Old School Seat Post...
 

I have to admit that some aspects of the vintage road bicycle annoy me greatly. Pedals with traps and straps are not my favorite but they do the job...
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Down tube shifters, in my opinion, are dangerous to use but they do the job...
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But Old School seat posts and the saddle mount assembly = pooey stinko..!
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Once installed and tightened up, a lot, they still tend to rotate and/or rock. What am I doing wrong, if anything, or is this the nature of the beast?

Well Randy, I can't hardly believe you of all people would be asking. That being said I know that when I was a kid with very little wrenching experience, I still got them to hold most of the time.

Now days it seems like the very crappy generic version distort, gall, round off the nuts and suck in general no matter what. I had one on a Brooks that I took to the gym a couple of years ago that I would you on their stationary bikes, it was a PITA but I finally got it down with the right Snap-on wrench that I could get good leverage with and I got practiced at it.

Then came the new Strawberry and I opted for a Brooks version for the chrome steel post and railed B-17 I put on it.

Many commented about how crappy they are as we are doing here.

I took the clamp apart and put anti-seize on the threads and mating surfaces of the bolts and plates, keeping it off the gripping parts of the plates and the SP clamp portion.

Got after it with the same Snap-on wrench and never had it slip a bit. I think you have to get the threads so you can lean on them a ridiculous amount.

This has never slipped at all, yet. ;)

It was all about the chrome.


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Both.

The nature of the beast is that it is limited to angle adjustments in increments of just under 10 degrees (42 grooves on the Brooks versions).

There is a good likelyhood that the angle you want - and try to set - is NOT one of those 42 that allows the grooves to mate, so either it moves slightly into the nearest mating angle as you tighten the nut, or it mashes the points of the grooves together, and quickly becomes loose.

So unless you choose to/are lucky enough to have it work for you where it works for it, you're better off with a micro-adjust, either the Simplex style or a Record style.

I learned one time not to lean over one of those saddle clamps from above and tighten the NDS nut by pulling up. The wrench slipped, and I gave myself a good shot in the mouth.

I have also found that most of these are poorly made and abused so they are doomed to failure. As you know, they are basically a geared interface, radial teeth that should mate with grooves on the other side of the interface. Very shallow and, as said above, only at discreet points such as "just under 10deg". But original manufacture of those teeth and grooves is often poorly done or the teeth are badly damaged with use and so cannot mate with the grooves very well and so it slips. Poor mating at one point weakens the interface so it slips a bit and damages other sectors, so it slips and damages other sectors, until you, practically, have no more than a mashed together fit, no geared engagement. And the tooth/groove engagement is probably not "clocked" the same, side to side, so it's all a fools errand. Scrap.

I have had some success with taking a pretty good clamp apart and dressing all the teeth, all four faces, with a file or a rotary tool to clean up the grooves and teeth. Get rid of any buggered up metal leaving clean ridges. Then put it back together and carefully set the saddle angle you want and tighten it up very tight. Avoid that very first rotation after that as just a bit of rotation will "smear" some metal and start the problem all over again.

Or get a Campy two bolt seat post.

Even on a Brooks saddle clamp the cross bolt is made from some very soft and stretchy material, along with the clamp itself. I replace the bolt with a grade 8 from the hardware store. You can torque it down better on a chrome steel pillar.

All ture. Then again, the third option is an Ideale clamp. Which I guess is technically a micro-adjust, just without an integral post.


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They do suck but they also do wear out. Riding it loose, tightening outside of a notch, etc. I've had a couple that I ended up replacing because they wouldn't tighten properly and many more because they were rusty eyesores. Thankfully I was able to buy a box of 10 new ones for $10.

I've side stepped the issue on '80's bikes by getting Kalloy seat posts if they came with this type of clamp. On my few bikes that have these clamp, I tighten the #$%@ out of it with a pair of open ended wrenches.

Absolutely. Work like a charm.

i really like the TTT seatpost for ease of adjustment with leather saddles. i can get the angle just right quickly without the pain in the *ss of the old 2 bolt campy posts.
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Well, some good information here and @ merziac, I will be the first to admit to not knowing all that much about some things. In this instance, I always used to use the alloy indexed seat posts, be they Campy two bolt or one bolt, or SR or anything similar.

What I am learning from this thread is that the Old School saddle clamp design, at best, is poor from a mechanical point of view. To that add that one must super SUPER tighten the clamping nuts, something that I have been reluctant to do as my training, as a professional mechanic, suggests not over torqueing a fastener.

I also learned that the generic version of the Old School saddle post clamp is not good at all. Name brand versions might prove more worthy for the task I believe that I do have an Ideal clamp or two tucked away. I will find one and consider using it as opposed to the cheap generic no brand one that came with my Torpado. I am not filled with confidence.

The newest, and possibly most enlightening suggestion was offered by Prowler who suggested cleaning and dressing the clamp, then tightening the bejeezus out of the clamp assembly.

You all might be wondering why I am using the Old School saddle clamp to begin with. Simply put, I was hoping to keep my Torpado as original as possible but that goal is, slowly, slipping away from me.

However, for me things have changed a bit over the past few years.

These days, I like to restore (and I mean restore) older school bikes, such as my recently completed entry level Torpado that came originally fitted with the Old School style of seat post and clamp assembly...
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I really like riding this old Torpado but it does have its issues, one of which is the saddle clamp assembly. I just might sand an alloy post down to fit. I have already chosen to swap out the original handlebar for a wider and more comfortable SR offering. Needless to say, for me, original pedals are out of the question - SPD for me, period. And that plastic FRECCIA D’ORO saddle is a real bummer, which will soon be replaced with a Brooks B17.
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The wing nuts are soon to be replaced with quick release Campagnolo hubs and skewers (my hands are not strong enough anymore to tighten up the wing nuts). Lucky me scored the perfect Campy set a few days ago so they will soon be part of the Torpado, along with a late sixties Weinmann alloy rims...
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Changing the hubs will make it possible for me to achieve more suitable gearing for my old arthritic knees. I want to install a Campagnolo Gran Tourismo rear derailler (will not install with the wing nuts in place) which will offer me a wider gear range...
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So, I give up on keep it original and am off to my man cave (really is cave like with a dirt floor, spiders and Canadian Shield earth's crust out cropping) to find and sand down an alloy indexed post to fit. C'est la vie!

There are special wingnuts for the derailleur side, they have a longer shank so the wing clears the knuckle. Do you have one of those?

do you have a link for that? i could use a few of those.

I don't even bother with those old-school steel type seatposts that attach to the saddle, and then the post. They're usually the first thing to go into the donation box, along with kickstands, if any. Hate 'em both like the plague.

Having said that, I recently purchased what must be (to me anyway) the most ridiculous and frustrating seatpost ever, one of the few in 26.4mm I could find that didn't cost a fortune: the Avocet spring-loaded seatpost. Actually, beyond just being ridiculous and frustrating, I think this thing has issues: stripped threading on one of the bolts, and one bolt is too short. From others I have seen online, both bolts should be the same length.

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Well, I bit the bullet and just ordered, through Ebay, a brand new 25.4mm Kalloy seat post from a Canadian supplier. Should be here in less than a year:-)
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They're quite common, have a look on that auction site and you'll see them, not often by themselves, but in sets (3 short/1 long, or one and one, or occasionally two and two).

Well, I'll be darned. I never ever saw a set like this (available on Ebay right now)...
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I agree with the problems with the Old School clamp especially many decades after graduation, though I have a B17 on one without problems yet. But that clamp was saved since around 1970, brightly chromed, and mentions Brooks. But I still try to treat it carefully. With my 1952 Rudge I'd like to keep using what works: hubs, frame/fork, headset, spokes, pedals, and brakes if nothing goes south. I'm upgrading the rims to Wolber Modele 58, bars to a GB Randonneur, brake levers, and possible an alloy AW hub or an alloy FW. What I really don't like in seatposts are the "indexed" one-bolt alloy designs which have tooth jumps that are too big, like the venerable SR LaPrade and its many siblings, so I gravitate toward two-bolt designs line Nitto S-83, S-84, the several old Campy designs, the American Classic, and (now that I know about it) the Avocet. I used Thomsons for a while, but nearly always need more setback than even the Setback model offers. I have a Campy Record carbon indexed 1-bolt and it is probably the best of the 1-bolt posts with finer indexing than nearly all others. It also has a lot of setback.

Randy, if you can hack using the Campy two-bolt, I recommend using those, with the male and female bolt threads cleaned up and the convex threads gently chased. They are not light and not convenient, but once set they keep a position, and they are not indexed so you can adjust by turning the bolts as finely as you can do it. There was a Campy tool that reached up under a Brooks-like saddle, and there's a very similar Park that I think can still be found. I have one, but I bought it in the 1970s or '80s, most likely at a local Performance Bike discount table.

With most saddles I can get a SK 10 mm combination wrench up and over the Campy 10 mm bolt heads. If the side skirts of the particular saddle are especially stiff, as in a brand new B17 or a totally hardened Brooks. A number of leather saddles now, like Brooks Swallows and other Swallow-like saddles have easy bolt access with a Campy two-bolt, but do not have much room underneath to clear the large Campy clamps and the bolt heads. The cycling world needs a re-design of the Campy 2-bolt which either uses underneath bolts or is just a much lower profile design. Maybe Selcof has something that refines the Campagnolo concept?

In defense of the old 2-bolt Campy posts; from someone who once raced. Those 2 bolts were huge blessing if you had to ride big miles and got a saddle sore. Being able to tweak the tilt to get off the sore and a week later, be able to return it exactly. So you needed a "Z" wrench. But you didn't have to invent a way to measure the seat tilt (and have this pre-done because when that sore happens and tomorrow is a race, you aren't inventing tooling. Your creativity just got pulled to bailing out that *ss.)

And no, I never owned a Campy NR post. But my racing bike came with a post that was 2-bolt, same bolt heads. Early on, I "money-ed" in a race and won a very nice Zeus post. Again, same clamp details. (And much lighter!) I also never owned a Brooks saddle; rode Selle Italia so I could use a standard wrench (after a healthy breakfast of patience). But when someone handed me a "Z" to own - 1977 bike racer heaven!

This. Absolutely, 100% this.

The trick to keeping the old-school seatpost clamps working right is to make sure that the OD's of the four toothed surfaces stay concentric as you tighten the clamp, which keeps the teeth fully engaged on both sides.

Before final tightening, I often have to tap/whack one of the circular pieces with a small hammer to force it back into concentricity with it's mating part.
This has to correct on both sides, as each side has a pair of toothed mating surfaces.

Luckily, these parts have those round OD surfaces to give visual (or by feel if working in poor light) indication of toothed parts not aligned concentrically. It helps that these parts seem to be generally made to very good tolerances!
The aligned parts suddenly start working right if everything stays concentric as you do the final tightening.


Another tip when working with these (changing a saddle usually) is to slide out the bolt just far enough to release one of the toothed clamp "ears", then install the clamp assembly to one rail, then insert the loose toothed ear in the saddle and then force the clamp in to complete the "sandwich". Then install the outer ear (without teeth) and push the bolt through, then secure the nut.

I've fitted many hundreds of these things and they don't bother me any more. Oddly enough, I almost always am able to get the tilt to be acceptable, at least within modest standards.

I can't understand why people get their knickers in a twist about adjusting a Campagnolo 2-bolt post (Record 1044). All it takes is a long 10 mm wrench with a 12-point offset box end -- mine's by Mac Tools. Wrench access from the rear of the saddle, between the rails (B17 in my case, with a saddle bag mounted to the loops) and, having gotten the saddle in "the ballpark" by hand, do the front bolt with the wrench handle angled down, and then turn over wrench and do the rear bolt with wrench handle angled up EDIT: work each bolt with the wrench handle angled upwards from the box end -- but if there's no bag on the saddle you can flip the wrench over for the rear bolt, if you prefer. With this approach, you can do one "notch" in the box end for each pass on a bolt. I put a finger over the top of the box end to keep it fully engaged to the hex head of the bolt. Never had a problem, and have done it on the road plenty of times (said wrench fits into said saddle bag, Acorn M/L no longer offered, apparently). No lifting of skirts or zee-shaped instruments necessary at all.
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10 mm wrench about 6-1/4" or 160 mm long
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Offset angle on head
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Engaged to front bolt head
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Engaged to rear bolt head

I don't see why this wouldn't work on a Brooks Pro, or a Selle Italia Turbo, the other two types of saddle I've ridden; they don't even have bag loops.

My first "serious" bike had a Campagnolo Super Record (single-bolt) post. That was a bear to adjust because no matter how you positioned the saddle, and held it in place while tightening, it moved, tilting either forward or back from where you wanted it. Later, I got the Nitto 626 "Crystal Fellow" single-bolt post, which I found a bit easier to adjust, but still a pain. When I started using the Campagnolo two-bolt post, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Why anyone would use one of those Raleigh types, I have no idea (though there's one or two in my parts inventory). Suntour made two-bolt posts that adjusted from the underside; I have a couple. So did Weyless. Sugino made a "Mighty" Campagnolo 1044 clone, too.

...if god had not wanted me to use a ratcheting box end wrench on these, he would not have dropped one down from Heaven, onto my wrench pegboard. :)