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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

elcraft 07-17-17 09:24 AM

Not the same threading!!
 

Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 19710471)
I'm interested in towing a Chariot child trailer with a '73 Raleigh Sports, but like an earlier poster I am finding the Sturmey AW axle too short to fit the left side rear axle nut over the trailer hitch cup. The Thule hitch adapter for Shimano IGH is an extension nut threaded to 3/8" 26tpi which I understand ought to fit on a Sturmey AW axle, Thule says to torque the nut to 40nm but the Sturmey AW manual advises to torque the nut to 26nm. I'm inclined to follow Thule's safety guidance but am a novice and wonder what might be the effect on the Sturmey of having over-torqued the left rear axle nut?

Sturmey Archer AW axles are 13/32" by 26tpi!! The 3/8 " diameter is too small by 1/32". If your axle threading becomes damaged, then the axle will have to be replaced. Although this would be a great opportunity to learn how to dismantle and rebuild an AW hub, I don't think that what you want to do. You could also get one of the longer 6 1/4" axles and replace the original axle, but you will need the longer indicator rod for the axle, as well.
I would see if you could modify the mounting plate for the trailer to be secured by the fender mounts. The fender/ drop out threading is also an odd English threading like Whitworth or some other. But the drop out can be tapped out to a more standard threading and longer/ stronger bolts substituted to secure the modified trailer mount. An additional drilling in the drop out wouldn't be a lot more trouble to add another securing bolt. This re-working of the fender bolts is much less invasive a compromise than any other in this circumstance.

BigChief 07-17-17 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19724171)
I've managed to accumulate a bunch of those, but on most the spring seems kind of shot, and I don't think it has enough tension to hold the gear. Anyone have a fix for that?

Yes! There's one guy in the US and another in the UK who sell NOS replacement torsion bar springs for these on eBay.
Just checked. I only see the UK seller right now. Keep searching for Sturmey Archer shifter springs. Maybe the US seller will turn up again.
NOS VINTAGE STURMEY ARCHER 4 SPEED GEAR LEVER TRIGGER SPRING SA PART NUMBER K738 | eBay

bobclark86 07-17-17 12:45 PM

My fiance's father offered me the bike he rode through seminary, a (from my best guess) 1954 Raleigh Sports Model 22. It's been hiding in a barn loft for 20 years, and before that in various garages as he carted it from church to church during his career. I want to know what everyone thinks of getting it back to roadworthy. Mostly whether it's worth it or not, and if I should repaint it or leave it rust and black. Seems like the mechanical parts work, though.

He also gave me and the lady a Sears lady's 3-speed from the 1970s with a Shimano 333 internal, which is in better cosmetic shape (less to fix and the paint seems better... I was thinking of overhauling that first). I know it's nothing to write home about, but we're just going to be riding on the paved trails in our small city, so I think it will work, even with the hub everyone seems to hate, according to the Intewebz.

I can't seem to upload pictures at all -- I don't have enough posts yet, as I haven't needed to post here before despite joining in 2015... I'll just have to go post a few more before everyone can see, haha.

dweenk 07-17-17 12:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I have shifters with two types of springs - a wire spring and a flat spring. The older of the two has the flat spring. Sorry about the focus.

nlerner 07-17-17 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19725093)
Yes! There's one guy in the US and another in the UK who sell NOS replacement torsion bar springs for these on eBay.
Just checked. I only see the UK seller right now. Keep searching for Sturmey Archer shifter springs. Maybe the US seller will turn up again.
NOS VINTAGE STURMEY ARCHER 4 SPEED GEAR LEVER TRIGGER SPRING SA PART NUMBER K738 | eBay

Cool--thanks! I assume I'd have to remove and replace the faceplate rivet to get to that spring, right? I remember you posting pics on how to do that, @BigChief? I also know Martin Hanczyc, the person whose posted a history of S-A 3-speed triggers, and he might have some insight.

Also, perhaps this is the US seller you were looking for?

BigChief 07-17-17 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19725274)
Cool--thanks! I assume I'd have to remove and replace the faceplate rivet to get to that spring, right? I remember you posting pics on how to do that, @BigChief? I also know Martin Hanczyc, the person whose posted a history of S-A 3-speed triggers, and he might have some insight.

Also, perhaps this is the US seller you were looking for?

YUP! That's him.
Yes, you have to drift out the pin that holds the cam plate. The other pin holds the pawl. Not necessary to remove this one unless you want to square up a bent case. Sometimes if the cam pin is tight, you will dimple the case in as you drift the pin out. Don't worry. The case is soft and easy to work. It's handy to have a rubber hammer and a 1/4" bar or piece of hardwood to use as an anvil to straighten up the case. The first time you reassemble, it is tricky to get the pin to line up with the holes under spring pressure. It's aggravating but you'll get it. It's one of those things you get the knack of after you rebuild a few.

nlerner 07-17-17 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19725462)
YUP! That's him.
Yes, you have to drift out the pin that holds the cam plate. The other pin holds the pawl. Not necessary to remove this one unless you want to square up a bent case. Sometimes if the cam pin is tight, you will dimple the case in as you drift the pin out. Don't worry. The case is soft and easy to work. It's handy to have a rubber hammer and a 1/4" bar or piece of hardwood to use as an anvil to straighten up the case. The first time you reassemble, it is tricky to get the pin to line up with the holes under spring pressure. It's aggravating but you'll get it. It's one of those things you get the knack of after you rebuild a few.

Thanks again! I have plenty of candidates to play around with:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4320/...507b67d6_c.jpg

SirMike1983 07-17-17 06:53 PM

My new phone camera is better than the old - lets me take close-ups of some of the cooler parts from the earlier era of post-war Raleighs:

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...y-touches.html

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XMX1iv4kE...717_185810.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BExk61Pc-...717_185928.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1Dm1foF3v...717_185841.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SYWPO7PC6...717_185833.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bpKP1KD0z...717_185856.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mctwtw96y...717_193527.jpg

BigChief 07-17-17 06:54 PM

@nlerner Nice!!
Now that I think more about it, you do have to remove the pawl to get the torsion bar spring out. Sorry, got that wrong. It's been a couple of years since I repaired a window shifter and I usually completely disassemble them. I think I may be able to help with reassembly. Get the new spring in place then replace the pawl and pin. Then you set the trigger on the cam plate. Remember the position of the two when you take it apart. Then, it's not too hard to get the second pin through the hole in the cam plate. The trouble starts when you try to get the small end of the pin lined up with the hole on the back of the case under spring pressure. First, you need good lighting so you can see when the pin lines up. I hold the case up against a flat surface. The edge of my kitchen table top works for me. Then, I maneuver the trigger around with the help of a small screwdriver until I see the pin line up with the hole. Then, just some finger pressure on the pin head will get the pin to stick in place as it begins to enter the hole. Then I carefully turn the unit around and drive the pin home on a hard flat surface.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

gster 07-17-17 07:16 PM

Excellent photos.

DQRider 07-17-17 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19726049)
My new phone camera is better than the old - lets me take close-ups of some of the cooler parts from the earlier era of post-war Raleighs:

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...y-touches.html











https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mctwtw96y...717_193527.jpg

Aw, man, now you're just showing off!

With ample justification, I might add. Your bikes are always so "pukka" and gorgeous. Why, it almost looks like you know what you're doing! :p

Nice bikes, Mike. :thumb:

Ballenxj 07-17-17 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19726049)
My new phone camera is better than the old - lets me take close-ups of some of the cooler parts from the earlier era of post-war Raleighs:

Very NICE! :thumb: A lot of good stuff here folks. :)
I keep seeing SA 4 speed reference in here, did they make very many of them? I had never heard of them till I joined here.

SirMike1983 07-17-17 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 19726162)
Very NICE! :thumb: A lot of good stuff here folks. :)
I keep seeing SA 4 speed reference in here, did they make very many of them? I had never heard of them till I joined here.

It's an FW four-speed, wide ratio hub.

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.co...tos/pic-63.jpg

They're not "rare", but are less common than the AW three-speed. The medium ratio "FM" hub is more uncommon than the FW - mainly for club bikes. The FW also appears as the "FG" hub when combined with a dynohub.

Dewey101 07-18-17 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by elcraft (Post 19724586)
Sturmey Archer AW axles are 13/32" by 26tpi!! The 3/8 " diameter is too small by 1/32"...Although this would be a great opportunity to learn how to dismantle and rebuild an AW hub, I don't think that what you want to do...the drop out can be tapped out to a more standard threading and longer/ stronger bolts substituted to secure the modified trailer mount.

Thanks for the information, I just had the hub rebuilt by my LBS so you are correct I don't want to replace the axle at this time. Thank you for the information about the axle threading and drop out mounting option. I took the bike for my first ride today, I towed my daughter to swim class. It performed well, the kool stop brakes on the new aluminum rims worked well bringing us to a stop.

arty dave 07-19-17 04:20 AM

[QUOTE=AngeloDolce;18776678]

"The gears on the AB hub are the same as the AW; it uses a larger shell to accommodate the brake (I believe same dimensions as the AG Dynohub shell). The left cone is different, to accommodate the shell."

I just came across this on page 420something and it made me wonder if S5 innards could be swapped with the AB guts if the left cone from the AB is used. I've swapped S5 innards into an AW shell, so can't see why this wouldn't work. Has anyone tried this?

BigChief 07-19-17 05:17 AM

There was an important thing I forgot to mention about reassembling trigger shifters. Sometimes, the main body pins will have burrs on the top edges that won't allow you to push the pin into the back case hole with finger pressure. This is something you should check before you reassemble. If they won't start into the case hole, you need to file or stone off the sharp edge so you have a slight lead into the hole. This is important because after you get the pin lined up you need to push it into place with finger pressure. Then it needs to stay in place while you turn the case around to tap the pin down.

BigChief 07-19-17 05:44 AM

I had a shifter that I already took apart and gave a 2 day soak in Evapo-Rust and didn't get around to putting together again. Figured I'd post some pics of a reassembly. This shifter looked shabby. Lots of light surface rust and rust stains but it wasn't bent and the colors on the face plate were completely intact. Which is rare. Note that the Evapo-Rust removed the stains from the face plate but didn't degrade the colors at all. The important picture here is where I'm holding the case against the edge of the table top. This is the whole trick of getting the body pins lined up while they're under spring pressure. Here, I'm fitting the second pin into the hole in the cam plate from the front. Next, I flip it over, hold it the same way and line up the pin with the hole on the back side.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...90ed6cbb_z.jpg001 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4301/...84fefbdbde.jpg002 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/...4e76e943_z.jpg004 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4303/...d37a1beb_z.jpg005 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...5fc5e441_z.jpg006 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...1ff03e11_z.jpg007 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/...7e403b10_z.jpg008 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...c6f2a18a_z.jpg009 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

nlerner 07-19-17 06:13 AM

Very helpful, @BigChief. Thanks!

clubman 07-19-17 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19729184)
Very helpful, @BigChief. Thanks!

Ditto. I've got two or three oldies with bent plates and now I've got tech support. I'll take a whack at them.

3speedslow 07-19-17 04:32 PM

Whoa! Suddenly that bin full of broken 3 speed shifters at the LBS seems like a bounty!

capnjonny 07-19-17 05:14 PM

I would love to get an aluminum 27" or 700 c rim with a good SA 3 speed hub. I am not ready to try lacing a wheel up yet but I might be able to trade?

I have some fenders (blue) and a parts bike or 2 and could possibly get some rims which I could send someone in exchange for them doing up a wheel?

ultimately I am trying to get an old Nishiki international frame with a cracked chain stay I have welded by a friend and then build it up with 700c x 40 tires and a 3 speed. I could send you a SA hub , you could use used stainless spokes? and send the completed wheel back. I could make a light weight shipping crate(cabinet maker by trade ) to ship each way .

Does this sound like a fair trade to any one?

SirMike1983 07-19-17 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19729144)
I had a shifter that I already took apart and gave a 2 day soak in Evapo-Rust and didn't get around to putting together again. Figured I'd post some pics of a reassembly. This shifter looked shabby. Lots of light surface rust and rust stains but it wasn't bent and the colors on the face plate were completely intact. Which is rare. Note that the Evapo-Rust removed the stains from the face plate but didn't degrade the colors at all. The important picture here is where I'm holding the case against the edge of the table top. This is the whole trick of getting the body pins lined up while they're under spring pressure. Here, I'm fitting the second pin into the hole in the cam plate from the front. Next, I flip it over, hold it the same way and line up the pin with the hole on the back side.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...90ed6cbb_z.jpg001 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4301/...84fefbdbde.jpg002 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/...4e76e943_z.jpg004 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4303/...d37a1beb_z.jpg005 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...5fc5e441_z.jpg006 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...1ff03e11_z.jpg007 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/...7e403b10_z.jpg008 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...c6f2a18a_z.jpg009 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

This is great. Would it be alright if I featured this repair, with attribution, on a static webpage on the Bike Shed Blog? Ideally I'd like to have up photos and brief step-by-step of how to repair these shifters. Your pictures and description are better than I could do. If there's anything else you'd like to add, feel free to PM me, but I'd love to make a static, one-click webpage featuring this information for easy access to people rebuilding these (as opposed to having to search through the 500+ pages of this thread).

nlerner 07-19-17 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 19730790)
I would love to get an aluminum 27" or 700 c rim with a good SA 3 speed hub. I am not ready to try lacing a wheel up yet but I might be able to trade?

I have some fenders (blue) and a parts bike or 2 and could possibly get some rims which I could send someone in exchange for them doing up a wheel?

ultimately I am trying to get an old Nishiki international frame with a cracked chain stay I have welded by a friend and then build it up with 700c x 40 tires and a 3 speed. I could send you a SA hub , you could use used stainless spokes? and send the completed wheel back. I could make a light weight shipping crate(cabinet maker by trade ) to ship each way .

Does this sound like a fair trade to any one?

One issue is that most common S-A hubs are 40-hole, and 40-hole 700c or 27" rims are hard to find. Do you have matching hub/rim? If not, I should be able to help you out as I have a couple of 40-hole 700c rims stashed away and would be willing to build you a wheel. Let me know.

capnjonny 07-19-17 08:38 PM

530 posts in this thread . Is that a record? Anyone know the longest thread on this site?

clubman 07-19-17 09:28 PM

13,225 posts. :thumb:

There may be bigger.

gster 07-20-17 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19729144)
I had a shifter that I already took apart and gave a 2 day soak in Evapo-Rust and didn't get around to putting together again. Figured I'd post some pics of a reassembly. This shifter looked shabby. Lots of light surface rust and rust stains but it wasn't bent and the colors on the face plate were completely intact. Which is rare. Note that the Evapo-Rust removed the stains from the face plate but didn't degrade the colors at all. The important picture here is where I'm holding the case against the edge of the table top. This is the whole trick of getting the body pins lined up while they're under spring pressure. Here, I'm fitting the second pin into the hole in the cam plate from the front. Next, I flip it over, hold it the same way and line up the pin with the hole on the back side.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...90ed6cbb_z.jpg001 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4301/...84fefbdbde.jpg002 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/...4e76e943_z.jpg004 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4303/...d37a1beb_z.jpg005 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...5fc5e441_z.jpg006 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4292/...1ff03e11_z.jpg007 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/...7e403b10_z.jpg008 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...c6f2a18a_z.jpg009 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

Good Tutorial.
The photos really help.

nlerner 07-20-17 08:12 AM

Here's an update on the '68 Sports that I've been re-habbing:

As originally found from a local CL seller:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/...9db1df5b_c.jpg

As of this morning:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4299/...087002a6_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4318/...77804af2_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4291/...99caf157_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4307/...a98e34c7_c.jpg

That almost bronze-green chain guard was in my stash, and it might not look much better than the black one it came with. Otherwise, I was able to re-use almost everything, including the gear cable and barrel end, chain, and brake cables. I had to pull from the bin the 3-speed trigger, one brake pad, some housing, a matching pair of used tires (the existing rear was shot; front will go back in the bin), and that surprisingly comfortable Schwinn-labeled sprung saddle. The rear wheel isn't particularly round because some spokes are stripped in their nipples, but I actually don't notice it while riding. I also had to straighten the bent steerer on the fork, which wasn't too arduous. And I'm having a heck of a time centering the rear brake (I think the spring has more tension on one side than the other so some judicious bending is in order). Otherwise, the bright parts cleaned up quite well.

noglider 07-20-17 08:50 AM

That's really good work, Neal. I'm impressed with the steerer tube straightening. That sounds harder than fork blades, but maybe not? Fixing the brake spring will be easy by comparison. I've done that several times.

I'm puzzled when I see handlebars pointing up in that way and prefer them down. Do some people like them up like that? I assume people leave them that way out of negligence.

jon.612 07-20-17 09:26 AM

On the road again...
 
1 Attachment(s)
After a couple of years, back on the road.


The bottom bracket was squeaking, so I pulled the crank to repack it. It seems 50 years since the last time it was assembled had made it a bit sticky. I came across a magnificent discovery, a sealed bearing cottered bottom bracket. This superior replacement gave me license to remove the sticky right cup with a cold chisel. While it took a bit of modification to grind the left cup, it's now back on the road, complete with new Sun CR18 alloy rims. It's a fantastic ride. I like to have a bike you need to change clothes o ride, and one you don't. I'm back up to full inventory (2) bikes, which is appropriate for the small amount of square footage available in the garage.

noglider 07-20-17 10:38 AM

Nice work, @jon.612. What kind of seatpost is that?


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