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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

luker 12-11-05 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by cyclodan
Not only do they exist they are the choice of the pros. But you better break into the piggy bank!

http://www.store.yahoo.com/cyclocros.../tubulars.html

oh, yeah. if you have a great big piggy bank, go for the Dugast'. Get a couple for your mountain bike while you are at it.

sykerocker 12-31-05 01:04 PM

If your seriously into tubulars, the best thing you can possibly have is a LOT of old warped tubular rims hanging around. Back when I rode them, I had seven dead rims, every one storing a spare tyre.

Now that I'm about to get back on them, I gotta start looking for trash rims again.

Syke
Deranged Few M/C

lotek 12-31-05 07:56 PM

syke,

I found alot of old tubular rims at LBS in the back room, no one wants
to ride them and they were happy to sell them to me cheap (got
a pair clement paris roubaix tires thrown in too!). Best deal I found
were some undrilled rims for $10 a pair that I bought for stretching tires.

marty

wildjim 01-03-06 08:35 PM

I do not understand the need to stretch the tire over time. I haven't used old rims to stretch the tires.

I've always been able to put a new tire on the rim without too much trouble and minimal stretching by hand while mounting the tire.

The act of stretching the tire during storage seems foolish to me as it would cause a loose fit on the rim when needed.

luker 01-03-06 09:00 PM

You won't stretch it that much. what stretching does, mostly, is give you a little clearance so that you don't make a huge mess on the sidewall when you put the glued tire on. storing good tubulars on a rim is also a good idea, as folded tires will eventually crack at the sharpest point of the fold. I don't have any good tubulars, so I don't worry about it too much...

wildjim 01-04-06 03:00 AM


Originally Posted by luker
You won't stretch it that much. what stretching does, mostly, is give you a little clearance so that you don't make a huge mess on the sidewall when you put the glued tire on. storing good tubulars on a rim is also a good idea, as folded tires will eventually crack at the sharpest point of the fold. I don't have any good tubulars, so I don't worry about it too much...

Per instructions the glue is left on the tire and rim about 20 minutes after the initial application to dry to a tack then the tire is mounted so there is no mess on the side wall of the rim.

Perhaps storing a sharply folded tire is not a good idea; but stretching during storage seems like a worse idea. It is not wise to ride on a overly stretched loosely fitted tubular tire.

A spare spoked wheel may be useful to check repaired tubular tires as the tire should not be inflated without the support of a spoked wheel.

None of my folded spare tires have cracked while stored in the seat pack.

Perhaps your tires were affected by something else; such as direct sunlight or open air and changing temperatures.

I store my new unused tires loosely across two pegs in the basement. It's cool and dry in the basement and no direct sunlight shines on the stored tires. This method has worked for years without any problems.

USAZorro 01-04-06 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by wildjim
Per instructions the glue is left on the tire and rim about 20 minutes after the initial application to dry to a tack then the tire is mounted so there is no mess on the side wall of the rim.

Perhaps storing a sharply folded tire is not a good idea; but stretching during storage seems like a worse idea. It is not wise to ride on a overly stretched loosely fitted tubular tire.

A spare spoked wheel may be useful to check repaired tubular tires as the tire should not be inflated without the support of a spoked wheel.

None of my folded spare tires have cracked while stored in the seat pack.

Perhaps your tires were affected by something else; such as direct sunlight or open air and changing temperatures.

I store my new unused tires loosely across two pegs in the basement. It's cool and dry in the basement and no direct sunlight shines on the stored tires. This method has worked for years without any problems.

As with many things, there are many ways of preparing and mounting tubular tires that will work fine. I employ a stretching technique, and others don't. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it works for me.

From my somewhat limited experience, I've found that some models of tires are tighter than others. There's no way that I'd have been able to mount the batch of Futurox tires I've gotten without stretching them first. The way I do it follows the advice I was given by a real old-timer (a former six-day racer). I put some air in the tires (minimal pressure) and let them sit for a few days. Then, I deflate, and put them on a wheel that I'm not using, and pump them to about 40 psi. Then I hang the wheel up. The tire will subsequently lose air over time, and this is ok. Nothing bad comes of this. Think about it, the higher pressure on the tire after it gets mounted will press on all directions, holding the tire more firmly against the rim.

What are the advantages of this? Well, by "stretching" the tires, I've trained them to live with the stem pointing in, and I've ensured that I can improve my vocabulary when the time comes to actually install them. I don't have a long record of success, but I can say, "so far, so good".

wildjim 01-04-06 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro
As with many things, there are many ways of preparing and mounting tubular tires that will work fine. I employ a stretching technique, and others don't. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, but it works for me.

From my somewhat limited experience, I've found that some models of tires are tighter than others. There's no way that I'd have been able to mount the batch of Futurox tires I've gotten without stretching them first. The way I do it follows the advice I was given by a real old-timer (a former six-day racer). I put some air in the tires (minimal pressure) and let them sit for a few days. Then, I deflate, and put them on a wheel that I'm not using, and pump them to about 40 psi. Then I hang the wheel up. The tire will subsequently lose air over time, and this is ok. Nothing bad comes of this. Think about it, the higher pressure on the tire after it gets mounted will press on all directions, holding the tire more firmly against the rim.

What are the advantages of this? Well, by "stretching" the tires, I've trained them to live with the stem pointing in, and I've ensured that I can improve my vocabulary when the time comes to actually install them. I don't have a long record of success, but I can say, "so far, so good".

I've read and it makes sense that you should not inflate a tubular tire unless it's on a wheel as the case may be damaged because it has nothing to compress against and will stretch and tear the casing.

I guess everyone does have their way of doing things; but it must require at least three days before you can mount the tire with your procedure or you have a lot of tires being prepared in waiting.

As for me I put the tire on immediately and only have a few spares; mostly because I buy a few at a time if the deal is right.

All the tubular tires I've ever used mounted on the wheel with the stem pointing down properly. No training required. . .

USAZorro 01-04-06 11:39 PM


Originally Posted by wildjim
. . . I guess everyone does have their way of doing things; but it must require at least three days before you can mount the tire with your procedure or you have a lot of tires being prepared in waiting. . .

Actually, it takes about a week if I don't rush it. I could put one on the same day I get it, but this is my preference. I have a couple extra wheelsets and have about 5 spare tires ready at this point. After I build up my next bike, I'll be down to 3 spares, and I figure this is about right for three bikes running tubulars. From there, all I have to do is look for the occasional good deal to maintain stock.

Bob S. 01-05-06 07:29 AM

The method Zorro describes is essentially the same method that I have used over the years. It also works well for me. To me, perhaps it is becuase I am all thumbs, mounting an unstreached spare quickly and neatly on the road ride is easy with a streached tire. With an unstreached tire, it can either be neat or quick, but not both. This method has worked well for me as in 30 years of rinding tubulars I have only rolled one tire, & that was entirely my fault, not the tire's. Bob

wildjim 01-05-06 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by Bob S.
The method Zorro describes is essentially the same method that I have used over the years. It also works well for me. To me, perhaps it is becuase I am all thumbs, mounting an unstreached spare quickly and neatly on the road ride is easy with a streached tire. With an unstreached tire, it can either be neat or quick, but not both. This method has worked well for me as in 30 years of rinding tubulars I have only rolled one tire, & that was entirely my fault, not the tire's. Bob

I don't understand all the fuss as it has always been easy for me to mount a new tubular tire on the rim.

Some glue gets on my finger tips but it's a small amount and easily removed.

I could maybe understand a woman or someone with small hands and lack of physical strength may not be able to mount a new tubular tire.

Maybe it's the brand of tire used. I use Vittoria CX, Continental Sprinter and Challenge tubular tires.

USAZorro 01-05-06 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by wildjim
I don't understand all the fuss as it has always been easy for me to mount a new tubular tire on the rim.

Some glue gets on my finger tips but it's a small amount and easily removed.

I could maybe understand a woman or someone with small hands and lack of physical strength may not be able to mount a new tubular tire.

Maybe it's the brand of tire used. I use Vittoria CX, Continental Sprinter and Challenge tubular tires.

I suspect it's the brand/model. I've had some that went on quite easily. My Vittorias went on quite easily. My Clement Futurox - well, they put up quite a struggle.

wildjim 01-05-06 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro
I suspect it's the brand/model. I've had some that went on quite easily. My Vittorias went on quite easily. My Clement Futurox - well, they put up quite a struggle.

Vittoria Rally tubulars are manageable; but stiff as a brick. I am not likely to purchase them again any time soon.

lotek 01-05-06 02:02 PM

Conti Sprinters and Competitions go on quite nicely.
Prestretched Clement Paris Roubaix go on, like buttah. . .
I would imagine the Rally's could use a good stretch.

Marty

Bob S. 01-05-06 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by wildjim
I don't understand all the fuss as it has always been easy for me to mount a new tubular tire on the rim.

Some glue gets on my finger tips but it's a small amount and easily removed.

I could maybe understand a woman or someone with small hands and lack of physical strength may not be able to mount a new tubular tire.

Maybe it's the brand of tire used. I use Vittoria CX, Continental Sprinter and Challenge tubular tires.


When I am on the road, I don't want to be wasting 20 min. waiting for glue to tack. It is too easy not to pre-streach & pre-inflate. I think I can still pretty quick @ changing a tubular. Personally, I would rather tinker with my toys in the garage while drinking a beer & relaxing, vic on the road.

I doubt that it is the hand size/strength thing you mentioned either. While my upper body strength isn't what it was in my prime, it ain't bad either.

Different strokes for different folk. Just my $02. Bob

wildjim 01-06-06 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by Bob S.
When I am on the road, I don't want to be wasting 20 min. waiting for glue to tack. It is too easy not to pre-streach & pre-inflate. I think I can still pretty quick @ changing a tubular. Personally, I would rather tinker with my toys in the garage while drinking a beer & relaxing, vic on the road.

I doubt that it is the hand size/strength thing you mentioned either. While my upper body strength isn't what it was in my prime, it ain't bad either.

Different strokes for different folk. Just my $02. Bob

The spare tubular tire should be glued prior to storage under the seat or wherever as it will be ready when needed.

The typical recommended tubular tire glue; such as Vittoria Mastik does not dry hard as it is a contact cement designed to adhere to the glue already applied on the rim then form a bond under compression as the tubular tire is inflated on the rim. This is why I believe that stretching the tubular tire too much may deform or damage it and reduce the amount of compression the tire may otherwise have had. Barnett's method suggests that the tire may be stretched as inflated on a wheel for 24 hours prior to mounting to ease the mounting procedure but not as a tubular tire storage method.

As designed tubular tire should not be inflated without the support of a wheel as compression without proper support will damage the base tape and or rip the stitching.

Practically the tubular tire is designed ready to mount and use as the glue is properly applied to both surfaces of the rim and the tubular tire base tape. The instructions are printed on the tube of tubular tire glue.

king koeller 01-09-06 05:55 AM

Yes! Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells!!
Fantastic! One of my desert island albums,for sure!
Tubulars ride so much nicer than clinchers. I just hate the glue and mess, but it's really worth it.

lotek 01-09-06 07:59 AM

uh folks, can I remind y'all that the purpose of this thread is
to post tips for using tubulars, tricks for mounting etc.
Its express purpose isn't to debate the merit of tubulars vs clinchers,
different mounting stratagies etc.

thanks,
Marty

unworthy1 01-11-06 02:32 PM

Wahhh, my piggy bank is empty! I ditto the request for a tip on some INEXPENSIVE 'cross tubulars, if they exist. I scored a used wheelset and that plus this forum has got me interested enough to MAYBE repeal my 25-year personal ban on sew-ups and try them again on my 'cross bike...just to see. I had a bad crash years back due to the tire rolling off the rim during a crazy down-hill descent (trip to the ER), and NEVER developed the finesse to mount one without glue going on EVERYTHING...just hated it. But the idea of Tufo tape and crashing in some nice soft mud has got me re-thinking...The wheels have Clement knobbies on now, but one tire is burnt toast...is there anything out there for less than $69?? (PS, Thanks for this great thread!)

Chongo 01-11-06 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by unworthy1
Wahhh, my piggy bank is empty! I ditto the request for a tip on some INEXPENSIVE 'cross tubulars, if they exist. I scored a used wheelset and that plus this forum has got me interested enough to MAYBE repeal my 25-year personal ban on sew-ups and try them again on my 'cross bike...just to see. I had a bad crash years back due to the tire rolling off the rim during a crazy down-hill descent (trip to the ER), and NEVER developed the finesse to mount one without glue going on EVERYTHING...just hated it. But the idea of Tufo tape and crashing in some nice soft mud has got me re-thinking...The wheels have Clement knobbies on now, but one tire is burnt toast...is there anything out there for less than $69?? (PS, Thanks for this great thread!)

Westernbikeworks.com has lots of cross tubies for under $69. I recommend the Tufos.

unworthy1 01-12-06 02:44 PM

Great tip, thanks for that!

Everest 01-17-06 07:32 PM

I'm building a bike with a set of tubular rims that came on it and have some questions. It came with 2 Vittoria Nuovo Pros and a Wolber. The rear Vittoria dosent hold air and apparently was ot glued to the rim. Is there a way to fix it? I tried to put the wolber on thhis rim but it just wouldnt fit any tips? Also the front holds air but after the rear wasnt glued on I checked and made sure this one is glued on but the glue is kind of tacky and not real secure. I imagine I will have to reglue this one as well. Is there anything wrong with reuseing these tires there not in the best shape but seem allright? Thanks for any and all help you can offer.

USAZorro 01-17-06 08:53 PM

Tubulars can be patched, but it is a bit more of a hassle, as you would need to find the leak, and apply the patch, preferably with minimal snipping and re-sewing.

Not sure what you mean by "wouldn't fit any tips?" You can re-use tires, but you're not going to get a normal full life out of them (same as anything else that's been used). As long as it is holding air, and staying on the rim securely, you should be fine.

Bob S. 01-17-06 09:04 PM

+1 on Zorro's comments. I, as the rider/end user, have succesfully patched & restitched many a tubular & gotten many more miles out of the tire befroe eventually disposing of it. As Zorro says, the trick is to try to locate the leak as well as you can before cutting the tire open, do a neat patch, restitch, & reapplication of the tape & tire. I suspect that this is much like mounting & streaching methods, different folk have different methods.

Everest 01-17-06 09:33 PM

Are there any detailed directions for this patching process anywhere online? The Wolber just didnt want to go on te rim no matter how much I tried about 15 inches didnt want to stay on.


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