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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 09-12-15 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18159134)
Tom, if you got one you'd have to change your user name.... :)

I know, right?

If you haven't figured it out, noglider is merely an anagram of my last name. I like to use it as my online name because it's always available on every site. Sometimes I don't tell people where the name comes from and let people try to figure it out. Once in a job interview, the interviewer said, "So, hmm, noglider. ... Do you glide?" I said, "No," and just left it at that. :lol:

noglider 09-12-15 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18159682)
I would like to thank noglider for starting this forum and his continued input. I really enjoy my visits and the exchange of information.

Starting what forum? I didn't start this site or section or even this thread.

gster 09-12-15 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18159688)
Starting what forum? I didn't start this site or section or even this thread.

My mistake

michaelz28 09-12-15 08:17 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18159688)
Starting what forum? I didn't start this site or section or even this thread.

we all just ended up here ..

gster 09-13-15 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18159692)
My mistake

Sorry about that. I still appreciate your ongoing contributions and advise.

BigChief 09-13-15 07:47 AM

I agree with gster. All the people here make this an especially good thread. My interest in the old lightweights, especially English 3 speeds goes way back to when I was 10 years old. All those years, I've been pretty much alone with my hobby. Even my bicycling friends are more interested in high end bikes. So, my thanks and appreciation to all of you that...ended up here.

gster 09-13-15 03:53 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18160331)
I agree with gster. All the people here make this an especially good thread. My interest in the old lightweights, especially English 3 speeds goes way back to when I was 10 years old. All those years, I've been pretty much alone with my hobby. Even my bicycling friends are more interested in high end bikes. So, my thanks and appreciation to all of you that...ended up here.

I second that!
I've taken noglider's advice and added a brake to the front of my Raleigh coaster project. I couldn't get the Tecktro brake to fit so just put an old Raleigh caliper on and an old CCM lever. It's not pretty but at least the bike stops!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477039http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477040

exdraghunt 09-15-15 12:16 AM

4 Attachment(s)
So, after much reading and watching of tutorials on the internet, I finally found the guts to open up the hub on my Hercules. 2nd gear has been really touchy the entire time I've owned the bike, but the final straw was when I went to go home from a party and got on my bike and the pedals just freewheeled. I completely lost 1st and 2nd gear, and after a game attempt at going home stuck in 3rd gave up and took the bus.

Being that I have a Hercules-brand hub (a B Type 2, circa 1952-ish), which presumably would be identical to a Sturmey Archer hub but who knows, I was a bit nervous. Fortunately, it was indeed an almost exact replica of an AW hub with a few minor differences.

First obstacle: Hercules used threaded drivers on their hubs.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477295

But after some asking around, I got the driver off and proceeded to remove the (very stubborn) ball ring. And voila. A somewhat grimy, but well oiled, internal hub.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477296

And I also found the culprit behind my engagement issues. A worn gear ring. Notice how the tabs have all had the corners worn off.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477297
Other than this one part, everything else seemed to be in pretty good shape. I took the trip down to Aaron's Bike shop, which fortunately has drawers upon drawers of AW internals. They couldn't find an -exact- match to my gear ring, but dug up one that was pretty darn close.

Everything got a good cleaning, with the internals getting some fresh oil and the bearings all getting new grease, then I put it all back together and back onto the bike. Took a test ride and hey, it (mostly) works. Still having trouble with 2nd occasionally slipping, but I think it's just a cable adjustment issue. This bike seems to defy all attempts to get the cable adjusted properly.

Gratuitous bike shot, from yesterday when I finally got to take the newly-rebuilt hub on a real ride and we did a few miles along the coast.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477298

BigChief 09-15-15 05:27 AM

Love your bike. That is really, really nice. It may be possible to fit the guts from a newer AW hub into your Hercules shell. I don't have any experience with this myself, but I've heard that both the Hercules and Brampton hubs were made on license from SA and the parts are identical to the earlier SA threaded driver hubs. I'll pass along some tricks that I've found useful in solving touchy shifting. First. bent key, but you would have noticed that when you had the hub apart. Tired pawl and clutch springs. These seem to be available online, but in the old days, I made them myself. .012 guitar strings work well for pawl springs. Next is sticky or bent links on the indicator pin chain. Also, the pin should be screwed into the key fully then backed out one turn so the chain self levels against the axle nut radius. Then there's the cable. Broken strands inside the casing will mess you up. Good luck, hope a cable adjustment sorts things out for you.

Narsinha 09-16-15 06:05 AM

@exdraghunt
Congrats on your hub repair and thank you for the photos! I still hesitate to open mine, a 1979 AB .. :rolleyes:
Love your Hercules! And the wooden crate "..dangerous.." is the icing on the cake :thumb:

exdraghunt 09-16-15 01:25 PM

Haha, thanks. It's a crate for "Hercules Black Blasting Powder" that I found in the garage. Thought it would make a great carrying-crate for the bike.

I've considered replacing the guts of my hub, but only a last resort if I absolutely cannot get this one to work. The cable adjustment is just frustrating. If I adjust the low end so that, while in 1st, I can still get the tiniest amount of give from the indicator chain, then 2nd is in the neutral zone. So I tighten it up until I can get 2nd, and in 1st the cable is completely taut. (this is where it's set now.) I dunno. 2nd occasionally slips, going out of gear for a second or two before coming back, when it does that I give the barrel a quarter twist and hope that I'll find the sweet spot.

Sixty Fiver 09-16-15 08:05 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18159688)
Starting what forum? I didn't start this site or section or even this thread.

This thread has some serious legs... your contributions have helped immensely in building up a pretty decent archive of information here.

Sixty Fiver 09-16-15 08:27 PM

The leaves are starting to turn and we are supposed to get some frost tonight, have contacted the locals who are all pretty enthusiastic about going on a fall ride to take in the new colours and will of course be riding our old steeds.

The old boy didn't get as much road time as usual this season as I was inordinately busy building up countless other three speeds at the co-op and these sold as fast as I could build them.

But there are still lots of days left to get out and enjoy the non wintery riding we have left... :)

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...orts%20(1).JPG

noglider 09-16-15 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 18170375)
This thread has some serious legs... your contributions have helped immensely in building up a pretty decent archive of information here.

Coming from you, that's a high compliment. Thank you!

BigChief 09-16-15 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by exdraghunt (Post 18169361)
Haha, thanks. It's a crate for "Hercules Black Blasting Powder" that I found in the garage. Thought it would make a great carrying-crate for the bike.

I've considered replacing the guts of my hub, but only a last resort if I absolutely cannot get this one to work. The cable adjustment is just frustrating. If I adjust the low end so that, while in 1st, I can still get the tiniest amount of give from the indicator chain, then 2nd is in the neutral zone. So I tighten it up until I can get 2nd, and in 1st the cable is completely taut. (this is where it's set now.) I dunno. 2nd occasionally slips, going out of gear for a second or two before coming back, when it does that I give the barrel a quarter twist and hope that I'll find the sweet spot.


The worn gear ring is a clue. The problem with this hub has been going on for a while. Maybe something along the way is binding and not allowing the hub to indicate properly. I have seen indicator keys that were fouling in the axle slot and clutch springs that weren't strong enough to reliably move the assembly and bent or sticky indicator pin chains can cause problems. But since you have those things checked, I can't help but wonder if the shift trigger indexing is mismatched for the hub. I mention this because this happened to me once with my S5 equipped Sprite. It had these stick shifters mounted on the top tube. The indexing indents on the right side just plain didn't match the hub. No amount of cable adjusting would get the shifter indents to line up with the positions the hub needed to shift and not slip out of gear reliably. Did you ever try a different trigger shifter? Just a thought.

redfoxdogs 09-20-15 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 18170434)
The leaves are starting to turn and we are supposed to get some frost tonight, have contacted the locals who are all pretty enthusiastic about going on a fall ride to take in the new colours and will of course be riding our old steeds.

The old boy didn't get as much road time as usual this season as I was inordinately busy building up countless other three speeds at the co-op and these sold as fast as I could build them.

But there are still lots of days left to get out and enjoy the non wintery riding we have left... :)

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...orts%20(1).JPG

Nice photo! Don't have much to contribute right now. Almost done with reading through this thread. So much info that I think I will have to start over and keep a yellow pad next to me for making notes!

exdraghunt 09-20-15 04:45 PM

I am gonna bet the gear ring wore out because I rode the bike for almost 3 years with the shift misadjusted. I didn't know how to adjust it and neither did my LBS. I had to pester them for a long while before I found someone there actually competant with IGHs.

Pretty sure both hub and shifter are original, being Hercules brand parts that were only made for a few years.

On the plus side, my hub hasn't slipped in days. Had to be juuust right I guess

Sixty Fiver 09-20-15 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by redfoxdogs (Post 18179553)
Nice photo! Don't have much to contribute right now. Almost done with reading through this thread. So much info that I think I will have to start over and keep a yellow pad next to me for making notes!

It is one of the longest running and most content heavy threads on the forum... many a Google search on British 3 speeds will bring you right back here.

:)

gster 09-21-15 03:40 AM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478446

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 18180751)
It is one of the longest running and most content heavy threads on the forum... many a Google search on British 3 speeds will bring you right back here.

:)

I persuaded a co worker of mine to take the vintage 3 speed plunge and he bought this 1979 Raleigh Sports yesterday, ($70.00 CDN). Very complete and restorable. I've sent him a link to this forum and I hope he'll take advantage of the font of information available.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478445

gster 09-21-15 03:53 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 18161232)
I second that!
I've taken noglider's advice and added a brake to the front of my Raleigh coaster project. I couldn't get the Tecktro brake to fit so just put an old Raleigh caliper on and an old CCM lever. It's not pretty but at least the bike stops!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477039http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=477040

I can't leave this one alone. I managed to find an old clean 28" rim that would accomodate caliper brakes from George at Parts Unknown. Another George at Parkdale Bicycles had a tire that would fit . So for now the bike is complete. I had no idea how confusing tire sizes could be. Most of my bikes are British 3 speeds and take the standard 26" tire. This rim was marked 28 x 1 1/2 " Canadian size.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478447
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478468http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478469

Slash5 09-21-15 08:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Was there ever a Raleigh with a "hump" style top tube? Can't ever remember seeing anything on one.
Did someone move a bunch of Raleigh parts over to a old CCM?
Late 1940 raleigh bike | other | Peterborough | Kijiji

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=478461

noglider 09-21-15 09:27 AM

Yes, some LTD-3 models had a curved top tube, and I think the Space Rider did, too.

I found this picture in this blog post.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-D19U9UVumV...0/DSC05046.JPG

markk900 09-21-15 11:51 AM

Bent fork! Not sure that is accurately a 40s Raleigh....

Sixty Fiver 09-21-15 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18181048)
I can't leave this one alone. I managed to find an old clean 28" rim that would accomodate caliper brakes from George at Parts Unknown. Another George at Parkdale Bicycles had a tire that would fit . So for now the bike is complete. I had no idea how confusing tire sizes could be. Most of my bikes are British 3 speeds and take the standard 26" tire. This rim was marked 28 x 1 1/2 " Canadian size.

The F13 is easy to deal with as modern 700c tyres and tubes fit, you just have to be mindful that that the rims will not handle the same high pressures as modern hooked rims.

British 28 inch wheels are oversized at 635mm...

With British three speeds you have several 26 inch tyre sizes to deal with, depending on the era of production... 26 by 1 3/8 wheels (590mm E.R.D.) are fitted to later day models while 26 by 1 1/4 wheels (597mm E.R.D.) were fitted to older Raleighs.

Higher performance models were also fitted with the 597 rims which often came in nicer versions (stainless and aluminium) and at the time Dunlop made some very nice racing tyres in this size.

My 1955 Lenton has the stainless 597 rims (and spokes) which still look as good as they did 60 years ago... aluminium rims in this size are fairly rare as the British were not ready to embrace this new material on their bicycles and they were even more expensive.

gster 09-21-15 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 18183464)
The F13 is easy to deal with as modern 700c tyres and tubes fit, you just have to be mindful that that the rims will not handle the same high pressures as modern hooked rims.

British 28 inch wheels are oversized at 635mm...

With British three speeds you have several 26 inch tyre sizes to deal with, depending on the era of production... 26 by 1 3/8 wheels (590mm E.R.D.) are fitted to later day models while 26 by 1 1/4 wheels (597mm E.R.D.) were fitted to older Raleighs.

Higher performance models were also fitted with the 597 rims which often came in nicer versions (stainless and aluminium) and at the time Dunlop made some very nice racing tyres in this size.

My 1955 Lenton has the stainless 597 rims (and spokes) which still look as good as they did 60 years ago... aluminium rims in this size are fairly rare as the British were not ready to embrace this new material on their bicycles and they were even more expensive.

Thank you again for the info. I should have thanked you for starting this thread, my mistake. I do have a 26 x 1 1/4 hub/rim in the garage. I'll take a closer look at it. | enjoy my time here and have one question.
Why haven't we heard from Velocvixen?

Sixty Fiver 09-21-15 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18183642)
Thank you again for the info. I should have thanked you for starting this thread, my mistake. I do have a 26 x 1 1/4 hub/rim in the garage. I'll take a closer look at it. | enjoy my time here and have one question.
Why haven't we heard from Velocvixen?

I am holding her hostage in my shop until she agrees to come and work with me.

:D

gster 09-22-15 03:32 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 18183843)
I am holding her hostage in my shop until she agrees to come and work with me.

:D

Here in Toronto, that's still against the law......

Velocivixen 09-22-15 08:35 AM

@gster - I'm still here and doing well. I don't have any vintage projects, nor the funds because I bought a modern bike and have been dialing that one in (just bought a new saddle - Selle Italia "Diva". Also just out riding more too.

Although I have gladly given my services to two of my neighbors for their bikes. In return one traded me aged hemlock bark dust, and the other one surprised me with two packets of zip ties and a new plastic tool chest! How sweet. I told them I really didn't want anything, but they insisted.

The Raleigh Twenty is fine, although asked @gugie if he'd make me a drop bolt for the rear brake and just haven't gotten around to taking the parts over. Thinking maybe to just have someone lower the rear plate instead. I like the bike because of its uniqueness but it does ride differently from other bikes I have. The NOS SA AW rear hub is the quickest most perfect shifting hub I've ever experienced in regard to a 3 speed.

Im here every day reading posts, but don't always have anything to add. Hope you all are well.

arex 09-22-15 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18184562)
@gster - I'm still here and doing well. I don't have any vintage projects, nor the funds because I bought a modern bike and have been dialing that one in (just bought a new saddle - Selle Italia "Diva". Also just out riding more too.

Although I have gladly given my services to two of my neighbors for their bikes. In return one traded me aged hemlock bark dust, and the other one surprised me with two packets of zip ties and a new plastic tool chest! How sweet. I told them I really didn't want anything, but they insisted.

The Raleigh Twenty is fine, although asked @gugie if he'd make me a drop bolt for the rear brake and just haven't gotten around to taking the parts over. Thinking maybe to just have someone lower the rear plate instead. I like the bike because of its uniqueness but it does ride differently from other bikes I have. The NOS SA AW rear hub is the quickest most perfect shifting hub I've ever experienced in regard to a 3 speed.

Im here every day reading posts, but don't always have anything to add. Hope you all are well.

<salutes>

gugie 09-22-15 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18184562)
@gster - I'm still here and doing well. I don't have any vintage projects, nor the funds because I bought a modern bike and have been dialing that one in (just bought a new saddle - Selle Italia "Diva". Also just out riding more too.

Although I have gladly given my services to two of my neighbors for their bikes. In return one traded me aged hemlock bark dust, and the other one surprised me with two packets of zip ties and a new plastic tool chest! How sweet. I told them I really didn't want anything, but they insisted.

The Raleigh Twenty is fine, although asked @gugie if he'd make me a drop bolt for the rear brake and just haven't gotten around to taking the parts over. Thinking maybe to just have someone lower the rear plate instead. I like the bike because of its uniqueness but it does ride differently from other bikes I have. The NOS SA AW rear hub is the quickest most perfect shifting hub I've ever experienced in regard to a 3 speed.

Im here every day reading posts, but don't always have anything to add. Hope you all are well.

I'm away on my annual mid-life crisis bike trip next few weeks, but am willing and able to take a look at the Twenty after that. I have a Bike Friday, I know what you mean- they do ride differently. I've never overhauled my SACHS 3X7 system, I think we might have a trade-you show me how to disassemble and clean the thing, I make you a drop bolt or lower the rear plate-I'm sure we can come up with something. Heck, we could put cantilevers on it if you don't mind repainting!


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