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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Buellster 01-10-19 10:15 PM

Does anyone know why some of the SA triggers have the text upside down?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b2860ce9d0.jpg

Like should I be mounting this undearneath on the left side? Is it so people can read it from the front of the bike if its tilted flat?
I've seen it on the old 3 speed ones too and it just seems odd.

adventurepdx 01-11-19 01:21 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20742315)
Does anyone know why some of the SA triggers have the text upside down?
Like should I be mounting this underneath on the left side? Is it so people can read it from the front of the bike if its tilted flat?
I've seen it on the old 3 speed ones too and it just seems odd.

They're meant to be mounted "hanging", like this:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7170/6...2495870b_z.jpg
They look better on drop bars or flipped bars, which was more common in that era (50's).

adventurepdx 01-11-19 01:30 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20742315)
Does anyone know why some of the SA triggers have the text upside down?

Another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/790/40...4b16d54f_z.jpg

(also, did you see that I PM'd ya, @Buellster ?)

gster 01-11-19 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 20742440)
Another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/790/40...4b16d54f_z.jpg

(also, did you see that I PM'd ya, @Buellster ?)

That's how I set mine up as well. Flat and close to the lever.

markk900 01-11-19 06:32 AM

Re: Triggers: I am sure a lot of you have seen this but for those that haven't here is an excellent reference for all things SA Trigger:

http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanc...gersjuly06.pdf

Mark

thumpism 01-11-19 06:50 AM

Shiny!!! Really nice period piece, an Austrian Sears bike that is probably overpriced.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...792076190.html

SEARS road/commuter classic - $299 (Richmond)


https://images.craigslist.org/00f0f_...km_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/01414_...z4_600x450.jpg

https://images.craigslist.org/00X0X_...ka_600x450.jpg

bicycle type: other
condition: like new
frame size: other
make / manufacturer: SEARS
wheel size: other/unknown
Sears Made in Austria bicycle

Steal lugged frame
Original Royce headlight and taillight system/generator
Dual side baskets over rear wheel
Richmond va licence plate
VCU 1975 Bike Registration
3 speed internal rear hub.
Original fenders, pedals, pump
Tires and tubes have been replaced, in great shape no dry-rot.

Great bike for back to school or commuter classic.

Please text or email, or leave a voicemail. Thanks, Dak

BigChief 01-11-19 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20742523)
That's how I set mine up as well. Flat and close to the lever.

This is how I mount mine as well. That's why I prefer the older style with the longer trigger. Apparently, SA was aware of the problem of their triggers getting bent from leaning bikes against walls back in 1939 as they issued this recommendation for "Flick trigger" mounting. They advise mounting them far back on the handlebar to what I consider an inconvenient position. Things got even worse when Raleigh introduced their "light alloy prop stand" in 1954. These are notoriously tippy and today, bent window triggers are common. I think this was the motivation for the short trigger, through body mounting bolt version in the mid 50s. Mine are mounted in the convenient position, but I always use the far more stable alloy ESGE kick stands on my bikes.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e91da1cb51.jpg

gster 01-11-19 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20742635)
This is how I mount mine as well. That's why I prefer the older style with the longer trigger. Apparently, SA was aware of the problem of their triggers getting bent from leaning bikes against walls back in 1939 as they issued this recommendation for "Flick trigger" mounting. They advise mounting them far back on the handlebar to what I consider an inconvenient position. Things got even worse when Raleigh introduced their "light alloy prop stand" in 1954. These are notoriously tippy and today, bent window triggers are common. I think this was the motivation for the short trigger, through body mounting bolt version in the mid 50s. Mine are mounted in the convenient position, but I always use the far more stable alloy ESGE kick stands on my bikes.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e91da1cb51.jpg

Ideally, it should be positioned so that you needn't remove your hand from the grips in order to shift.
At least that's my style.

clubman 01-11-19 09:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20742315)
Does anyone know why some of the SA triggers have the text upside down?

I thought it was for easier viewing with drop bars.

Buellster 01-11-19 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 20742440)
Another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/790/40...4b16d54f_z.jpg

(also, did you see that I PM'd ya, @Buellster ?)

Now that makes sense! I'm gonna need to move mine to that position and see how it feels.
I did!
Unfortunately, I'm out of town that weekend. Thanks for the invite though! And please let me know the next time one is coming up. I'll feel like I belong now that my old style trigger is back in place Haha

alexander55 01-11-19 10:35 AM

I have had the pleasure of doing Lake Pepin several times. Wonderful event.
I ride my Phillips 3-speed resto/mod up there.
I have a wonderfully original 72 Superbe in my collection as well.

alexander55 01-11-19 10:37 AM

Forgot to add the pictures.. Here’s the Phillips.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...426ecb84f.jpeg

adventurepdx 01-11-19 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20742833)
Now that makes sense! I'm gonna need to move mine to that position and see how it feels.
I did!
Unfortunately, I'm out of town that weekend. Thanks for the invite though! And please let me know the next time one is coming up. I'll feel like I belong now that my old style trigger is back in place Haha

No worries, I will!

dweenk 01-11-19 03:11 PM

Quoted wrong post.

dweenk 01-11-19 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20742539)
Shiny!!! Really nice period piece, an Austrian Sears bike that is probably overpriced.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...792076190.html

SEARS road/commuter classic - $299 (Richmond)


https://images.craigslist.org/00f0f_...km_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/01414_...z4_600x450.jpg

https://images.craigslist.org/00X0X_...ka_600x450.jpg

bicycle type: other
condition: like new
frame size: other
make / manufacturer: SEARS
wheel size: other/unknown
Sears Made in Austria bicycle

Steal lugged frame
Original Royce headlight and taillight system/generator
Dual side baskets over rear wheel
Richmond va licence plate
VCU 1975 Bike Registration
3 speed internal rear hub.
Original fenders, pedals, pump
Tires and tubes have been replaced, in great shape no dry-rot.

Great bike for back to school or commuter classic.

Please text or email, or leave a voicemail. Thanks, Dak

Way, way too pricey although it is a nice example.

Slowride79 01-12-19 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20741795)
I'm near Houston Gulf Coast. Some people say the prices here are inflated because of all the oil money awashed in this region.

I'm selling my '65 sports 21" ( as I also have a '63). All original, fully serviced including all bearings replaced/repacked, SA AW hub completely disassembled, fully cleaned, polished, waxed but I'm here in Detroit. Not sure if allowed to post link ; on local CL as intended to sell locally but may consider shipping. I can sympathize with you as I had to drive >300mile round trip as no local supply. As far as I an tell , in those days , this was resolutely schwinn country. Cheers, Steve

SirMike1983 01-12-19 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20742635)
This is how I mount mine as well. That's why I prefer the older style with the longer trigger. Apparently, SA was aware of the problem of their triggers getting bent from leaning bikes against walls back in 1939 as they issued this recommendation for "Flick trigger" mounting. They advise mounting them far back on the handlebar to what I consider an inconvenient position. Things got even worse when Raleigh introduced their "light alloy prop stand" in 1954. These are notoriously tippy and today, bent window triggers are common. I think this was the motivation for the short trigger, through body mounting bolt version in the mid 50s. Mine are mounted in the convenient position, but I always use the far more stable alloy ESGE kick stands on my bikes.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e91da1cb51.jpg

That's a great picture from the early days of the flick shifter. Sturmey had the earlier bar-mounted "barrel" shifter, but the flick was a jump forward for them from the quadrant. Today, the quadrant shifter (and the barrel shifter) sell for high prices, but the old "upside down flick shifter" is still the best shifter Sturmey produced. The 1940s-50s era ones are my favorites (though my avatar is an old quadrant, go figure).

BigChief 01-12-19 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20744229)
That's a great picture from the early days of the flick shifter. Sturmey had the earlier bar-mounted "barrel" shifter, but the flick was a jump forward for them from the quadrant. Today, the quadrant shifter (and the barrel shifter) sell for high prices, but the old "upside down flick shifter" is still the best shifter Sturmey produced. The 1940s-50s era ones are my favorites (though my avatar is an old quadrant, go figure).

I have some more detailed pictures, from all sides of this style shifter on my SA Shifters Flickr album.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150931...57686501575124

gster 01-12-19 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20744299)
I have some more detailed pictures, from all sides of this style shifter on my SA Shifters Flickr album.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150931...57686501575124

Nice collection.

PeterLYoung 01-14-19 09:36 AM

1957 Ladies P2 Sports Roadster Serial No K651746
 

Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20722261)

Just acquired this 1957 Philips Step Thru Ladies bicycle with Sturmey Archer 3 Speed. It is definitely pre 1960 when Philips were take-over by Raleigh as the Badges state made in Birmingham which would be the Philips Factory in Credenda Works in Smethwick. After Raleigh took over it changed to Nottingham. I don't know where this bike has been but it is in remarkable condition and should clean up well needing no refinishing at all just a good clean and wax polish, maybe new brake and 3 Speed cables.
My wife is going to love this bike!!!!.

I have now stripped this bicycle to last nut & bolt (except wheels). I checked the Philips Catalogue in Veteran Cycle Club's Library for 1957 and established the bike is a P2 Ladies Sports Light Roadster (The Mens version was a P1) On inspection I have found there is a problem with the SW 3 Speed which is missing the 'telltale' and needs to be dismantled to clean and inspect anyway so I will know more once it is apart. I have obtained two further 1957 SW Hubs, one in apparent good condition and one not so but can be raided for spare parts, I also found a NOS Telltale and gear change spindle on eBay which is on its way currently (I was amazed to find this).

I cannot believe how little the bike has suffered considering its age, the paintwork has only minor damage typical on a bike used for a few years only. It must have been stored in a very dry place. for example, the inside on the mudguards had a small amount of dirt which when wiped off revealed the paint full intact, I removed the Chrome Nose from the front mudguard to de rust the inside. Everything dismantled easily and a couple of days soaking in white vinegar has cleaned all the chrome and removed any rust.

The headstock, pedals and bottom bracket bearings were completely dried out with the remains of the grease falling out as dust, fortunately it has not been ridden in this condition as the bearing surfaces are all good and will be re-used with new balls.

The brake cables are beyond redemption however and replacements are unobtainable in my searches so far here in USA but in February I return to the UK and I expect my local bike shop there will be able to find some with correct nipples. I have already found a NOS 3 Speed cable and replacement Sturmey Archer gear changer as the one on the bike has been badly bent & damaged from leaning against a wall as illustrated in recent discussion above.

I have compounded the frame and the paint which was flat and dull has come up well and nows has a shine, I was careful not to damage the transfers so those areas are not a shiny as areas that had none but I am happy with how it looks. I plan to clear lacquer the painted parts which should improve its looks and protect the paint and transfers. I will also inject the frame with 'J. P. Weigles - Bicycle Frame Saver' as the climate here in North Carolina is very humid and it will prevent internal corrosion of the frame.

The wheels I have not touched yet but they only have minor pitting of the chrome rims and hubs are in nice condition. I will deal with them when I come back to USA in May/June


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7c84e4d69.jpg

Ready to start dismantling
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2773878ac.jpg

The Paint was dull, compounded as much as I dare without losing transfers.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7f352d67e.jpg

Headstock polished up OK.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4963e66702.jpg

These were partially lost when I received the bike.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d46cec0d7a.jpg

Down tube transfer survived very light compounding OK.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06ebabff53.jpg

As also the Philips Transfer.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37a183ef79.jpg

Serial Number K651746.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a6f1c7759d.jpg

Bottom Bracket (dry as a bone) surprisingly is fine and re usable. Original Philips axle.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...508546e58b.jpg

The chrome has survived in remarkable condition, 2 days in white vinegar has removed corrosion.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89927f94bd.jpg

mudguards & chain guard ready for compounding have virtually no rust, inside or out.

BigChief 01-14-19 04:49 PM

That looks like it's going to turn out really nice. Good job! Sometimes getting the correct cables can be tricky. Custom cables can be made if you have any problems finding originals.

gster 01-14-19 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20747176)
I have now stripped this bicycle to last nut & bolt (except wheels). I checked the Philips Catalogue in Veteran Cycle Club's Library for 1957 and established the bike is a P2 Ladies Sports Light Roadster (The Mens version was a P1) On inspection I have found there is a problem with the SW 3 Speed which is missing the 'telltale' and needs to be dismantled to clean and inspect anyway so I will know more once it is apart. I have obtained two further 1957 SW Hubs, one in apparent good condition and one not so but can be raided for spare parts, I also found a NOS Telltale and gear change spindle on eBay which is on its way currently (I was amazed to find this).

I cannot believe how little the bike has suffered considering its age, the paintwork has only minor damage typical on a bike used for a few years only. It must have been stored in a very dry place. for example, the inside on the mudguards had a small amount of dirt which when wiped off revealed the paint full intact, I removed the Chrome Nose from the front mudguard to de rust the inside. Everything dismantled easily and a couple of days soaking in white vinegar has cleaned all the chrome and removed any rust.

The headstock, pedals and bottom bracket bearings were completely dried out with the remains of the grease falling out as dust, fortunately it has not been ridden in this condition as the bearing surfaces are all good and will be re-used with new balls.

The brake cables are beyond redemption however and replacements are unobtainable in my searches so far here in USA but in February I return to the UK and I expect my local bike shop there will be able to find some with correct nipples. I have already found a NOS 3 Speed cable and replacement Sturmey Archer gear changer as the one on the bike has been badly bent & damaged from leaning against a wall as illustrated in recent discussion above.

I have compounded the frame and the paint which was flat and dull has come up well and nows has a shine, I was careful not to damage the transfers so those areas are not a shiny as areas that had none but I am happy with how it looks. I plan to clear lacquer the painted parts which should improve its looks and protect the paint and transfers. I will also inject the frame with 'J. P. Weigles - Bicycle Frame Saver' as the climate here in North Carolina is very humid and it will prevent internal corrosion of the frame.

The wheels I have not touched yet but they only have minor pitting of the chrome rims and hubs are in nice condition. I will deal with them when I come back to USA in May/June


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7c84e4d69.jpg

Ready to start dismantling
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2773878ac.jpg

The Paint was dull, compounded as much as I dare without losing transfers.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7f352d67e.jpg

Headstock polished up OK.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4963e66702.jpg

These were partially lost when I received the bike.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d46cec0d7a.jpg

Down tube transfer survived very light compounding OK.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06ebabff53.jpg

As also the Philips Transfer.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37a183ef79.jpg

Serial Number K651746.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a6f1c7759d.jpg

Bottom Bracket (dry as a bone) surprisingly is fine and re usable. Original Philips axle.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...508546e58b.jpg

The chrome has survived in remarkable condition, 2 days in white vinegar has removed corrosion.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89927f94bd.jpg

mudguards & chain guard ready for compounding have virtually no rust, inside or out.

Nice looking project.
Didn't know about the vinegar trick..
I'll give it a try.

BigChief 01-14-19 08:11 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20748179)
Nice looking project.
Didn't know about the vinegar trick..
I'll give it a try.

Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.

gster 01-14-19 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20748283)
Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.

Good advice, as always.

PeterLYoung 01-15-19 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20748283)
Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.

Hi Big Chief: You mention repairing the Shifter, thank you, unfortunately it is very badly bent on the front face, so much so that the engraved plate is badly bent and the pallet behind has a double kink. Overall too much damage to achieve a presentable result, even if I totally dismantled it to separate the plates to try and straighten the front plate. I have obtained an NOS claiming to be of 1950's vintage but not quite identical to the one that came with the bike. I have another good condition one that has been posted to my UK address, not so good condition as the NOS one but does look identical to the one that came with the bike and could well be acceptable to use..
What I need to do is determine what is the correct shifter for this bike, there seems to be plenty around of various vintages so I will research this area, though I hardly think the shifter on the bike was replaced at any point in the past.

PeterLYoung 01-15-19 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20747948)
That looks like it's going to turn out really nice. Good job! Sometimes getting the correct cables can be tricky. Custom cables can be made if you have any problems finding originals.

Hi Big Chief: My local bike store has been trying to help with the cables, the ones one the bike are 7.2mm Dia X 6.5mm Long but the nearest size nipples they can obtain are 7mm Dia X 6mm Long.
This is pretty close but they are sloppy in the hand lever and the cable is thinner 1.5mm so does not locate well in the outgoing slot. The original cable is 2mm Dial. My local bike dealer says my original cables are closer to Motorcycle cables, that might be route to explore.
I think perhaps I will stand a better chance in UK where these bikes are more common so I will give that a try and if I fail I will have to use what is available here which will work but is a sloppy rather than a tight fit which grates with me. Your suggestion re 'custom cables' I might explore if all else fails.

paulb_in_bkln 01-15-19 05:32 PM

Hello again! Wow, this thread is a busy place. I've been lurking but not posted for a long time. I met a little discouragement on my three-speed projects is why. But: maybe prospects have improved and a three-speed project that's been postponed for, like, two years might get underway again soon. Also, I did finally sort out the shifting problems with my Rudge, by resetting and tightening the pulley and fulcrum stop. I also broke down the hub again but I have a feeling that was unnecessary. What I'm happy about is I took off the fenders and chainguard and added a rear rack and new rubber grips and entered the bike into daily commuter and around-the-city service. Not on rain days, of course. Also I opened up the bottom bracket and cleaned it up from the non-drive side and poked in new grease with a stir stick. The cotter pin on the drive side is frozen and would need to be drilled to remove it, and I don't feel like doing that just yet. I bought a little original lockring wrench, sized to fit a mini saddle bag, off ebay. It was pricey for what it is but with the help of a few taps of a hammer I can get enough torque to tighten sufficiently or loosen the lock ring. Here's a picture--not a beauty pageant winner but neither a garage queen. Maybe in the spring CR18s. Right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a resumption of work on Three-Speed Project X.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a43be400f6.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 01-15-19 05:35 PM

PS It continues to amaze and even chagrin me somewhat the nice old Raleighs many of you folks can pick up in second cities for such reasonable prices. Here, you can't get a rideable Sports for under $150, that I can see, and even at that price if it has steel rims they will be pretty rusted out.

56ford 01-16-19 12:39 PM

A couple vintage 3 speeds on CL here locally (St. Louis, MO)
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d/saint-louis-the-aberdale-feather/6778432576.html

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d/saint-ann-1930s-to-40s-dunelt-bicycle/6772024492.html

paulb_in_bkln 01-17-19 09:48 AM

This must have been covered already, but I can't remember the answer. When the SA hubs came from the factory, was there grease on the bearings or did SA intend for those to be lubed by oil dripped into the oil port? I use grease on the bearings when I service a hub. Can't see the harm.


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