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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 09-24-19 06:14 AM

Re: My Failed Derailleur Project
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...09e2aeb7f9.jpg
I now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...
I'd set the derailleur up with the SA throttle shifter.
Like a regular trigger it has a stop (indexed) and I thought
that the amount of travel would work the derailleur.
It didn't...
The shifter continued past the first stop pushing the derailleur
too far into the spokes.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6f5367114.jpg

I may re visit or wait for a proper vintage 2 cog derailleur
to show up.

Ged117 09-24-19 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21135384)
So Sun Ringle is no longer bringing in the 40 hole version of their CR18 650a rim. So much for those AW hubs I've been stockpiling. I'd call this extremely bad news.

That is bad news. I was planning to build a new wheelset for my Superbe in a year or two with those to lighten it up and make it ready for another few decades of service.

jackbombay 09-24-19 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21135854)
I now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...

It looks like there are limit screws on that derraileur like modern derraileurs, were those adjusted when the derraileur was installed?

gster 09-24-19 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21135891)
It looks like there are limit screws on that derraileur like modern derraileurs, were those adjusted when the derraileur was installed?

No, not really..
The stop screw wouldn't reach long enough anyway
and it wouldn't hit anything in that short amount of travel.

curbtender 09-24-19 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21135902)
No, not really..
The stop screw wouldn't reach long enough anyway
and it wouldn't hit anything in that short amount of travel.

Time for a longer screw.

gster 09-24-19 10:23 AM


Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 21136120)
Time for a longer screw.

Yes, a longer screw indeed.....

Iron Horse 09-24-19 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 21134500)
I think it's kind of COOL! I didn't realize Raleigh was still making 3 speeds, and a modernized one at that. Let us know how you like it. :thumb:

Thanks! I didn't either. Just found it by accident. Then trying to find one was a bit of a challenge.
Other than needing to be geared down, currently a 42/18. I plan on dropping to a 42/20 this weekend if all goes well.
The chain stays come out rather abruptly, then run back to the dropouts. The way my feet sit on the pedals, I am occasionally hitting the chain stays with my heels. So I need to train myself to kick my heels out a bit. Something interesting, I have several bikes with Shimano 3 speeds, and to downshift, you roll the shifter forward, and first is the default "no tension" gear (I suppose so that if your shifter fails, you can get anywhere, just slowly). The Sturmey archer is opposite. Rolling back the shifter downshifts, and the default "no tension" gear is 3rd or high gear. That would be bad if you're on a hill and the shifter broke.
I do enjoy the bike, it rides nice, and has a good balance to it. If I had the choice to do it again, I would, but just with a medium frame instead of large. No clearance. Stops are done with some forethought...


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21134353)
I like that shade of green. It looks very similar to my bike painted the Raleigh Green of 1950.

I like your bike. I would like to have one in that shade of green. However I am partial to green :D


Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 21134502)
I see they have the shifter mounted under the brake lever. I wonder how well that worked.

I actually moved the shifter to the other side of the brake lever. It looks a bit wierd, but it works fine, and with it like this, I can get to the set screws, which before I could not.


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 21135353)
According to this amazon ad, 700x45c.
https://www.amazon.com/Raleigh-Bikes.../dp/B07BBPKD83

You are correct, sir. The tires are 700x45c. In some shade of brown. It does compliment the bike well though.

I think the only thing this bike lacks, is a rear rack in the same anodized(?) copper as the handlebars. I like the handlebars, but without something at the other end of the bike the same color, the bike looks (to me) a bit unbalanced color wise.

Salubrious 09-24-19 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21135057)
Ah, sorry about that! I do see that Velocity is making a 650B caliper-brake compatible rim in 40-hole drilling:

https://www.velocityusa.com/product/...liffhanger-584

Only comes in black, however, and about $67 per rim in the US.

But!! Tubeless ready! Tubeless is so much easier to deal with than inner tubes. If you get a puncture, just move the hole to the bottom until it heals. Or patch it in situ on the bike. I might have to pick up a set.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21135902)
No, not really..
The stop screw wouldn't reach long enough anyway
and it wouldn't hit anything in that short amount of travel.

Wouldn't the thing to do be just set it up so when the lever was pulled as far as it would go it was enough to do the shift but no more? Pretty easy solution...

paulb_in_bkln 09-24-19 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21135823)
Looks like those are readily available:

V good to know. I was thinking for the spring to upgrade my Rudge to modern wheels. Thanks.

clubman 09-24-19 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21136642)



Wouldn't the thing to do be just set it up so when the lever was pulled as far as it would go it was enough to do the shift but no more?

You'd still have to set the other limit screw to stop throwing the chain off the freewheel into the frame.

Bomarc 09-25-19 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21135854)
Re: My Failed Derailleur Project
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...09e2aeb7f9.jpg
I now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...
I'd set the derailleur up with the SA throttle shifter.
Like a regular trigger it has a stop (indexed) and I thought
that the amount of travel would work the derailleur.
It didn't...
The shifter continued past the first stop pushing the derailleur
too far into the spokes.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6f5367114.jpg

I may re visit or wait for a proper vintage 2 cog derailleur
to show up.

Not my place to say however; maybe change the throttle shifter for a lever type friction shifter - the friction shifter would provide more of a visual reference as to where the derailleur "is" and be easier to trim. I expect its pretty hard to make small trim adjustments with the throttle shifter especially when going past the 3 speed detents. I know you will get it sorted out and look forward to a ride report. Cheers,

gster 09-25-19 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Bomarc (Post 21137454)
Not my place to say however; maybe change the throttle shifter for a lever type friction shifter - the friction shifter would provide more of a visual reference as to where the derailleur "is" and be easier to trim. I expect its pretty hard to make small trim adjustments with the throttle shifter especially when going past the 3 speed detents. I know you will get it sorted out and look forward to a ride report. Cheers,

All good points.
The problem is trying to marry a vintage British system with a vintage Japanese system.
I'll let this project lie fallow and re visit when I've thought about it a bit more.
The wheel I damaged wasn't from the A list anyway.

Road Fan 09-25-19 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21135854)
Re: My Failed Derailleur Projecthttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...09e2aeb7f9.jpgI now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...
I'd set the derailleur up with the SA throttle shifter.
Like a regular trigger it has a stop (indexed) and I thought
that the amount of travel would work the derailleur.
It didn't...
The shifter continued past the first stop pushing the derailleur
too far into the spokes.


I may re visit or wait for a proper vintage 2 cog derailleur
to show up.

I'm getting a little confused - it happens more these days. First, by "10 speed" you probably mean a vintage friction-shifted 2x5, not a modern indexed 2x10 or 3x10?

In modern bikes I don't think I've ever seen the big plastic (or metal) disks between the cassette and the spokes. We are supposed to adjust the derailleur travel limit screws to make sure the chain does not get driven into the spokes, and in my past 35 years I have not known them to fail, starting with my 2x6 1984 Trek 610. It was also the case 15 years earlier with my first 2x10 Falcon with a Campy Gran Sport. Back then we routinely had the LBS remove those (hence not looking like the dorks we were!), but I still didn't have any chain control faults.

You said (I think!) that you tried to depend on cable/shifter adjustments rather than derailleur travel limit screw setting. In this case a dork disk might help, but it's better just to set your screws correctly and check the derailleur for bending or flexing rather frequently. Or get a frame and derailleur that is higher quality, less flexible.

BTW, I'm not sure that claw is positioning that derailleur where it can shift your new sprockets correctly - it looks like the mech is pretty far behind the rear axle, and I expect that the free length of chain is too long for good shifting without a lot of overshift.

jackbombay 09-25-19 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21136940)
V good to know. I was thinking for the spring to upgrade my Rudge to modern wheels. Thanks.

Will the stock spokes work with those rims?

I have an Raleigh Sports that I'd like to do a light resto mod on, getting rid of the steel rims is on the list, but new spokes and rims gets a bit spendy for a bike that won't get too much use, but I would be happy at $30 per rim if could reuse spokes.

paulb_in_bkln 09-26-19 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21137783)
Will the stock spokes work with those rims?

Yes! It's about the easiest thing you can do so long as none of the spoke/nipple combinations are frozen with age.

paulb_in_bkln 09-26-19 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21134945)
Thanks Nlerner and JaccoW. It was a few days of indecision. I'm not terribly concerned with the bike not having French wheels. I'd like to keep the Mafac brakes, which I understand wouldn't have the required longer reach were I to convert the bike to 650b. The velocity dyad 700c is not cheap, but I plan to keep this one for the long haul as my beat-around four-season commuter. I'm attached to that '53 FW alloy hub - I think it'll look really awesome laced to new wheels. 40h certainly is disappearing, which is a shame since so many of the old Sturmey hubs are 40h. There is an FC close-ratio four speed on eBay right now for a lotta money...

My experience with my Pug AW conversion was that with the stock antirotation washers I couldn't get the rear wheel to stay aligned in the frame. The washers sized for the larger slots on derailleur frames fixed that. Pick up a couple and you might save yourself some annoyance. Cheap at the price, IMO ($5 each, shipping included) on ebay.

paulb_in_bkln 09-26-19 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21134945)
Thanks Nlerner and JaccoW. It was a few days of indecision. I'm not terribly concerned with the bike not having French wheels. I'd like to keep the Mafac brakes, which I understand wouldn't have the required longer reach were I to convert the bike to 650b. The velocity dyad 700c is not cheap, but I plan to keep this one for the long haul as my beat-around four-season commuter. I'm attached to that '53 FW alloy hub - I think it'll look really awesome laced to new wheels. 40h certainly is disappearing, which is a shame since so many of the old Sturmey hubs are 40h. There is an FC close-ratio four speed on eBay right now for a lotta money...

BTW, my conversion was a bit simpler than yours. I already had a couple 700c CR18s sitting around from a few years ago that I'd bought for another project and never used and was able to dig up a 36-hole AW hub. It wasn't even something I'd planned; it just worked out.

jackbombay 09-26-19 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21138985)
Yes! It's about the easiest thing you can do so long as none of the spoke/nipple combinations are frozen with age.

Great!

Thanks!

Ged117 09-26-19 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21139006)
My experience with my Pug AW conversion was that with the stock antirotation washers I couldn't get the rear wheel to stay aligned in the frame. The washers sized for the larger slots on derailleur frames fixed that. Pick up a couple and you might save yourself some annoyance. Cheap at the price, IMO ($5 each, shipping included) on ebay.

Thanks for this. I think I've seen you post this tip elsewhere. The shared experience of your project will really help this winter on my bike.


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21139013)
BTW, my conversion was a bit simpler than yours. I already had a couple 700c CR18s sitting around from a few years ago that I'd bought for another project and never used and was able to dig up a 36-hole AW hub. It wasn't even something I'd planned; it just worked out.

When I found the alloy four-speed, it hadn't occurred to me that finding a 40h rear wheel would be difficult. I'm happy there are options - at least for now. I'll be ordering the rims soon. 40h rear, and the front will depend on whether I want to use a shimano dynamo hub or a Maillard 700 front hub. I'm leaning toward a dynamo system for reliable bright lights, especially during winter.

I've finally managed to get the cable adjustment into spec, so now the Raleigh is running with all three gear options available. I took a 12 mile ride the other day along Ottawa's river paths to celebrate. Since my bike has the Cyclo 3-speed, it was fitted with a triple cog. The big'un is 21T, so that paired with the AG make the bike really enjoyable to ride on the flats or reasonable hills. I'm a little leery of going too hard on the pedals up hills, with the hub components nearing almost 70 years old. This morning I was heading into work on my Voyageur, and a guy passed me headed the other way riding a brand new Raleigh in the same colour as the one posted up thread. I also saw a Raleigh Laurentian parked downtown yesterday (Canadian only model - the hub said 1964).

paulb_in_bkln 09-27-19 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21139350)
When I found the alloy four-speed, it hadn't occurred to me that finding a 40h rear wheel would be difficult.

It's making me rethink accumulating the AWs off the abandoned bikes around here. Unless it's a 36 maybe no point.

gster 09-27-19 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21135344)
Perhaps this one from '54 in the Canadian catalogue on Kurt's Headbadge site.

Just one down from the 531 models.
http://www.kurtkaminer.com/1954raleighcat_can_06_lg.jpg

I think you've found it..
Down tube sticker
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a524bc0e32.jpg
2030 tubing
Colour Royal Carmine Red
Thanks

gster 09-27-19 05:03 PM

Speaking of 26" x 1-1/4" Endrick rims.....
The Canadian/British Mystery bike accepted an older pair of Kenda 27" x 1-3/8" (37-630) tires
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7c21b13e65.jpg
As I've said before, I really like these club bikes.

Ged117 09-27-19 07:30 PM

Hi folks,

I found a blue step through frame Sports locally. The hub is smooth on the top (no pattern on the shell like my spare '79 hub). I'm thinking of a reactivation and restore for my girlfriend since she wants an upright bike for comfy travel. The date on the hub is May 1972. It has the full chain ring, and silver painted front fork. Is there anything I should know about this year? I'd make a quick project of it this winter, rebuild the hub, service the bottom bracket, polish the chrome and paint. I'll post photos if / when I bring it back. It looks like this one, just with silver fork:

https://2whls3spds.files.wordpress.c...coltbasket.jpg

gster 09-28-19 06:55 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21141388)
Hi folks,

I found a blue step through frame Sports locally. The hub is smooth on the top (no pattern on the shell like my spare '79 hub). I'm thinking of a reactivation and restore for my girlfriend since she wants an upright bike for comfy travel. The date on the hub is May 1972. It has the full chain ring, and silver painted front fork. Is there anything I should know about this year? I'd make a quick project of it this winter, rebuild the hub, service the bottom bracket, polish the chrome and paint. I'll post photos if / when I bring it back. It looks like this one, just with silver fork:

https://2whls3spds.files.wordpress.c...coltbasket.jpg

Sounds like it could be a quick turn around on this one.
Silver forks? Could have been replaced?

Ged117 09-28-19 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21141692)
Sounds like it could be a quick turn around on this one.
Silver forks? Could have been replaced?

The seller turned out to be a Raleigh collector. I'm curious to see what else he has. The fork is original. He started taking the paint off with a scotch brite pad with a two tone repaint in mind. I'm going to prep it and then paint it a nice soft white to match the rear fender end. He's had it about ten years and never got around to it. Maybe this one will get a B67 when finished.

gster 09-28-19 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21141918)
The seller turned out to be a Raleigh collector. I'm curious to see what else he has. The fork is original. He started taking the paint off with a scotch brite pad with a two tone repaint in mind. I'm going to prep it and then paint it a nice soft white to match the rear fender end. He's had it about ten years and never got around to it. Maybe this one will get a B67 when finished.

I've seen a few bikes (I have a blue Superbe) that have a silver under coat.

BigChief 09-29-19 05:26 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21141926)
I've seen a few bikes (I have a blue Superbe) that have a silver under coat.

That's the "candy" style paint that got popular in the 60s. They used a silver base paint then sprayed it over with a translucent color. I thought Superbes were always green.

gster 09-29-19 06:01 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21142682)
That's the "candy" style paint that got popular in the 60s. They used a silver base paint then sprayed it over with a translucent color. I thought Superbes were always green.

That's right
Candy apple red on a hot rod!
Here's a red '61 Superbe
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9e934ba136.jpg
And here's my blue '61
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67b8086bae.jpg
I think the white accent on the front tube indicates a Canadian bike.
Made in England for the Canadian market.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6b12fa7a28.jpg
RC serial #
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b02a16b2b.jpg
Hard to see, but a Superbe decal on the downtube.
This bike arrived in a bit of a state having been over-painted blue,
I started to strip it but decided to leave "as is"..
Chrome fork tips as well

gster 09-29-19 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21135344)
Perhaps this one from '54 in the Canadian catalogue on Kurt's Headbadge site.

Just one down from the 531 models.
http://www.kurtkaminer.com/1954raleighcat_can_06_lg.jpg

I should re position the levers and trigger to match this
illustration.
When I got the bike, the front caliper was missing.
The rear caliper was the older style that only accepts the specific Raleigh cable.
Two newer ('70's) calipers were purchased from George.
The front brake required a very specific bevelled bushing to fit onto the front of
the unique forks.
Luckily it was intact on the original back caliper.....

BigChief 09-29-19 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21142695)
That's right
Candy apple red on a hot rod!
Here's a red '61 Superbe
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9e934ba136.jpg
And here's my blue '61
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67b8086bae.jpg
I think the white accent on the front tube indicates a Canadian bike.
Made in England for the Canadian market.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6b12fa7a28.jpg
RC serial #
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b02a16b2b.jpg
Hard to see, but a Superbe decal on the downtube.
This bike arrived in a bit of a state having been over-painted blue,
I started to strip it but decided to leave "as is"..
Chrome fork tips as well

Candy paints, white darts and steering tubes, chrome fork tips...Darn. You Canadians got all the goodies. Here in the US, we had the choice of any color we wanted...as long as it was bronze green.


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