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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Lazyass 01-12-09 10:45 AM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 8164322)
Having ridden tubs since the early 70's, here's how I'm equipped when I'm out: One spare tyre strapped under the saddle. In my back jacket/jersey pocket (in a plastic bag) is: Pressure gauge, CO2 inflator, three bottles, one tube of rim cement (no particular loyalties, currently I'm using Hutchinson, as that's what my nearby favorite lbs carries).

+1. A GPS case works perfect,though I don't bother with a gauge and carry needles/floss just for piece of mind. Rarely have I needed it (never needed to sew on the road). It's nice knowing I will never get a pinch flat, which is 90% of my flats with clinchers.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...g?t=1231779476

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...g?t=1231779511

sykerocker 01-12-09 05:49 PM

I've got my road tool kit split between two ziploc bags: The one is the tyre changing kit, the second is every other tool which theoretically gives me the ability to disassemble and repair the bike along the road except for the bottom bracket and rear cluster. When the two are carried together, they're in a zipper denim bag I sewed up a few years ago. And I'm carrying at least a good handlebar bag, if not the panniers, to bother carrying the full kit.

My long term affair with tubulars is due heavily to the realization that I can swap out a flatted tyre and be back on the road in about a quarter of the time as I can with clinchers - and that's 27x1-1/4's. Don't even ask regarding high pressure 700c clinchers. I tend to snap plastic tyre irons trying to get them off. And end up switching back to the tubular wheels as soon as I get the bike home.

This year, I've decided to give one more try on the clinchers. Well, mountain biking finally worked out after two failures. Ditto, SS/FG's. I dusted off the Bontrager wheels I picked up at Westminster three years ago and put them back on the Fuji Finest (2003), and built the set of clinchers for the Trek 460. Running Hutchinsons on both (mainly because they always seem to be on sale.

I notice, however, that I haven't unglued the tubular wheels for either bike - and probably won't until I get at least six months trouble free service out of the clinchers. Hopefully third time's a charm (once again) but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

sykerocker 01-12-09 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by Geordi Laforge (Post 8166215)
what tires do you use/prefer?

I've been living with Vittoria Rallye 700-23's, and have had excellent luck over the past four years. One puncture per year, and most of the time it's one of the other odd tyres, usually came with a set of wheels, that goes.

What really convinced me on the Rallye was the wreck I had in August 2006 that broke my right wrist. Coming downhill towards my driveway (sharp right turn and steep uphill) at about 20mph, I shifted into low gear while still on the downhill run. The derailleur had a weak lower spring, threw the chain past low gear into the spokes and locked the back wheel. I skidded about fifty feet at which point I was highsided over the bars and landing rather nastily.

Picking myself up and looking at my hand cocked at a very unnatural angle, I then looked over the bike. To my amazement, despite the skid, the rubber had worn through to the kevlar belt, the belt had held, and the tyre still held full pressure. Were it not for the broken wrist, I could have ridden the bike the last .2 mile home without any problem.

I can't ask much more from a tyre. Have stuck with them since, and will usually pick up a spare whenever the local Performance puts them on sale.

Road Fan 01-12-09 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 8166091)
I apologize in advance if this has been asked (too many pages), but I want to try Tufo tape for the first time. Do I need to have the old regular glue completely removed from the rims first, or can it be left on?

You can leave it on as long as it's not too lumpy.

Road Fan 01-12-09 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 8169658)
I've been living with Vittoria Rallye 700-23's, and have had excellent luck over the past four years. One puncture per year, and most of the time it's one of the other odd tyres, usually came with a set of wheels, that goes.

What really convinced me on the Rallye was the wreck I had in August 2006 that broke my right wrist. Coming downhill towards my driveway (sharp right turn and steep uphill) at about 20mph, I shifted into low gear while still on the downhill run. The derailleur had a weak lower spring, threw the chain past low gear into the spokes and locked the back wheel. I skidded about fifty feet at which point I was highsided over the bars and landing rather nastily.

Picking myself up and looking at my hand cocked at a very unnatural angle, I then looked over the bike. To my amazement, despite the skid, the rubber had worn through to the kevlar belt, the belt had held, and the tyre still held full pressure. Were it not for the broken wrist, I could have ridden the bike the last .2 mile home without any problem.

I can't ask much more from a tyre. Have stuck with them since, and will usually pick up a spare whenever the local Performance puts them on sale.

I haven't had any such severe crashes, but I think Rallye's feel decent, especially in the 23 mm.

JohnDThompson 01-12-09 10:13 PM

Glue
 

Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 8166091)
I apologize in advance if this has been asked (too many pages), but I want to try Tufo tape for the first time. Do I need to have the old regular glue completely removed from the rims first, or can it be left on?

I usually remove it if I'm using tape, but I have the World's Fastest glue removal system: brass wire wheel on a bench grinder:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/rim-cleaner.jpg

Here's the "before" picture:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/rim-before.jpg

And after less less than a minute on the wheel:

http://os2.dhs.org/~john/rim-after.jpg

Best of all, not noxious solvents and no tiresome scrubbing!

urodacus 01-12-09 10:32 PM

i tried the tape for a while, and found it too much of a pain to remove the residue later when changing tires, especially after a flat, but also just with routine changes. it also didn't glue close enough to the edges of the rim, and you really need to get close to the edges to stop the tire from rolling off. plus it's a pain to carry a new tape as well as the spare tire.... my kit for rides over 50 miles is a spare tire under the seat, a plastic tire iron, a half tube of glue, and a minipump. less than 50 mile trips i just ride home on a flat, or catch a cab.

if you do decide to use it, you should at least remove the rough lumps of old glue but it doesn't need to be 100% clean.

lotek 01-13-09 08:23 AM

for tire sealant/flat prevention the Vittoria pit stop is pretty good and holds at pressure higher
than 70PSI (tufo sealant begins to squirt out the hole above 70PSI).
I recommend learning how to wipe tires, saved me more than a few flats.

If you're going to use Tufo tape please don't use the 'regular' stuff. Oh it works well enough
it just melts at high temps, oozes out from under the tire and attracts all sorts of road debris,
it's also a PITA to remove. Use the extreme tape, you'll be happier for it.

I use either Continental glue as that's what the LBS has, or Pana (nice clear glue).

Marty

Lazyass 01-13-09 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 8171021)
I usually remove it if I'm using tape, but I have the World's Fastest glue removal system: brass wire wheel on a bench grinder:

I've never bothered trying to remove all the glue from my rims, but that's a good idea. Don't have a bench grinder, but I have a dremel tool with wire wheels. Think I'll try it.

Old Fat Guy 01-13-09 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 8173427)
I've never bothered trying to remove all the glue from my rims, but that's a good idea. Don't have a bench grinder, but I have a dremel tool with wire wheels. Think I'll try it.

You will go through a zillion Dermel wire brushes and waste a good deal of your life in the process.

Try a drill motor with a BRASS wire brush.

steppinthefunk 01-13-09 02:32 PM

Here's a tip:
Use Tubular tire glue to keep your suction cup accessories sticking on your shower tile. It has been working good for me in the bathroom so far but for some reason it doesn;t work too well for sticking my GPS unit in to the car window.

Road Fan 01-13-09 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by ultraman6970 (Post 8156834)
What is wrong with it? the hump or the discoloration? I don't know that well the meaning of the word lump and the dictionary is quite vague.

If the problem it is the hump, it is super clear to me that the tubular it is not in the right position. Look at the valve. Take the tubular off the rim and re glue it. Done.

I see that apparently you got a flat right there nearby the valve stem. If that is part of your problem, just unsew it (the sew up got saw), and sew up that part of the tubular really well (15 minutes as much).

If the problem it is the discoloration and dryness in the lateral walls of the tubular, thats because the tubular is simply old. I have used even older tubulars, you shouldnt have a problem unless the road band is pretty old too.

Thanks.

I agree with Ultraman. You have a collectible, excellent, and potentially expensive to replace tire there. I would at least pull the rim tape in the affected area and inspect the sewing. Look at the sewing in a non-affected area as well to see what it's supposed to look like. If the seam is not butted back together, see if all the thread holes are intact. If they are, just carefully snip out the repair thread, order one fo those Velox tubular repair sets, and use the Velox needle and thread to sew it back up tight. You will need to lock the seam so it doesn't pull loose. You should have decent results using Jevelot to glue the rim tape back on. If the casing is failing, I'd expect to see a lump in one side or other of the tire, not a general swelling like your tire is showing.

For the dryness on the sidewalls, use the Jevelot. In a well-ventilated area, the stuff stinks, IMO.

Road Fan

cb400bill 02-06-09 11:31 AM

How much cement/glue do I need to order for 2 new tires plus a spare?

I can order the Continental 25g tube for $3.30 or the Vittoria .25 liter tin for $11.19 or the Continental 350g tin for $16.77.

USAZorro 02-06-09 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by cb400bill (Post 8316640)
How much cement/glue do I need to order for 2 new tires plus a spare?

I can order the Continental 25g tube for $3.30 or the Vittoria .25 liter tin for $11.19 or the Continental 350g tin for $16.77.

Two of the 25g tubes would cover three tires - with a bit to spare. I still use 3M FasTack. I don't ride hard enough to roll a tire though. :o

cb400bill 02-06-09 11:36 AM

I admit I am not great at the metric system.

How does 25g compare to .25 liters? Isn't one a weight measurement and the other a volume measurement?

OLDYELLR 02-06-09 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by cb400bill (Post 8316668)
How does 25g compare to .25 liters? Isn't one a weight measurement and the other a volume measurement?

A cup is .25 litres and 25 grams would be less than an ounce. i.e. about 1/10th the amount. The metric system is so easy there is nothing to learn. :)

Road Fan 02-06-09 12:18 PM

The tin contains at least 10 times what one tube contains. I know because I have them both on my shelf.

You can't compare 25 g of something with 0.25 liters of something to see which is bigger, unless you also talk about the density (mass per unit of volume) of that something, in this case, glue.

Oldyellr, I wish what you said was true, I wouldn't have needed to go to school.

cb400bill 02-06-09 12:45 PM

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to order 3 of the tubes.

OLDYELLR 02-06-09 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 8316919)
You can't compare 25 g of something with 0.25 liters of something to see which is bigger, unless you also talk about the density (mass per unit of volume) of that something, in this case, glue.

Oldyellr, I wish what you said was true, I wouldn't have needed to go to school.

No, I was just approximating. While a millilitre of water weighs a gram, that much glue would be a bit less, maybe 0.7 grams.

In the metric system everything is very logical and orderly. (Doesn't the freezing point of water at 0 make more sense than 32 and the boiling point at 100 make more sense than 212?) I spent my youth learning there are 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 220 yards in a furlong and 8 furlongs in a mile. In the metric system all you need to know is the meaning of prefixes like micro, milli, kilo, etc. Of course, I often have to convert those back to English to quantify them. :(

Of course, you might also say, "A pint's a pound the world around". :D

Actually, we who work with bikes have been exposed to the metric system longer than the average joe on the street.

Road Fan 02-06-09 02:27 PM

Last time I bought a pint in London, UK it was about two pounds!

Road Fan 02-06-09 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by cb400bill (Post 8317116)
Thanks guys. I think I'm going to order 3 of the tubes.

Don't take my number of 10 to the bank! I'm sitting at work knowing my tin and tubes are on my basement shelf in the Bike Junk Room. I found the price per tire install to be much lower for the tin of Vittoria, even at LBS prices. I just don't remember all the details.

I'm the kind of engineer who remembers how everything works, but doesn't memorize the details, at least not after I need them. I also think the Vittoria tin had a mass printed on teh label as well. If not, use Oldyellr's number of 0.7 g/milliliter (the 0.25 liter tin holds 175 grams, which is 7 tubes at 25 grams per tube). So I'm even wrong about the 10.

cb400bill 02-06-09 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 8316651)
Two of the 25g tubes would cover three tires - with a bit to spare. I still use 3M FasTack. I don't ride hard enough to roll a tire though. :o


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 8317795)
Don't take my number of 10 to the bank! I'm sitting at work knowing my tin and tubes are on my basement shelf in the Bike Junk Room. I found the price per tire install to be much lower for the tin of Vittoria, even at LBS prices. I just don't remember all the details.

I'm the kind of engineer who remembers how everything works, but doesn't memorize the details, at least not after I need them. I also think the Vittoria tin had a mass printed on teh label as well. If not, use Oldyellr's number of 0.7 g/milliliter (the 0.25 liter tin holds 175 grams, which is 7 tubes at 25 grams per tube). So I'm even wrong about the 10.

USAZorro stated that two 25g tubes should be enough for 3 tires so I just added one more for insurance.

sciencemonster 02-06-09 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro (Post 8316651)
Two of the 25g tubes would cover three tires - with a bit to spare. I still use 3M FasTack. I don't ride hard enough to roll a tire though. :o

Wow, that much glue? Really? Are you sure? I guess I better redo my wheels. I was getting the exact opposite - I did two tires with about 2/3 a tube of glue. Hasn't fallen off in a couple weeks...

I did my first tire with a little more than a 1/2 tube, and it squeezed out all over the place and made a giant mess. That's why I cut back.

JohnDThompson 02-06-09 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by cb400bill (Post 8316668)
I admit I am not great at the metric system.

How does 25g compare to .25 liters? Isn't one a weight measurement and the other a volume measurement?

Grams are mass, not weight. Liters are volume. Comparison is like apples and oranges unless there's more information. E.g. 0.25L of water at STP will have a mass of 250g, or 10 times the 25g in your exmple.

Road Fan 02-07-09 09:57 PM

I can end one argument, at least. I just looked at my tin of Vittoria and a tube of Conti. The tube is marked 25 grams, and the can of Vittoria is marked 250 grams. No volume conversions are required.

Old Fat Guy 02-07-09 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 8324459)
I can end one argument, at least. I just looked at my tin of Vittoria and a tube of Conti. The tube is marked 25 grams, and the can of Vittoria is marked 250 grams. No volume conversions are required.

How does that translate in American measurements? Like 5-1?

Road Fan 02-07-09 11:31 PM

10 to 1.

Old Fat Guy 02-08-09 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 8324870)
10 to 1.

That was my poor attempt at humor.

Road Fan 02-08-09 08:56 AM

It flew under my radar, sorry!

sekaijin 06-30-09 08:44 AM

Hi I know there is another tubulars thread running currently, but Im posting here to avoid further hijacking that thread.

A friend was kind enough to give me some NOS tubulars he has no use for some Vittoria Swallow Montello and a Vittoria Competition Formula Uno.

I have not found much of anything about them in a quick BF and web search (other than one BF member who had a bad experience with a Formula Uno tire).

Can anyone comment on these tires, from personal experience? Which are better tires, the Swallow Montello or the Competition Formula Uno? Any sense of where they fit in a Vittoria hierarchy?

Please, Im looking for feedback only on these particular tires, since I have some in hand. Thanks! :)


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