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 18055639)
started taking the superbe apart and was wondering if the dynohub worked. I was able to get this from it. the front bulb is burned out. Question how does one clean out the bearing on this hub?

https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xaf1/v/t42.1790-2/11830365_10207467239628468_1626547469_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjY4NywicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoicmVzXzQyNl9jcmZfMjNfbWFpbl8zLjBfc2QifQ%3D%3D&rl=687&vabr=382&oh=53e9f1d110165a705fb3e0207a4505e9&oe=55C5BE8F


I used the the links on the Sturmey Archer Heritage site. There are instructions on how to disassemble & reassemble their Dyno hubs. Here's a PDF manual for servicing all their hubs up to 1960.

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Gasbag 08-08-15 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18055391)
Another one! Well, If these came from the factory this way or not, one thing I can say for certain is...If you're planning on de-rusting an old SA shifter, use Evaporust. I know from experience that it won't remove the chrome from the embossed brass faceplate.

I hit the de-chromed shifter with metal polish and it is indeed brass, actually looks pretty nice now.

My theory. Chrome over brass instead of copper made for less than ideal adhesion. The faceplate has a very thin layer of chrome (it possibly could be a plating other than chrome, though I wouldn't know what). Being a manly man and following the "if a little is good, more is better" way of thinking, I had a pretty strong oxalic acid mix in the tank. The ultrasonic tank that I have is an L&R professional model and cleans very aggressively. All combined for removing the plating.

Or, the mischievous troll that lives under my work bench and delights in hiding my drill chuck key has a new trick up his sleeve.

Gasbag 08-08-15 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 18055222)
On the specimen I have here, it appears there is a brass face plate overlying the rest of the mechanism:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/sa3or4.jpg

That sir, is an odd duck. Second style spring, making it post 1948. Pat GB rather than Pat No. making it post 1950. 3 or 4 speed making it pre 1953.

The embossed stamping is what really makes it stand out from the crowd.

That is a handsome trigger.

BigChief 08-08-15 07:55 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Guess that explains it. OA removes the chrome as well as the rust. Here's the before and after of mine using the Evaporust.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469885http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469886

nlerner 08-08-15 07:59 AM

I also have a trigger with a brass face:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...rCourseAM4.jpg

Gasbag 08-08-15 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18056156)
Guess that explains it. OA removes the chrome as well as the rust. Here's the before and after of mine using the Evaporust.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469885http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469886

Looks like I may need to try Evapo-Rust. Some of my recent OA experiences haven't been impressive, especially on pre-war nickle plating. Does it harm spokes when cleaning rims? Is it safe on painted surfaces?

I really need new rim cleaning technology, I'm sooooooo tired of cleaning rims by hand.

gster 08-08-15 08:14 AM

3 Attachment(s)
1971 Hercules Update.
This one's almost done for the time being. I installed a pulley on the seat post but it turns out that both of the fulcrum clips i had were too big.I'm still on the lookout for some more mini fenders but may just put the originals back on.
Total cost to date: Bike @ $80.00, New tires @ $30.00, new chain @ $10.00, NOS pedals @ $5.00, new shifter cable @ $8.00, new bearings @ $2.00, vintage saddlebags @ $25.00 = $155.00.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469888http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469889http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469890

BigChief 08-08-15 09:33 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18056183)
Looks like I may need to try Evapo-Rust. Some of my recent OA experiences haven't been impressive, especially on pre-war nickle plating. Does it harm spokes when cleaning rims? Is it safe on painted surfaces?

I really need new rim cleaning technology, I'm sooooooo tired of cleaning rims by hand.


Don't think it would work so well on rims unless you could soak them somehow. It's not very aggressive. The results on this trigger came from 2 days of soaking in a jar. It works well, but slowly.

BigChief 08-08-15 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18056165)
I also have a trigger with a brass face:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...rCourseAM4.jpg


Gotta say, the brass plate does look nice.

jamesj 08-08-15 07:50 PM

I know this isn't the ISO thread but I figured this would be the best place to ask, does anyone have a pair of Brake cable adjusters as well as the mounting hardware. please Message me if so. Also if moderators need to move this go ahead. thanx

Here is what I'm looking for.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/428/2...0c946969_z.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/400/2...e58b5c51_z.jpg


thanx

gster 08-09-15 08:26 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Final post on this one.
1971 Hercules
I did re route the gear cable through a fulcrum stop and pulley (Fulcrum courtesy of George at Parts Unknown at the foot of Fraser Ave here in Toronto).
Restored the original fenders and chain guard and pushed the saddle bags back a bit as they were interfering with both the indicator chain and the back of my foot as I peddled...
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470075http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470076http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470077http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470078
Also found at Parts Unknown this winged Glider chain guard. Not sure if I'll keep it on this bike (1964 Glider), but I'll try it for a while.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470079http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470080

markk900 08-09-15 08:51 AM

@gster: I know you like those shorty fenders but I do think the Hercules looks better with the longer ones. Nice work on both bikes (my Glider is languishing in the basement right now - awaiting inspiration).

What tires did you use for the Hercules?

gster 08-09-15 12:53 PM

I agree on the fenders. I originally planned to build a path racer but after attaching the saddle bags it returned to it's original form. The tires are simple Kendas from Canadian Tire @ $14.00/each.

SirMike1983 08-09-15 02:38 PM

Those brass plate shifters are among my favorites. I have a handful of them, some on bikes and some in the parts bin. They function well with the FW and the AW hubs, are pretty well made, and look nice.

rubah 08-09-15 06:47 PM

My current project is swapping out the frame on bike #2 so my boyfriend can actually get on it to ride. He's shorter than me, and it must be the 23" Sport, since I could barely get on it in the lowest seat position. It doesn't help that it has a big ol' thick saddle on it, but he's not going to be riding enough to care what kind of saddle it has, as long as he thinks it should be comfortable. I got a Superbe lady's frame from ebay and it's not in great condition, but the original Sport frame wasn't in great shape either. They're different colors, too, so it'll be a hot mess.


Originally Posted by PatrickZ (Post 17749364)
I missed your earlier posts, but did you also service your cranks before adjusting the chain guard? There is sufficient space on the flat surface of the spindle to allow the crank to be properly seated, but further outboard the bottom bracket than normal, thus causing the chainguard to rub. This happened to me once.

glad I searched this thread! I finally got around to disassembling my bottom brackets, and after cleaning and putting it back together, found it very difficult to turn the cranks to drive the sprocket, but when I went the opposite direction where there was no load, it was fine. And when I would run the wheel by itself, there was also no issue (after I readjusted it a dozen times to stop rubbing against the fender stays... or the brakes... or the top of the fender... damn narrow clearances!) Anyway, drove the cotter back out, wiggled the chainring a little, drove the cotter back in, repeat a couple of times because I couldn't figure out if the nutted ends of the cotters should be same or alternate... I hope it's okay if they're on the same side, 'cause I don't want to keep risking my luck with this dang cotter. I had used the press from the co-op, but it's about half an hours' drive, so I have to plan my trips there efficiently.

[Edit, pic of the bee that fell out of my bottom bracket...]
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Fv...52whvpG_0=s600

dweenk 08-10-15 01:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Today I finally got around to repairing a Sturmey Archer trigger that I've been "meaning to get to" for a couple of years. The pawl spring was broken and needed to be replaced. It is the older type of spring that is made of flat stock. A few weeks ago one of the forum members pointed me to an Ebay seller who had a couple of them for a decent price. I had removed the pawl rivet long ago (I saved the original and made a backup from a nail just in case). The job turned out to be a minor PITA, but it came together well in the end. I was even able to reuse the original rivet. I have attached a photo of the repaired trigger and the spare spring.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470386

BigChief 08-11-15 03:30 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18062574)
Today I finally got around to repairing a Sturmey Archer trigger that I've been "meaning to get to" for a couple of years. The pawl spring was broken and needed to be replaced. It is the older type of spring that is made of flat stock. A few weeks ago one of the forum members pointed me to an Ebay seller who had a couple of them for a decent price. I had removed the pawl rivet long ago (I saved the original and made a backup from a nail just in case). The job turned out to be a minor PITA, but it came together well in the end. I was even able to reuse the original rivet. I have attached a photo of the repaired trigger and the spare spring.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=470386


Getting those pins lined up while under spring pressure is a bit tricky. I love these old shifters, well worth the effort.

dweenk 08-11-15 02:56 PM

I have a Sturmey Archer SC3 hub from 1988 that needs repair. I've never had to rebuild an AW hub (they seem to be invincible), but I've been told that they are fairly easy to deal with. I know that many folks think that the SC3 was a poor design - but I have one that does not want to freewheel.

I have a diagram and exploded view of the hub, but I would appreciate tips from folks who have actual experience in the process.

JohnDThompson 08-11-15 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by rubah (Post 18059922)
drove the cotter back out, wiggled the chainring a little, drove the cotter back in, repeat a couple of times because I couldn't figure out if the nutted ends of the cotters should be same or alternate... I hope it's okay if they're on the same side, 'cause I don't want to keep risking my luck with this dang cotter. I had used the press from the co-op, but it's about half an hours' drive, so I have to plan my trips there efficiently.

If I'm understanding your question about the cotters, they should alternate; that is, with the crank arms horizontal, one pin should should have the nut facing up and the other side should have it facing down. If they're both facing the same direction, the arms won't be 180 apart and pedalling will feel goofy.

BigChief 08-11-15 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18066378)
I have a Sturmey Archer SC3 hub from 1988 that needs repair. I've never had to rebuild an AW hub (they seem to be invincible), but I've been told that they are fairly easy to deal with. I know that many folks think that the SC3 was a poor design - but I have one that does not want to freewheel.

I have a diagram and exploded view of the hub, but I would appreciate tips from folks who have actual experience in the process.

Never worked on a sc3 hub, but I did see this video. Might be some similarities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hm0YgtZyAE

I watch things like this on my coffee breaks.

Gasbag 08-12-15 04:33 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18066378)
I have a Sturmey Archer SC3 hub from 1988 that needs repair. I've never had to rebuild an AW hub (they seem to be invincible), but I've been told that they are fairly easy to deal with. I know that many folks think that the SC3 was a poor design - but I have one that does not want to freewheel.

I have a diagram and exploded view of the hub, but I would appreciate tips from folks who have actual experience in the process.

If the drive side bearing cone is too tight, that might be all that is keeping it from freewheeling.

When I rebuild a hub, I layout a white towel and place the parts in a row in order of disassemble; non drive to the right, hub center, drive side left. Inward facing is placed upward on the towel. Each part cleaned and inspected prior to removing the next part. I leave pawls and springs in place unless there is a reason to remove them. Bearings get packed with Phil Woods grease upon reassembly. Sliding parts assemblies get a very light coating of PW grease.

Gasbag 08-13-15 07:27 AM

The crank cotters came in the mail for my CWS restoration last week. Same day, I tripped while doing yard work and injured my shoulder. The shoulder was and still is painful so I put off fitting the cotters so I could rest it and let it heal. This morning it felt better so I started fitting the cotters and noticed the body of my home brew http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ter-press.html cotter press was cracked and is now officially a paperweight. Grrrrrrrrr :cry:. Ordered a cotter press and cup tool from BikeSmith design. They are a bit pricey but I've long earned my living as a truck mechanic and inferior and faulty tools get my dander up. Maybe next week I can get back to it.

BigChief 08-13-15 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18071467)
The crank cotters came in the mail for my CWS restoration last week. Same day, I tripped while doing yard work and injured my shoulder. The shoulder was and still is painful so I put off fitting the cotters so I could rest it and let it heal. This morning it felt better so I started fitting the cotters and noticed the body of my home brew http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ter-press.html cotter press was cracked and is now officially a paperweight. Grrrrrrrrr :cry:. Ordered a cotter press and cup tool from BikeSmith design. They are a bit pricey but I've long earned my living as a truck mechanic and inferior and faulty tools get my dander up. Maybe next week I can get back to it.


It's pricey, but did you notice how he upped his game on this tool? Plated now, nice rounded edges, quite slick. Not a home made tool anymore.


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