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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

gaucho777 08-09-22 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22602682)
@Wildwood I recently had a broken spoke mishap with a wheel running a Rally with the Effetto tape. Obviously, I had to remove the Rally and tape to complete the repair...

Bob, I don't see why you had to touch the tire due to the broken spoke. Why not simply remove the broken spoke, replace, and re-use the same nipple?

The only time I had to do as you describe was once I was out of town and broke a French-threaded Robergel Trois Etoiles spoke on a tubular wheel. Finding a French-threaded replacement spoke to fit the nipple was impossible. I called around every shop in the area and was repeatedly told me there was no such thing as French-threaded spokes, but I knew otherwise. Still, I did have to pull up a small bit of the tire to install a new spoke & nipple until I got home and was able to put in a matching French replacement spoke. A good reason not to tour on wheels with French-threaded spokes I suppose.

smontanaro 08-10-22 04:33 AM

Ride report
 
I hadn't ridden my Redcay for quite some time. It was patiently hanging on a hook waiting. I took it out yesterday as a small tribute to Paul Brodek. He was my "Redcay guy," having provided the serial number decoder way back when. He was also from New Jersey where Jim Redcay spent his building years.

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

At my coffee stop:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4638863830.jpg

pastorbobnlnh 08-10-22 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 22604898)
Bob, I don't see why you had to touch the tire due to the broken spoke. Why not simply remove the broken spoke, replace, and re-use the same nipple?

The only time I had to do as you describe was once I was out of town and broke a French-threaded Robergel Trois Etoiles spoke on a tubular wheel. Finding a French-threaded replacement spoke to fit the nipple was impossible. I called around every shop in the area and was repeatedly told me there was no such thing as French-threaded spokes, but I knew otherwise. Still, I did have to pull up a small bit of the tire to install a new spoke & nipple until I got home and was able to put in a matching French replacement spoke. A good reason not to tour on wheels with French-threaded spokes I suppose.

I have a similar "French" challenge. The wheel in question is a rear Roval and I actually broke two spokes on the drive side when the RD decided to come loose from the hanger and was sucked (with the chain) into the spokes at about 15mph. Since the broken spokes were about 100 degrees separated, I decided to remove the tire and tape completely.

The original spokes seem to be unobtanium. They are straight pull, bladed, and have a unique head and 1.8mm threaded unique nipple. As best I know, the Roval nipples must be used with the Roval rims.

I've not been able to find any compatible replacements. I've attempted to modify a similar modern spoke and had success with re-shaping the head. However, it is threaded 2.0 mm. I tapped the nipple to 2.0mm but the nipple refuses to thread onto the spoke. I tried to cut new threads on the spoke, but with no luck. Frustrated, I set the project to the side in May, and have been busy moving south ever since.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11557ee26b.jpg
Modified spoke head on left next to original Roval spoke on right.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa2c0b3ec0.jpg
The unique Roval nipple.

obuckler 08-10-22 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22605091)

……snip…………

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

As a fan of the Vlaanderens which are NLA unfortunately I appreciate your input on the new Pro Tours. I have been looking for reviews but have not found too many. I am about to mount my last new one.

I have one with a flat to be repaired but it’s one of those not obvious leaks. No easily found source even under a magnifying class. Opened it up where the leak came out the sidewall. Nothing. Last resort which I have done before is to cut the tube and pull the whole tube, find the leak, patch it and reinstall the tube using a splice. BUT, when I opened this tube up (first time I have ever see this) they used so much glue under the seam strip it seeped inside the tire interior and made the tube stick to the casing. Could not pull the tube out. I guess I will open the tube in sections every 10 inches or so till I find the flat. What a pain.

obuckler 08-10-22 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22605091)

……snip…………

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

As a fan of the Vlaanderens which are NLA unfortunately I appreciate your input on the new Pro Tours. I have been looking for reviews but have not found too many. I am about to mount my last new one.

I have one with a flat to be repaired but it’s one of those not obvious leaks. No easily found source even under a magnifying class. Opened it up where the leak came out the sidewall. Nothing. Last resort which I have done before is to cut the tube and pull the whole tube, find the leak, patch it and reinstall the tube using a splice. BUT, when I opened this tube up (first time I have ever see this) they used so much glue under the seam strip it seeped inside the tire interior and made the tube stick to the casing. Could not pull the tube out. I guess I will open the tube in sections every 10 inches or so till I find the flat. What a pain.

gaucho777 08-10-22 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22605173)
I have a similar "French" challenge. The wheel in question is a rear Roval and I actually broke two spokes on the drive side when the RD decided to come loose from the hanger and was sucked (with the chain) into the spokes at about 15mph. Since the broken spokes were about 100 degrees separated, I decided to remove the tire and tape completely.

The original spokes seem to be unobtanium. They are straight pull, bladed, and have a unique head and 1.8mm threaded unique nipple. As best I know, the Roval nipples must be used with the Roval rims.

I've not been able to find any compatible replacements. I've attempted to modify a similar modern spoke and had success with re-shaping the head. However, it is threaded 2.0 mm. I tapped the nipple to 2.0mm but the nipple refuses to thread onto the spoke. I tried to cut new threads on the spoke, but with no luck. Frustrated, I set the project to the side in May, and have been busy moving south ever since.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11557ee26b.jpg
Modified spoke head on left next to original Roval spoke on right.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa2c0b3ec0.jpg
The unique Roval nipple.

Ahh, that makes more sense. Looks like a good attempt at reshaping the spoke head. It wasn't enough to use proprietary spokes and nipples, but they had to use outdated French-threaded nipples to boot?! I always thought those Roval wheels were cool and wanted a set BITD. Now, nearly every mention of them seems related to a search for unobtanium replacement parts. Good luck in your efforts to get them back in service!

What's the length of your Roval spokes? I do have some extra Robergel French-threaded (1.8mm) spokes and nipples in my stash. If I have a matching length, and you think you might be able to use/reshape them for your project, I'd be happy to send a couple your way.

Classtime 08-10-22 06:36 PM

obuckler Try a pair of vise grips or clamps to restrict the air flow and move them along methodically to locate the leak.

obuckler 08-11-22 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22606139)
obuckler Try a pair of vise grips or clamps to restrict the air flow and move them along methodically to locate the leak.

thanks. Yes I forgot that. I have some wood clamps that will work well!

79pmooney 08-11-22 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 22606588)
thanks. Yes I forgot that. I have some wood clamps that will work well!

My first flat since returning to sewups was a slow one, just fast enough to make the tire useless. I could clamp the tire behind the valve in my smooth jawed bench vise and walk the circumference with the wood clamp I've been needing an excuse to buy. (When my project list is down to where I can spare a day or two on the vise.)

Second flat - a roofing nail clear through the tire twice (and I am sure the tube also) and through the rim bed! (Deep rim so it didn't reach the inside TG.) First road ride ever on that wheel. Velodrome wheel picked up cheap of unknown history. From Bike Central owner's stash of velodrome wheels and rims; the shop having been closed for years and the velodrome (Alpenrose) now gone.

In that stash, a gem. Gold pair of Miche double sided track hubs, Gel330s, butted, tie and soldered spokes. Warmup (and showcase) wheels for the Nats for a woman I consider a sister. (We share fights back from injury to racing form. Also the best ally I've ever had for getting odd fix gear parts.) These wheels are literally gems. Absolutely beautiful and perfect. Built by the best. Neatest tie and solder I've ever seen. They have track rubber now but will get Corsa Speeds when it's time. Get re-spaced to 126 with a touch of dish and go on my freshly painted Mooney for very special occasions. My first ride will be the first time those rims have ever seen brakes. And every ride, I'll think of Jen.

DiabloScott 08-11-22 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 22606588)
thanks. Yes I forgot that. I have some wood clamps that will work well!

You know the water dunk works pretty well too.

obuckler 08-12-22 03:00 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22607344)
You know the water dunk works pretty well too.

yes. I found the leak with a water dunk. But it exhibited out a random area of the sidewall that was not the puncture location. No puncture to be found. Used a glass looking for any sign of one to to avail. Especially for this pesky small wires that cause flats now and then. Will be a bit before I get back to this.

I am really irritated by the tube sticking to the tire carcass because of the excess seam tape glue seeping inside the tire. That meant I couldn’t pull a healthy amount of tube out from the five inch unsewed section.

squirtdad 08-12-22 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22607344)
You know the water dunk works pretty well too.

doesn't that prove it the tire is guilty of witchrcraft or not?

grant40 08-13-22 12:58 PM

I installed a tubular tire for the 1st time yesterday. It was really messy but you got to start somewhere. I got glue everywhere the brake track on the rim. Is there any way to remove it without damaging the tire or rim. I can't just have the brake pads rub it off as I ride fixed gear with no brakes.

Classtime 08-13-22 01:15 PM

Funny Grant40.

Today, I punctured on a rather significant descent. This is where tubulars excel and I came to a stop at the end of a bend without hitting the curb.

smontanaro 08-13-22 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22609025)
I installed a tubular tire for the 1st time yesterday. It was really messy but you got to start somewhere. I got glue everywhere the brake track on the rim. Is there any way to remove it without damaging the tire or rim. I can't just have the brake pads rub it off as I ride fixed gear with no brakes.

I think acetone (main ingredient of nail polish remover) is the preferred solvent. Test in a small spot to be sure.

grant40 08-13-22 04:45 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22609059)
I think acetone (main ingredient of nail polish remover) is the preferred solvent. Test in a small spot to be sure.

The tire is still on and I'm afraid the acetone will dissolve the rubber.

smontanaro 08-13-22 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22609245)
The tire is still on and I'm afraid the acetone will dissolve the rubber.

Got some glue left? Spread it on a bit of aluminum (maybe an unused rim), let it dry, then try the acetone. Alternatively, apply to a paper towel and just rub carefully along the brake track. Unless you're just pouring it on the rim you're not going to bother the glue under the tire.

SJX426 08-17-22 09:32 AM

Both Acetone and Mineral Spirit's work. I just mounted a tire this morning.

The ride on Saturday experienced a flat on a Challenge Elite. Not too impressed with these tires but hey, they work. Max pressure is 105 psi. I had them at a lot more. My bad for not reading the label. I am use to pumping the Vittoria G+.
Tiny hole that could only be found in a water dunk and very slow. I didn't notice it until I went to do a t lane U tern. The front tire washed a bit but I was able to recover while watching the tire try to roll off the rim. It didn't.
There was enough pressure to ride it for 2 more miles before the rim started hitting the road surface on bumps.
At that Point I debated about filling it up with a cartridge or changing the tire. I still had about 5 miles to get home.
I decided to swap tires and save maybe one cartridge, thinking I would use two to get home, maybe.
Changing was really fast. A testament to using sew-ups. The spare is a Challenge Roubaix with a higher PSI limit.
These are 25mm tires that barely fit between the caliper shoes when they are released.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c2a35ab8f.jpg

Now I have two tires to complete the repair. Its been over 40 years since I have done this. The last tire was sent to tire repair in FL.

I know this new one could be addressed with an injection. I just don't want to deal with the mess later.

Hopefully this is a butyl tube. Holds air for days comparted to the latex.

Classtime 08-17-22 02:44 PM

I've had no luck with acetone or mineral spirits. I have had good luck with Citristrip adhesive remover which is kind of gooey and stays on the rim to soak and soften the Continental or Vittoria glues. Sometimes applying twice.

Regulatori 08-17-22 08:56 PM

I picked up an incredible deal on an older Japanese track bike and both the wheels are tubs.

On my other bike, another old Japanese track bike, I run Conti Gatorskin tubs in the rear and they seem really durable. Even with heavy city riding they've lasted for years.

I haven't decided if I want to sell or keep the new bike. The wheels are Suzue Pro Max high flange hubs with Wolber Super Champion Aubisque tubular rims. I love the look of them.

If I keep this bike, it will be lightly ridden. But again, I'm not sure if I'm going to sell it. Regardless, I'm not spending $60 per wheel on tubulars.

2 questions....

-Here is a link to the Wolbers. https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...m=107&AbsPos=2
Am I going to have any issues trying to do a 25mm tubular on these rims or should I stick with 23mm? They're just a really small profile rim.

-Is there any current tubulars that are somewhat decent that I can pick up for less than $100 a set? I'm tempted to just throw on Panaracer Trainers or Vittoria Rally that I could get for $75 a set. If I bump my budget up to $100 (for a pair), is there anything significantly better?

Thanks.

79pmooney 08-17-22 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22609033)
Funny Grant40.

Today, I punctured on a rather significant descent. This is where tubulars excel and I came to a stop at the end of a bend without hitting the curb.

You just saw why I am returning to tubulars. High speed flats are so much less exciting.

Classtime 08-17-22 09:04 PM

Continental Sprinters can be had for that at times on sale and they ride much better than Gatorskin Sprinters. I might ride Rally’s again if they were free. I don’t know about the Panaracers.

25s will be fine.

Regulatori 08-18-22 12:11 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22614181)
Continental Sprinters can be had for that at times on sale and they ride much better than Gatorskin Sprinters. I might ride Rally’s again if they were free. I don’t know about the Panaracers.

25s will be fine.

Classtime

Thank you for the response. Looks like I can do a pair of Sprinters for around $100.

BTW, any reason why tubs are so much cheaper in Europe? Like every time I come across a model I'm looking for, it's almost 30%+ cheaper but then I see the "tyres" in the title.

Like it's not even close to US online prices.

SJX426 08-18-22 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by Regulatori (Post 22614177)
I -Is there any current tubulars that are somewhat decent that I can pick up for less than $100 a set? I'm tempted to just throw on Panaracer Trainers or Vittoria Rally that I could get for $75 a set. If I bump my budget up to $100 (for a pair), is there anything significantly better?

Thanks.

The best solution is to find sales. This is one of those "you get what you pay for" scenarios. The more you pay the better the ride
I still have the 3/50 from Yellow Jersey running on my infrequently used Colnago (frame is a bit small). They are just enough to get by. One is in the queue for being sewn up.

I have settled on Vittoria G+ series. They were often on sale and provide a really good ride. With the supply chain issues and inflation, they may be way out of your range, as many might be.

In any case, I would rather run sew-ups than clinchers.

panzerwagon 08-18-22 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by Regulatori (Post 22614177)
-Is there any current tubulars that are somewhat decent that I can pick up for less than $100 a set? I'm tempted to just throw on Panaracer Trainers or Vittoria Rally that I could get for $75 a set. If I bump my budget up to $100 (for a pair), is there anything significantly better?

If you're ok with black sidewalls and 30mm width, the Corsa Control G2.0 are on sale for $45 here: https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/v...0c-177989.html
Shipping might be a bit though, but perhaps you can amortize that across multiple purchases.

Regulatori 08-18-22 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by panzerwagon (Post 22614969)
If you're ok with black sidewalls and 30mm width, the Corsa Control G2.0 are on sale for $45 here: https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/v...0c-177989.html
Shipping might be a bit though, but perhaps you can amortize that across multiple purchases.

Thanks but this frame only has enough room for 25mm

scozim 08-18-22 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22614181)
Continental Sprinters can be had for that at times on sale and they ride much better than Gatorskin Sprinters. I might ride Rally’s again if they were free. I don’t know about the Panaracers.

25s will be fine.

Sprinters are my go to tubular. I'm running Sprinter Gatorskins because of all the fresh chip seal roads around me. They are pretty rough this year. Might have to move to a few more sets of them. I usually buy on sale also for $98 for two. Still running mostly 22 mm tires because those are the ones that are typically on sale. I have one set of 25's of the Sprinters but haven't been able to use them yet.

SJX426 08-19-22 05:00 AM

@Regulatori - tubular tire sewup tire Servizio Corse $19.95 tubular tires at Yellow Jersey; possibly the Best Value Tubular In America for 2022!

JohnDThompson 08-19-22 06:31 AM

Yes, the YJ Servizio Corse tires are a good value, even if the price has gone up (I bought them at 3/$50 some years ago). My only complaints are the somewhat narrow width (21.5mm) and non-removable valve cores, though that apparently has changed.

Lazyass 08-19-22 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22609025)
I installed a tubular tire for the 1st time yesterday. It was really messy but you got to start somewhere. I got glue everywhere the brake track on the rim. Is there any way to remove it without damaging the tire or rim. I can't just have the brake pads rub it off as I ride fixed gear with no brakes.

Disc brake cleaner will wipe it right off. And no it's never removed any paint on my rim.


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