Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

tcs 02-19-23 08:48 AM

Ah, a 1948 Hercules three-speed, an AW copy that violated Sturmey-Archer patents.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d96f27fa25.png

thumpism 02-19-23 04:41 PM

More DL-1 drama here, showing the spoke nipple that pulled through the rear rim. And the rust. If I needed a Tourist rear rim I could make this one work. Have not seen it with the tire off yet but if the rust is no worse I'd washer that nipple and slap the wheel back on the bike. It's not even out of true.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b717cebe9.jpg
Without having spent more time with the bike here's what I'd do; toss the fork and use the frame, headset, stem/bar combo and all the rod brake hardware, fenders, seatpost, and crankset. I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws. Chain is toast. I'd use the rear wheel unless I had a better one. Crappy mattress saddle can stay or go. I'd cut off the other fork blade to make shipping easier. Without the rear wheel it could be a fairly compact package. Just putting this out there. Might have more details tomorrow.

cudak888 02-19-23 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22805657)
More DL-1 drama here, showing the spoke nipple that pulled through the rear rim. And the rust. If I needed a Tourist rear rim I could make this one work. Have not seen it with the tire off yet but if the rust is no worse I'd washer that nipple and slap the wheel back on the bike. It's not even out of true.

Without having spent more time with the bike here's what I'd do; toss the fork and use the frame, headset, stem/bar combo and all the rod brake hardware, fenders, seatpost, and crankset. I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws. Chain is toast. I'd use the rear wheel unless I had a better one. Crappy mattress saddle can stay or go. I'd cut off the other fork blade to make shipping easier. Without the rear wheel it could be a fairly compact package. Just putting this out there. Might have more details tomorrow.

I had a suspicion it pulled through. Someone screwed up the cross lacing on three of the spokes on my '79 Rudge and the holes are visibly bent from it; these rims aren't very strong at all.

I'm thinking along the same lines, but also retiring the rod brake hardware. In my experience, no matter how nice one of these are, the rod brakes are a pulsating mess that never gives good brake feel no matter how much effort or perfection one throws at them. I'm no coaster brake fan, but I think a pair of 700C's with suitable tires and a coaster could turn this into something pretty enjoyable.

Keeping my ears open on this one. clubman, any chance I can bug you for a shipping quote on one of those forks?

-Kurt

thumpism 02-19-23 06:38 PM

Glad to know I'm not the only one who does not love rod brakes or coaster brakes. As I've said before, I like the idea of the Raleigh Tourist more than I like the actual bike.

cudak888 02-19-23 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22805755)
Glad to know I'm not the only one who does not love rod brakes or coaster brakes. As I've said before, I like the idea of the Raleigh Tourist more than I like the actual bike.

We're in the same exact camp then. I really want to try one with rod-operated drums and hope that the experience is much more pleasant, floppy front wheel and all.

I've got a really beat-up '50s Tourist Superbe here that I need to put back together; finding it difficult to get motivated knowing it's going to brake like crap.

-Kurt

1989Pre 02-20-23 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22805934)
We're in the same exact camp then. I really want to try one with rod-operated drums and hope that the experience is much more pleasant, floppy front wheel and all.-Kurt

That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?

thumpism 02-20-23 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22806003)
That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?

I think the ones I've seen like that are Dutch and not English, but I could be wrong.

cudak888 02-20-23 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22806047)
I think the ones I've seen like that are Dutch and not English, but I could be wrong.

Pretty sure there were at least some models in the 1930's which came in this configuration; I know I've seen a Raleigh with factory linkage a long time ago; since lost to the Wayback Machine (good luck finding it). I can't seem to find the '36 Humber catalog, but I seem to recall a rod drum brake version of my Cob Tourist available as an option.

Indeed, Dutch examples too, and I wouldn't be surprised if some 1970's-era Forevers or Flying Pigeons may have been produced with drum operated rod brakes.

-Kurt

clubman 02-20-23 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22805747)

Keeping my ears open on this one. clubman, any chance I can bug you for a shipping quote on one of those forks?

-Kurt

Will do...

gna 02-20-23 09:35 AM

I briefly had a late '70s DL1 Tourist. I bought it in pieces, and spent a few dollars replacing the missing items. I put it all back together and rode it around, and they are a lovely bike to ride--the slack angles are very enjoyable. Unfortunately, the bike was too big for me--I couldn't straddle the top bar--and the rod brakes were not very effective. If I could find a 22" DL1 and set it up with drum brakes, that would be a very enjoyable ride.

thumpism 02-20-23 10:40 AM

Okay, this is my last post about this thing. I really should have posted in the Wrenching thread instead of clogging up this one but I got some time on it this morning, as far as I'm going to go with it until it gets boxed up.

This is the washering I mentioned. Seems to work. Wheel spins straight and true and the inside of the rim is surprisingly rust free.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...70af27f022.jpg

I'd probably find a different washer and shape it to be a little concave to reduce the lump under the rim strip, but this is proof of concept.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4a045362b.jpg

The old indicator chain was broken off so I dug out a replacement but all of mine are shorter than the OG. Oiled the hub but will let someone else worry about the overhauling. I messed with it a bit and it seems to shift. The chain they had on it was the shortest possible; axle ends slammed up against the front of the dropouts and I could barely turn the cranks. Once the rusty chain came off the crank spins smoothly so that was not the issue.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...750039d85b.jpg

I decided to keep the useless chaincase to enhance the decor of the garage. Certain to impress those in the know.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e909632671.jpg

I'm bagging all the little bits and fasteners for whoever throws himself on this thing. Whoever you are, I wish you luck.

P.S. Front fender NOT okay, as it turns out, but might be straightenable.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c48bc31c51.jpg

Salubrious 02-20-23 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22806003)
That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?

Yes! Raleigh made a kit for this purpose (IIRC, mostly for the front). Of course if you already have the frame you really don't need to run rod activation. Its easy enough to use cable activation too, so you could run more conventional handlebars. If you're not a stickler for period-correct, the modern SA from drum brake works pretty well. Its a bit harder to find the vintage SA drum brake hubs, which are the type 'AB'. There's one on ebay right now but the hub body looks a bit dreadful. Of course SA makes drum brake 3-speed hubs right now.
Drum brakes were optionally offered on Sports models and the like going back to the 1930s.

Running drums on a DL1 would be nice- you get the stately ride and can stop, even in the rain.

sunburst 02-20-23 12:58 PM

Raleigh DL1 Tourist
 

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22799167)
Around here, that pair might sell for $100, probably not for much more. I live in a fairly rural, hilly area and 3-speeds are not popular here. People seem to like how they look, but most of the bikes I see are mountain or road bikes with 10+ speeds, or more recently, e-bikes. I'd pay more for an old 3 speed around here than most people would, but I'm one of the few people who specifically looks for them. I'm surprised at how quickly e-bikes are proliferating here. I now see 1 brand new e-bike on the road for every 2 regular bikes I see. I bet within the next two years it will be 50/50.

If you want his & hers 3-speeds as a Valentine's Day present, I'd say they're worth $200, given that $200 doesn't actually buy much any more. And there is $200 worth of parts there if you are the less romantic type. The bigger issue is the space to store them and the time and parts to fix them. I know I couldn't add two more bikes - I'm out of space to store them and probably won't have time to fix them. As it is, I need to downsize a bit.

A guy on Nextdoor listed a DL1 Tourist for "best offer". I asked him what he wanted (I just needed a rear wheel) and he came back with $1800. I was gobsmacked and told him so. As someone who has restored dozens of Peugeots and can only get $300 for the best ones - and this is in SF area where they are hip! - I could not even conceive of a price like that. He came back with an ebay(?) listing for one at $3000. What!?

haha, should I switch to restoring Raleighs?

https://us1-photo.nextdoor.com/post_...esize_type=max

SirMike1983 02-20-23 11:40 PM

I owned a rod and drum Raleigh that was brought to the US from Denmark. Rod/drum is a configuration you sometimes see on Dutch and Danish market bikes. I sold the bike quite a few years ago. It was a variation of Dawn for the Danish market (Sports-style frame, 26 x 1-3/8 Westrick wheels, but rod/drum brakes).
It was an early 60s bike with green paint. It had fewer frame graphics than most, and a larger white patch on the rear fender than most (Danish market requirement, maybe?). What few frame graphics were there looked to be "export model" type, and pretty worn as it was. It also had a really tall stem - longer than the normal Raleigh 3 speed. The drum brakes get rid of the lurching-stop of stirrup/rod brakes with wheels that aren't perfectly round, but the drums also add quite a bit of rotating wheel weight. A good set of cable brakes stop better, unless it's really, really wet.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-55Jwv0eyI...0/IMG_2954.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7c_C0sqNV...0/IMG_2953.JPG

1989Pre 02-21-23 04:47 AM

Thumpism: Thanks for the update and expansion on the condition of the Tourist, and that was kind of impressive, getting a washer into that tiny spoke hole.

bwilli88 02-21-23 05:22 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22804804)
Thanks, that's good to know. I won't be needing one but anyone interested in this bike would almost certainly want one.

I would love this as a frame only. I have a pair of 28" wheels with a SARM Automatix coaster rear that I am wondering what I want to do with them. Currently they are on a Bridgestone bike here in Cambodia but I want the concept but not the cost to haul the whole bike as I am already bringing back 5 from here this summer.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc2fe73e2e.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5db627b20.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a7059a92dd.jpg

Salubrious 02-21-23 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22807087)
The drum brakes get rid of the lurching-stop of stirrup/rod brakes with wheels that aren't perfectly round, but the drums also add quite a bit of rotating wheel weight. A good set of cable brakes stop better, unless it's really, really wet.

When the rotating weight is in the hub its insignificant. FWIW they weigh less than a dyno hub...

bluesteak 02-21-23 06:50 PM

Amen, the shoes and the brake mechanism donít rotate. However I love Mikeís finished bikes.

bwilli88 02-22-23 12:53 AM

I love my Gazelle with Its 5 speed/drum rear and dyno/drum front.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a0ad0ae7a8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67803f847d.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...04e945429d.jpg

arty dave 02-22-23 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22805657)
I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws.

I've been looking for the back chaincase cover ever since I bought my DL-1 5 years ago! If you're wanting to part with it I would dearly love to obtain it - it would be the finishing part to have a whole DL-1. I'm in Australia - but of course would happily pay for postage.

I've got the rod operated drum version. The braking is very average and does add a lot to the overall weight, but it rides so well I still love taking it out for a ride at least once a week. I have the mudguards (and chaincase) ready to go back on. Before & after photos, you can see the front linkage hanging sadly - I had to source a hub & front wheel, plus have some extra threaded rod welded to the linkage to make it the right length. It also came with a heavy duty 3/16" chain and chainring (non-heron), which I swapped out with 1/8".
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa2b435959.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c273bf767f.jpg

thumpism 02-22-23 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22804819)
Question #2, but a stupid one: Any chance you'd have the time to get a rough shipping quote to Florida and possibly throw the carcass in a box (even skipping most of the usual box protection?) I really can't justify another project myself, but seeing as I'm the one who goaded you into it, and also seeing as @clubman has the fork, I'm open to volunteering to be the one who gets this back together into a usable form (unless, of course, there's someone local to you willing to pick it up).

Okay, I made a valiant effort, honest I did. Got the big TV box I've been saving and tried stuffiing Tourist bits in it and took the bathroom scale to the garage (going around [75 paces from the den door to garage door] because you don't walk on fresh floor coating) to weigh the whole mess. Say 35 pounds in a different box that will actually contain the carcass. Tried getting a quote from both shipbikes.com and bikeflights.com with mixed results. The first has suspended quotes awaiting its partnership with UPS, and the other didn't like the info I entered. Maybe they just don't like old Tourists or the people who like them. Anyway, figure 35 pounds going from here to that Southern Florida in your location at whatever rate is doable. Fifty bucks? I dunno, been a while since I shipped anything. If you want it for that we can proceed but your neighbor might not want this rear rim, which would put the rest of the deal in doubt. Or maybe at this point you want to get only the rim for him and blow off the rest of it.

If you do not want it:
Someone might be interested in the bare frame.
Someone else might want part of the chaincase.
Someone else might want other bits as yet unspecified.
I'd probably keep the rear hub because, well...just consider this thread's title. Why we're all here.

Let me stress that no one is under any obligation regarding this Raleigh. We can stop this right now and I'll hang it up someplace.

SirMike1983 02-22-23 11:50 AM

I have enough work as it is, but I caved and bought this 1953 Raleigh Reg Harris Lenton as a project. The 23 inch frame on 26 inch wheels is comfortable. I like the green and these old bikes make good riders. It's apart and undergoing a refurb right now. If the winter stays as mild as it has been, we may get an early start to the riding season... at least I hope so.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...r_1200x900.jpg

thumpism 02-22-23 01:36 PM

Not actually a 3-speed but one helluvan old Raleigh that looks like a Tourist and could be made into a 3-speed.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...75902229986076

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...qQ&oe=63FBEEE7

clubman 02-22-23 02:15 PM

That's a beauty!

thumpism 02-22-23 04:49 PM

Very shiny with a price to match in CT.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...23749379559165

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...3Q&oe=63FAB99A

clubman 02-22-23 06:22 PM

Holy crap! (he said in his best erudite manner)

cudak888 02-23-23 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22808924)
Very shiny with a price to match in CT.

Unusual (but not impossible) to see one of those all-chrome supposedly-dealer-specials that isn't a Raleigh.

Given my tendency towards owning weird Rudges, I rather like it. But not at that price.

-Kurt

canalligators 02-24-23 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22805755)
Glad to know I'm not the only one who does not love rod brakes or coaster brakes. As I've said before, I like the idea of the Raleigh Tourist more than I like the actual bike.

I love riding my Tourist, but IMO rod brakes are inferior to a decent cable brake in almost every way imaginable.

thumpism 02-24-23 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 22808172)
I've been looking for the back chaincase cover ever since I bought my DL-1 5 years ago! If you're wanting to part with it I would dearly love to obtain it - it would be the finishing part to have a whole DL-1. I'm in Australia - but of course would happily pay for postage.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c273bf767f.jpg

Here's a closeup of the cover piece so you know what you're getting into. Y'know, you could rig up a little bracket to hold this piece over the rear of the cog and run it without the rest of the chaincase. You could be a trendsetter in the DL-1 world. It could be like a Mohawk haircut for a bicycle. Or something.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae31e1d9a2.jpg

thumpism 02-24-23 11:24 AM

Neat Fuji IGH conversion.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...22247266290991

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n..._w&oe=63FDBBAE


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.