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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

adventurepdx 01-10-16 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18448412)
Totally over priced in today's market. Average prices here in Toronto would be $250-$350 for clean, complete Superbes. An extremely "mint" one sold last year for close to $500.

To be fair to the seller I mentioned above, it looks like they did a lot of work on the gold Sports: built new wheels, dynamo lighting setup, cotterless crankset, etc. And they also outfitted it with nice accessories like VO fenders and a Brooks saddle. (How many CL ads have we seen with a photo of a bike with a Brooks saddle on it, only to see "Brooks saddle not included" in the descrip? I've seen a lot.)

The seller has already done a lot of the work that folks like me would have done to an old three speed, though I would quibble with some of the choices, like 700C wheels and cotterless crankset.

Now is it worth $800? To the seller, yes, probably when they get the calculator out and factor in time, labor, and parts. But still, I doubt that anyone is going to pay that price. And people like me who appreciate this kind of stuff (and who is the "target market" for a bike like this) would be "but I don't like the 700C wheels and cotterless crankset."

So we shall see. If the Superbe is any indication (and note the seller spells it as "Superb"), this thing will sit on CL for a good long time, and the price isn't going to move.

noglider 01-10-16 12:27 PM

@Velocivixen and @nlerner, I face the bike from the front and point my palms out. Palms go into the fork and thumbs hold the wheel by the spokes. Push the spokes in and the fork blades out as I ease the wheel up (if the bike is in a stand) or ease the fork down from the air (if the wheel is on the ground).

adventurepdx 01-10-16 12:45 PM

3 Attachment(s)
And yes, Portland can be an "overinflated bike price" town. But there are good deals to be found, even on CL. I got my Raleigh Wayfarer for only $30, and see above mention by @Velocivixen of her $25 Raleigh Sports. They are out there. I also remember a nice looking Superbe selling for $200 a few months ago.

Currently there are a few reasonably priced three speeds on there:

This ladies Raleigh Sports has been sitting for awhile. Sort of surprised since the price is only $135, but the "creepy hallway" photos don't exactly sell the bike.
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/5385063901.html
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497608

A decent Sports for $200.
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/5387439249.html
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497609

This Huffy Sportsman has been up for a bit too. Not the best shape, but for $120 not a bad deal.
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/5353377800.html
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497610

adventurepdx 01-10-16 12:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
And on a final Portland CL note, I saw this nice Rudge. A bit high at $400, but in really good shape.https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/5395759785.html
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497628

noglider 01-10-16 01:01 PM

Oh, that Rudge! My favorite!

Velocivixen 01-10-16 01:05 PM

Here is the newly powdercoated 1971 Raleigh Twenty with new vinyl decals from VeloCals (thanks Santa!). Very easy to install, and they include detailed application instructions. I used the "wet" method. Of course, nothing is like the originals, but I'm happy and the bike is no longer having an "identity crisis". :thumb:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1586/...d4e4f53e_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty Vinyl Decal by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/...32d49d5d_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty New Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/...a27a2dca_z.jpgR20 Seat Tube Vinyl Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr




https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1675/...9a13b2bd_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty by velocivixen, on Flickr



https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1616/...906d5915_z.jpgR20 New Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr


They also sell a couple of different decals which are meant to have liquid paint clearcoat over the top - one is slightly thicker & the other is extremely thin.

Only regret is that I forgot to have @gugie add fork fender eyelets. I had to buy these ugly extensions from VO that extend from the axle so the fender stays would have a place to mount. Would like to find a R20 fork (with thimbles) that I could have eyelets brazed/welded on then have that fork powder coated. I'd make sure to remove the thimbles BEFORE powdercoat.

3speedslow 01-10-16 01:15 PM

That is a nice looking Twenty!

gster 01-10-16 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18448806)
Here is the newly powdercoated 1971 Raleigh Twenty with new vinyl decals from VeloCals (thanks Santa!). Very easy to install, and they include detailed application instructions. I used the "wet" method. Of course, nothing is like the originals, but I'm happy and the bike is no longer having an "identity crisis". :thumb:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1586/...d4e4f53e_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty Vinyl Decal by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/...32d49d5d_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty New Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/...a27a2dca_z.jpgR20 Seat Tube Vinyl Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr


They also sell a couple of different decals which are meant to have liquid paint clearcoat over the top - one is slightly thicker & the other is extremely thin.

Only regret is that I forgot to have @gugie add fork fender eyelets. I had to buy these ugly extensions from VO that extend from the axle so the fender stays would have a place to mount. Would like to find a R20 fork (with thimbles) that I could have eyelets brazed/welded on then have that fork powder coated. I'd make sure to remove the thimbles BEFORE powdercoat.

That's quality work

Velocivixen 01-10-16 02:35 PM

Thanks! Have to wait 24 hrs. before riding & such.

gster 01-10-16 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18448727)
To be fair to the seller I mentioned above, it looks like they did a lot of work on the gold Sports: built new wheels, dynamo lighting setup, cotterless crankset, etc. And they also outfitted it with nice accessories like VO fenders and a Brooks saddle. (How many CL ads have we seen with a photo of a bike with a Brooks saddle on it, only to see "Brooks saddle not included" in the descrip? I've seen a lot.)

The seller has already done a lot of the work that folks like me would have done to an old three speed, though I would quibble with some of the choices, like 700C wheels and cotterless crankset.

Now is it worth $800? To the seller, yes, probably when they get the calculator out and factor in time, labor, and parts. But still, I doubt that anyone is going to pay that price. And people like me who appreciate this kind of stuff (and who is the "target market" for a bike like this) would be "but I don't like the 700C wheels and cotterless crankset."

So we shall see. If the Superbe is any indication (and note the seller spells it as "Superb"), this thing will sit on CL for a good long time, and the price isn't going to move.

This is the reason that I don't think it's worth spending any money on these bikes unless:
A)-You're going to keep it and ride it or
B)-the bike was free, or almost free.
Even if you sell it for the sum of the original price plus the new tires/parts etc you'll be lucky to break even and then there's the labour that you'll never recoup.
The only guy at the Toronto Vintage Bike Show who makes any (real) money drives in from Peterborough with 15-20 bikes that he's bought in the country at garage sales and such.
He only buys complete bikes in very good to excellent condition and prices them accordingly ($150-$350) I don't know what he pays for them but it's not much. He usually sells everything he's brought
with him and may even buy a couple to take back.

gster 01-10-16 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18448773)
And on a final Portland CL note, I saw this nice Rudge. A bit high at $400, but in really good shape.https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/5395759785.html
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497628

I like that Rudge as well. Looks like it has a coster brake hub.

adventurepdx 01-10-16 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18448999)
This is the reason that I don't think it's worth spending any money on these bikes unless:
A)-You're going to keep it and ride it or
B)-the bike was free, or almost free.
Even if you sell it for the sum of the original price plus the new tires/parts etc you'll be lucky to break even and then there's the labour that you'll never recoup.

Which is a bit of a shame, because it would be nice to get some semi-modernized three speeds out to aspiring commuters. I think the only way to make it work if you were some bespoke operation where someone would come to you, pick out an old three speed and choose the modifications. Of course, finding the people who would be the customers wouldn't be that easy.

markk900 01-10-16 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18448999)
The only guy at the Toronto Vintage Bike Show who makes any (real) money drives in from Peterborough with 15-20 bikes that he's bought in the country at garage sales and such.

Is that Lumpy?

markk900 01-10-16 05:59 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18449009)
I like that Rudge as well. Looks like it has a coster brake hub.

To your earlier post, doubt you could get a "free" bike to that level of quality for less than the asking price....good deal for someone that wants something that is almost new.

gster 01-10-16 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18449348)
To your earlier post, doubt you could get a "free" bike to that level of quality for less than the asking price....good deal for someone that wants something that is almost new.

The Rudge is a bike I would consider at that price... but I am NOT buying anymore bikes until I get rid of a few.

gster 01-10-16 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18449343)
Is that Lumpy?

No, not Lumpy. His name is Brian.

erileykc 01-10-16 06:38 PM

Just reinstalled the newly overhauled hub on my 1979 Tourist and ran into a couple of issues and a WTF. The major WTF is the axle nuts. My Tourist has a pair of large hex nuts for both sides of the axle and the indicator stand-off that the indicator chain exits thru is a separate threaded tube. That tube still threads on fine but both of the axle nuts are totally striped to the point that I can slide them up and down the axle by a good half an inch. This is the first time I have ever disassembled the rear hub and the axle nuts didn't appear striped when I took it apart initially. Really perplexed at how they could be so far gone after simply sitting in a drawer for a couple of month. In any case can anyone tell me the threading for these nuts and / or a good source for replacements that aren't striped?

Second question is cone adjustment. Sheldon Brown describes adjustments that pretty much add up to finger tight and a bit more Googling the topic seems to echo that but I'm not getting a smooth spinning wheel when I adjust the cones on that basis. Anyone have a procedure more exacting than 'finger-tight and then back off a quarter turn"?

Thanks for any suggestions

Riley

gugie 01-10-16 06:46 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18448806)
Here is the newly powdercoated 1971 Raleigh Twenty with new vinyl decals from VeloCals (thanks Santa!). Very easy to install, and they include detailed application instructions. I used the "wet" method. Of course, nothing is like the originals, but I'm happy and the bike is no longer having an "identity crisis". :thumb:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1675/...9a13b2bd_z.jpg

Only regret is that I forgot to have @gugie add fork fender eyelets. I had to buy these ugly extensions from VO that extend from the axle so the fender stays would have a place to mount. Would like to find a R20 fork (with thimbles) that I could have eyelets brazed/welded on then have that fork powder coated. I'd make sure to remove the thimbles BEFORE powdercoat.

Thanks for adding the "full monty" shot! But, shoot! Wish I woulda tought of fenders!

Looks great, I can imagine you getting lots of compliments on the trail!

gugie 01-10-16 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18447841)
Great tip. Thank you! I'm getting my $25 Raleigh Sport ready to sell. I just have to reattach the rear fender & replace 1 spoke that I accidentally broke. I've completely overhauled everything - both wheel hubs, headset, bottom bracket, etc. It's a very large size. My cute little 19" fits me great,

It's a very large size?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................................

Velocivixen 01-10-16 06:52 PM

You're welcome to have at it. You know I paid only $25. Spent about $32 for new tubes/tires. It's taking up space in the garage. :) I'd sell it to you at cost. That way if you decided it wasn't for you, you could sell it or canibalize it.

shoot me an email.

ascherer 01-10-16 08:59 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18448797)
Oh, that Rudge! My favorite!

Yes, that's the model I mentioned in my email earlier...3 speed coaster brake. I got that (used) sometime around 1966. No front fender and a Wals basket. I lost track of it somewhere in the mid 1970s, fancied myself a racer boy.

BigChief 01-11-16 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18448806)
Here is the newly powdercoated 1971 Raleigh Twenty with new vinyl decals from VeloCals (thanks Santa!). Very easy to install, and they include detailed application instructions. I used the "wet" method. Of course, nothing is like the originals, but I'm happy and the bike is no longer having an "identity crisis". :thumb:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1586/...d4e4f53e_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty Vinyl Decal by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1546/...32d49d5d_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty New Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1719/...a27a2dca_z.jpgR20 Seat Tube Vinyl Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr




https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1675/...9a13b2bd_z.jpgRaleigh Twenty by velocivixen, on Flickr



https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1616/...906d5915_z.jpgR20 New Decals by velocivixen, on Flickr


They also sell a couple of different decals which are meant to have liquid paint clearcoat over the top - one is slightly thicker & the other is extremely thin.

Only regret is that I forgot to have @gugie add fork fender eyelets. I had to buy these ugly extensions from VO that extend from the axle so the fender stays would have a place to mount. Would like to find a R20 fork (with thimbles) that I could have eyelets brazed/welded on then have that fork powder coated. I'd make sure to remove the thimbles BEFORE powdercoat.


That looks great! These new materials may not look exactly the same as the old enamel and varnish transfers, but they will be far more durable and fade resistant. Good job!

markk900 01-11-16 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by erileykc (Post 18449405)
Just reinstalled the newly overhauled hub on my 1979 Tourist and ran into a couple of issues and a WTF. The major WTF is the axle nuts. My Tourist has a pair of large hex nuts for both sides of the axle and the indicator stand-off that the indicator chain exits thru is a separate threaded tube. That tube still threads on fine but both of the axle nuts are totally striped to the point that I can slide them up and down the axle by a good half an inch. This is the first time I have ever disassembled the rear hub and the axle nuts didn't appear striped when I took it apart initially. Really perplexed at how they could be so far gone after simply sitting in a drawer for a couple of month. In any case can anyone tell me the threading for these nuts and / or a good source for replacements that aren't striped?

Second question is cone adjustment. Sheldon Brown describes adjustments that pretty much add up to finger tight and a bit more Googling the topic seems to echo that but I'm not getting a smooth spinning wheel when I adjust the cones on that basis. Anyone have a procedure more exacting than 'finger-tight and then back off a quarter turn"?

Thanks for any suggestions

Riley

Are you sure they are the right nuts (ie. the ones you took off)? Stripped badly enough to slide up and down the threaded part of the axle is pretty stripped and I would expect if it happened when you removed them you would have felt/seen that problem.....Second idea would be to get a new set from the LBS to see how they fit. I assume you can see the threads on the axle and they look OK.

On the adjustment, I used the sheldon method quite successfully, but I think its "finger tight then back off enough to let the square locking washer make it over the flats of the nut"....which can be less than 1/4 turn. Do you feel roughness in the bearing or is there a different issue that makes you feel it is not smooth? Also, cones need to be tight enough to give a *small* amount of play at the rim, but not so tight as to bind.

BigChief 01-11-16 08:47 AM

Sounds to me like the axle nuts are the correct size, but incorrect thread pitch and somebody just forced them on. They would seem tight because they were cross threaded. When you took them off, the mashed up threads wouldn't hold anymore.
edit to add: The good news is that the axle is case hardened and the nuts probably aren't. So the axle threads should have survived the ham fisted repair job.

arex 01-11-16 08:51 AM

That Twenty is beautiful.

bmthom.gis 01-11-16 09:34 AM

Blah, mine is currently down. Something is stripped on the rear drive side. I can't get the nut holding the wheel on to stay tight. That's probably why my SA hub went out of whack on me. Hopefully this week I'll be able to see what's what and hopefully it is an easy fix.

BigChief 01-11-16 09:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Got the Rudge painted. Still has the rusty Schwinn front wheel. noglider is quite correct about the tread on those Kenda 597s. It is truly awful. But, enough wrenching for now. I want to ride a while. I'll get all the bugs out eventually.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497813

noglider 01-11-16 10:05 AM

@erileykc and @bmthom.gis, those axle nuts are designed to strip easily, believe it or not. They are made of soft metal. The rationale is that the axle is valuable and also difficult to change, so rather than risking the nut stripping the axle, the axle strips the nut. Tightening the nuts properly takes a bit of skill. You have to make them tight enough that the wheel won't slip but not tight enough to strip them. And still, you'll strip them occasionally. Buy a new pair plus a spare pair.

bmthom.gis 01-11-16 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18450736)
@erileykc and @bmthom.gis, those axle nuts are designed to strip easily, believe it or not. They are made of soft metal. The rationale is that the axle is valuable and also difficult to change, so rather than risking the nut stripping the axle, the axle strips the nut. Tightening the nuts properly takes a bit of skill. You have to make them tight enough that the wheel won't slip but not tight enough to strip them. And still, you'll strip them occasionally. Buy a new pair plus a spare pair.

So you think it could just be the nut? That's terrific news! I *really* didn't want to change the axle.

noglider 01-11-16 10:23 AM


Originally Posted by bmthom.gis (Post 18450766)
So you think it could just be the nut? That's terrific news! I *really* didn't want to change the axle.

Yes, this happens a lot. It's the nut. The axle is made of very hard steel, for durability.


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