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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

tobukog 02-20-18 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr (Post 20179249)
Wait what's the reasoning here?

It's a joke. People usually fall into one of two camps, with 1/8 being the much larger group as far as I can tell, and it's often harder to find 3/32 in the the sizes you want. Sugino Zen is only 1/8, but my friend put together a special order/ request to have a run of large 3/32 rings. Endurance racers have often tended to favor 3/32. Morelock, who is looking for every last drop of wattage, would probably be better off on a 3/32. I have actually been using an 11 speed chain -- gasp!

Morelock 02-20-18 08:15 AM

I saw Colby Pearce picked up some Zen's in 3/32 the other day (from his instagram)

I'm not hip though... I like my big bulky 1/8 stuff :D Although If I find the "perfect" gear in time I might still end up going to 3/32... (and send it off to Atomic for some coating...)

carleton 02-20-18 08:30 AM

Going 3/32" isn't the end of the world. You just have to buy all of your own stuff new up front (used 3/32" is rare) and you probably won't be able to borrow anything in a pinch. But, borrowing should be rare.

With the chainrings being so big now, the weight savings could be significant.

Morelock 02-20-18 08:36 AM

58/15 is what I'm thinking... but I need to ride it (and make sure it clears my track elite) a good bit to be sure. So currently just need a cheap 1/8 58t :D

SyntaxMonstr 02-20-18 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by Morelock (Post 20179499)
58/15 is what I'm thinking... but I need to ride it (and make sure it clears my track elite) a good bit to be sure. So currently just need a cheap 1/8 58t :D

58 will clear a Track Elite. Friend of mine has a 60 on his.

SyntaxMonstr 02-20-18 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by tobukog (Post 20179436)
It's a joke. People usually fall into one of two camps, with 1/8 being the much larger group as far as I can tell, and it's often harder to find 3/32 in the the sizes you want. Sugino Zen is only 1/8, but my friend put together a special order/ request to have a run of large 3/32 rings. Endurance racers have often tended to favor 3/32. Morelock, who is looking for every last drop of wattage, would probably be better off on a 3/32. I have actually been using an 11 speed chain -- gasp!

Oh, haha, I was wondering if there was some serious science behind it and I was just following dated trends. Thanks for the clarification.

Morelock 02-20-18 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr (Post 20179572)
58 will clear a Track Elite. Friend of mine has a 60 on his.


nice, thanks!

carleton 02-20-18 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr (Post 20179576)
Oh, haha, I was wondering if there was some serious science behind it and I was just following dated trends. Thanks for the clarification.

Some of it is weight. Let's say that a rider is moderately sized and not laying down a lot of torque. They may not need the thicker 1/8" and might appreciate the lighter 3/32".

There was talk of 3/32" providing better feel based on the chain chosen. 3/32" might be more elastic.

This is stuff that I'm recalling from Fixed Gear Fever when it came up. I have no experience with 3/32".

There are some prominent riders (enduros) that use 3/32". I raced with a guy that used 3/32". Strong enduro type, but could also lay down a mean 500M.

It not any worse than 1/8"...just different. A side-grade, I guess.

brawlo 02-20-18 05:32 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20179653)
There are some prominent riders (enduros) that use 3/32". I raced with a guy that used 3/32". Strong enduro type, but could also lay down a mean 500M.

FWIW I believe 9sp is a 3/32 and that is what I use on my trainer bike. I've beat the hell out of 2 bikes running on that gear for about 7 years now, and about a year ago I broke my first chain. Standing and seated starts galore and 100% Kickr efforts too.


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20180271)
FWIW A Fuji Elite will clear at least a 64

https://www.instagram.com/p/BecptrbjqT_

He runs a wide BB, but notes on the FB TS page that there's room to run it with a standard BB.

Clythio 02-20-18 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20179174)
Ummm...were you watching me at the track on Sunday? :foo:

:)
I'm the old guy used to keep soft spinning on easy rollers between efforts, instead of almost sleeping on the ground.
Not sure yet what's right, nowadays...

Monkeyfudger 02-21-18 09:48 AM

https://www.bikerumor.com/2018/02/21...-meter-cranks/

carleton 02-21-18 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by Monkeyfudger (Post 20182009)

It seems that their selling point is the accuracy. No one has complained about SRM's accuracy.

It does offer left and right power measurement, which isn't a big deal. The biggest plus is the user-replaceable battery. The biggest downside seems to be the "< 5s" startup time (per official documentation).

The price is $300 less than SRM.

It seems to use the type of strain gauge that is plopped in the middle of the crank arm. I wonder if this hole in the crank arm affects how much torque the arm can handle before breaking. This might be a concern for the huge sprinters.

https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content...dy-to-race.jpg

I love to see new Track Power Meters on the market.

Monkeyfudger 02-21-18 12:15 PM

Yeah way too rich for me but I thought it was an interesting product non the less after reading your comments ref missing data from standing starts, seems they’ve tried to address this and also recognise that torque is also an important metric to be able to see/record.

Aye the always bang on about accuracy, it’s just something they have to mention to keep people interested.

carleton 02-21-18 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by Monkeyfudger (Post 20182379)
Yeah way too rich for me but I thought it was an interesting product non the less after reading your comments ref missing data from standing starts, seems they’ve tried to address this and also recognise that torque is also an important metric to be able to see/record.

Aye the always bang on about accuracy, it’s just something they have to mention to keep people interested.

When I was looking into making a cycling head unit out of an iPhone, I researched a lot about ANT+ and Bluetooth LE and how it works.

The last power meter that was able to pick up early standing start data was the SRM Wired Track Cranks with PowerControl 5 head unit, using 2 reed switches.

Standing start pickup time has less to do with a head unit "waking up" and more to do with the cranks rotating 2 full rotations (using 1 reed switch). That's how long it takes for a crank to calculate your cadence (time between each rotation). If you can complete 2 full rotations in 1 second, the head unit will start recording then.

2 reed switches helps because instead of 2 rotations being needed, you only need 2 HALF rotations...or 1 rotation :D

But, this doubles your cadence readings which in turn doubles your power readings. So, the head unit has to be smart enough to halve the cadence data THEN calculate the power. SRM used to have a "2 reed switch" check box in its software, but to be compatible with others, it removed this.

So, basically, SRM dummed-down the product to be more compatible :(

carleton 02-21-18 03:37 PM

This is also the result of the road-focus of the power meter products. "Who needs the first 5 seconds of a crit? I'm not even in my other pedal by then! lol..."

If the infocrank were truly making a track PM from the ground up, they would have taken this into consideration. More than half of the track events begin with a standing start.

Monkeyfudger 02-21-18 03:57 PM

Haha, I’ve seen me take longer than that, nothing quite like that blind bit of panic when you fluff clipping in twice...

If they’re always going to rely on Ant+/Bluetooth then a track crank will always be unfit for purpose in my mind unless they do something different with the data. Perhaps a track specific PM as well as broadcasting on Ant+ as it does now should also be storing the data internally and start recording as soon as torque is applied so that torque and power can be analysed later.

jsk 02-21-18 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20182834)
Standing start pickup time has less to do with a head unit "waking up" and more to do with the cranks rotating 2 full rotations (using 1 reed switch). That's how long it takes for a crank to calculate your cadence (time between each rotation). If you can complete 2 full rotations in 1 second, the head unit will start recording then.

2 reed switches helps because instead of 2 rotations being needed, you only need 2 HALF rotations...or 1 rotation :D

That would be true for magnet-based Cadence sensors, but is it true for accelerometer-based cadence? I know some of the pedal-based PM's supposedly record 30+ readings per crank revolution, I don't see why they would need two revolutions to start recording power.

carleton 02-21-18 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by Monkeyfudger (Post 20182888)
Haha, I’ve seen me take longer than that, nothing quite like that blind bit of panic when you fluff clipping in twice...

If they’re always going to rely on Ant+/Bluetooth then a track crank will always be unfit for purpose in my mind unless they do something different with the data. Perhaps a track specific PM as well as broadcasting on Ant+ as it does now should also be storing the data internally and start recording as soon as torque is applied so that torque and power can be analysed later.

Yup. I recall seeing some custom power meters used by the British that were wired.

Wired is the way to go if you really care about scientific levels of data collection. Wireless is simply convenient and easy to install.


Originally Posted by jsk (Post 20182992)
That would be true for magnet-based Cadence sensors, but is it true for accelerometer-based cadence? I know some of the pedal-based PM's supposedly record 30+ readings per crank revolution, I don't see why they would need two revolutions to start recording power.

They may record 30+ times per revolution, but they need a time stamp in order to calculate elapsed time. I believe that time stamp is triggered every revolution. I don't know much about the accelerometer style. But, I'd like to know what is recording 30 times per revolution. Is it the head unit or the cranks? My guess is that they may be recording 30 times per revolution, but only transmitting the average of all 30 every revolution.

The way that many head units calculate cadence is that they receive torque readings every so often:

- 10NM @ 1:00:30
- 11NM @ 1:00:31
- 11NM @ 1:00:32
- 13NM @ 1:00:33

And then it says, "Thanks for the torque! I see that you (cranks) are sending me (head unit) torque every 1 second based on the elapsed time between each reading. I calculate your cadence to be 60RPM! From there I'll take that 60RPM and that torque and calculate your POWER!"

This calculation can be made after 2 readings and updates after every subsequent reading.

carleton 02-21-18 11:26 PM

Ever wonder why some riders race international competition in their national team colors and other race for a pro team? Here's a good explanation why: https://www.beatcycling.club/en/blog...have-achieved/

SyntaxMonstr 02-22-18 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20183713)
Ever wonder why some riders race international competition in their national team colors and other race for a pro team? Here's a good explanation why: https://www.beatcycling.club/en/blog...have-achieved/

Or because their home nations suck! (Not bitter at all that Pakistan screwed me over...) :cry:

It'd actually be really interesting if trade teams got to compete in Olympiad events or world championships. Like yeah, most of them are largely alt-teams for national squads, but you'd get a wider variety of representation from countries that might have promising athletes but no support or programmes in place to send them abroad otherwise.

Morelock 02-23-18 04:35 AM

Saw in my email today that Flo Cycling is going to start offering their 6 / 9 wheels in track configuration. Nice option at that price range.

On an aside... I ordered my front Walker Brothers disc at the end of December... and it still hasn't been shipped. They've had some growing pains/family issues, but we're far enough out now that I am beginning to whine online about it... unfortunate because I really like their discs.

700wheel 02-23-18 08:14 PM

Olympic Speed Skating.
I just saw the 1000m men's race winning time was just under 1m 8s - according to the commentator the guys in this event see 2-1/4 g. In cycling most g-forces are resisted by the saddle whereas in skating all the g-force goes though the legs.

It used to be that speed skating was a perfect winter training for track cyclists (e.e. Heiden, Young) - I do not hear that anymore.

Baby Puke 02-23-18 09:08 PM

Still its of crossover, at least in the Dutch team Laurine Van Riessen is a member of both the Dutch Olympic long track squad and the national sprint team.

zizou 02-26-18 03:02 AM

Apparently this is the new Cervelo T5....not sure if any difference to the GB T5 that was used in Rio? The bars are Hope, nice to see them branching out into track parts - i love their kit for mountain biking.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW4VOmgWkAAIIgY.jpg

Poppit 02-26-18 09:32 AM

3 Attachment(s)
It looks fast

rensho3 02-26-18 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by 700wheel (Post 20187704)
Olympic Speed Skating.
I just saw the 1000m men's race winning time was just under 1m 8s - according to the commentator the guys in this event see 2-1/4 g. In cycling most g-forces are resisted by the saddle whereas in skating all the g-force goes though the legs.

It used to be that speed skating was a perfect winter training for track cyclists (e.e. Heiden, Young) - I do not hear that anymore.

It used to work well for me. I lived I Michigan and the only way to ride a bike was on the old Racermate trainer, which worked quite well. Training in the basement staring at a 12" black and white TV and looking outside through a one of those basement windows that were placed at ground level so that in winter the snow obscured half of the window was just not as much fun as speed skating. Since Milwaukee had to the on 400 meter track, and it was not yet covered over, most of my skating was done on frozen ponds. The tracks were typically 6 laps/mile, and racing was pack style; kind of a scratch race on ice. When watching the pack style race at the Olympics it really back great memories. For me, bike racing in the summer was skating training, not the other way around. Besides riding the bike, we also spend a lot of time in the gym (a guys garage or at the community center) or a field doing dry land efforts. One of the more memorable was when we did broad jumps up Mt. Trashmore in Midland. And yes, it was the pile of stuff left in the dump. In the middle of summer the bonus was that you became insensitized to various odors. Good Times! I still miss it.

Morelock 02-26-18 01:40 PM

Is there going to be a pursuit specific T5?
The pictures above one has an integrated cockpit and Kenny's has a more "normal" stem/bar.

queerpunk 02-26-18 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Morelock (Post 20192534)
Is there going to be a pursuit specific T5?
The pictures above one has an integrated cockpit and Kenny's has a more "normal" stem/bar.

I wondered about that, too - but maybe in the smaller sizes there's no real way to achieve that raised TT/dropped stem detail.

Godsight 02-26-18 06:48 PM

I am counting a 66x14 combo on Laura's bike -__-

I am also of the opinion that smaller frame won't have the dropped stem/headtube junction for engineering reason. Laura Kenny is 5'4''/1.63m so on 48 or 51cm frame.
Meanwhile Katie Archibald is 5'10''/1.78m so probably on 56cm frame.

Also if people are willing to share the source for those pictures I would like to have them. I always love to see track tech on instagram, website or even facebook.

Poppit 02-27-18 01:50 AM


Originally Posted by Godsight (Post 20193190)
I am counting a 66x14 combo on Laura's bike -__-

I am also of the opinion that smaller frame won't have the dropped stem/headtube junction for engineering reason. Laura Kenny is 5'4''/1.63m so on 48 or 51cm frame.
Meanwhile Katie Archibald is 5'10''/1.78m so probably on 56cm frame.

Also if people are willing to share the source for those pictures I would like to have them. I always love to see track tech on instagram, website or even facebook.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gb...hampionships-0



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