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Eric F 09-28-22 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662003)
100 degrees again today but supposed to start cooling off tomorrow. It was about 100 when we finished yesterday @ noon. I wanted to start early again today but still sitting here.

I got on my MTB at about 5:00 yesterday, and did the climb up to Brown Saddle from JPL. This time of year, most of the climb is in the shade. It was pretty warm, but tolerable.

datlas 09-28-22 11:22 AM

We had a good ride, although it was not without some drama. We had a big group, I believe 16 riders in total. Probably the most interesting event was when we went through a 4-way intersection....the lead riders slowed down, then proceeded. There was a black SUV coming towards the intersection from the left as the middle part of the group came through (we were in a reasonably tight paceline), so everyone in the line rolled through and the SUV stopped. The SUV turned to come our way, then passed us nicely....but shortly after passing us turned on his red/blue flashing lights so of course we stopped. I rolled to the front and said "Of course, we were wrong to go through the intersection without stopping, and we are really sorry" which I think was disarming. He looked at us and semi-yelled: "Respect! In order to get it, you gotta give it!" I repeated our apology and he seemed satisfied, and went on his way.

I know that it's not right to treat a 4-way stop sign as a yield, but I also know that most of us do it anyway. The other options include truly stopping at all stop signs (which would really slow us down, the back-roads we use have lots of them) or to stick with roads that do not have stop signs, but those are major roads which are less safe for cyclists.

I wish PA would adopt an "Idaho Stop" law but I am not holding my breath.

Comments?

t2p 09-28-22 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by phrantic09 (Post 22661772)
The Aspero has horrible paint for that- the color is great, but anything touches it and you get a ascuff mark.

bampilot06 look at ride wraps- can totally cover your bike in self repairing vinyl tape. I have some in sensitive areas, you can’t tell it’s there and it works.

it's been a while - but back-in-the-day I used clear contact paper (?) ... shelf paper ? ... the stuff you can get at a hardware store / building supply store / kitchen gadgets etc place ...

t2p 09-28-22 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662003)
Wordle 466 4/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
🟨⬜🟩⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟩🟨⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
100 degrees again today but supposed to start cooling off tomorrow. It was about 100 when we finished yesterday @ noon. I wanted to start early again today but still sitting here.

yikes

our temps dropped from upper 70's / low 80's to low 60's

last ride 62 degrees ... wore two light layers and it was actually pleasant

bonus: helmet straps were not soaked with sweat when we returned

t2p 09-28-22 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22662206)
We had a good ride, although it was not without some drama. We had a big group, I believe 16 riders in total. Probably the most interesting event was when we went through a 4-way intersection....the lead riders slowed down, then proceeded. There was a black SUV coming towards the intersection from the left as the middle part of the group came through (we were in a reasonably tight paceline), so everyone in the line rolled through and the SUV stopped. The SUV turned to come our way, then passed us nicely....but shortly after passing us turned on his red/blue flashing lights so of course we stopped. I rolled to the front and said "Of course, we were wrong to go through the intersection without stopping, and we are really sorry" which I think was disarming. He looked at us and semi-yelled: "Respect! In order to get it, you gotta give it!" I repeated our apology and he seemed satisfied, and went on his way.

I know that it's not right to treat a 4-way stop sign as a yield, but I also know that most of us do it anyway. The other options include truly stopping at all stop signs (which would really slow us down, the back-roads we use have lots of them) or to stick with roads that do not have stop signs, but those are major roads which are less safe for cyclists.

I wish PA would adopt an "Idaho Stop" law but I am not holding my breath.

Comments?

you were both unlucky and lucky lol

next time you might look more for the unmarked police cars lol

big john 09-28-22 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by t2p (Post 22662219)

bonus: helmet straps were not soaked with sweat when we returned

That doesn't happen here. This heat wave, although sucky, is nothing like the last one a few weeks back. That was a 2 week sufferfest, even around 90 late at night.

Just got back from spinning around the area, everything is soaked like always. NOAA says below 90 this Saturday.:bday:

big john 09-28-22 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by Eric F (Post 22662091)
I got on my MTB at about 5:00 yesterday, and did the climb up to Brown Saddle from JPL. This time of year, most of the climb is in the shade. It was pretty warm, but tolerable.

Is the Saddle where the bench is? Do you turn around there and come down the same way?

Eric F 09-28-22 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662258)
Is the Saddle where the bench is? Do you turn around there and come down the same way?

There are a few benches at Brown Saddle. My ride... https://www.strava.com/activities/7877791754

WhyFi 09-28-22 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22662206)
We had a good ride, although it was not without some drama. We had a big group, I believe 16 riders in total. Probably the most interesting event was when we went through a 4-way intersection....the lead riders slowed down, then proceeded. There was a black SUV coming towards the intersection from the left as the middle part of the group came through (we were in a reasonably tight paceline), so everyone in the line rolled through and the SUV stopped. The SUV turned to come our way, then passed us nicely....but shortly after passing us turned on his red/blue flashing lights so of course we stopped. I rolled to the front and said "Of course, we were wrong to go through the intersection without stopping, and we are really sorry" which I think was disarming. He looked at us and semi-yelled: "Respect! In order to get it, you gotta give it!" I repeated our apology and he seemed satisfied, and went on his way.

I know that it's not right to treat a 4-way stop sign as a yield, but I also know that most of us do it anyway. The other options include truly stopping at all stop signs (which would really slow us down, the back-roads we use have lots of them) or to stick with roads that do not have stop signs, but those are major roads which are less safe for cyclists.

I wish PA would adopt an "Idaho Stop" law but I am not holding my breath.

Comments?

My comment: **** him.

Either your front riders would have been at the intersection first or at the same time, but to the right; your group would have had the right of way, regardless. Slowing and then proceeding, when the right of way is clearly yours, is plenty respectful. I would bet that he would have pulled you guys even if your lead riders came to a full stop but then proceeded through as a group. He'd also probably be pissed to be behind you and have every single one of you come to an individual and complete stop. He just wanted to flex on you spandex-wearing, second-class road users.

ls01 09-28-22 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22661326)
I've been on BF long enough - I can spot a sock from a mile away.

nicely done

MoAlpha 09-28-22 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22662206)
We had a good ride, although it was not without some drama. We had a big group, I believe 16 riders in total. Probably the most interesting event was when we went through a 4-way intersection....the lead riders slowed down, then proceeded. There was a black SUV coming towards the intersection from the left as the middle part of the group came through (we were in a reasonably tight paceline), so everyone in the line rolled through and the SUV stopped. The SUV turned to come our way, then passed us nicely....but shortly after passing us turned on his red/blue flashing lights so of course we stopped. I rolled to the front and said "Of course, we were wrong to go through the intersection without stopping, and we are really sorry" which I think was disarming. He looked at us and semi-yelled: "Respect! In order to get it, you gotta give it!" I repeated our apology and he seemed satisfied, and went on his way.

I know that it's not right to treat a 4-way stop sign as a yield, but I also know that most of us do it anyway. The other options include truly stopping at all stop signs (which would really slow us down, the back-roads we use have lots of them) or to stick with roads that do not have stop signs, but those are major roads which are less safe for cyclists.

I wish PA would adopt an "Idaho Stop" law but I am not holding my breath.

Comments?

We generally yield to vehicles with rights at intersections, but we do try to keep the bunch together. The locals seem to have pretty much figured out group rides and generally treat us as a unit without acrimony. We're careful of cops, but some have waved us through.

genejockey 09-28-22 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22662206)
We had a good ride, although it was not without some drama. We had a big group, I believe 16 riders in total. Probably the most interesting event was when we went through a 4-way intersection....the lead riders slowed down, then proceeded. There was a black SUV coming towards the intersection from the left as the middle part of the group came through (we were in a reasonably tight paceline), so everyone in the line rolled through and the SUV stopped. The SUV turned to come our way, then passed us nicely....but shortly after passing us turned on his red/blue flashing lights so of course we stopped. I rolled to the front and said "Of course, we were wrong to go through the intersection without stopping, and we are really sorry" which I think was disarming. He looked at us and semi-yelled: "Respect! In order to get it, you gotta give it!" I repeated our apology and he seemed satisfied, and went on his way.

I know that it's not right to treat a 4-way stop sign as a yield, but I also know that most of us do it anyway. The other options include truly stopping at all stop signs (which would really slow us down, the back-roads we use have lots of them) or to stick with roads that do not have stop signs, but those are major roads which are less safe for cyclists.

I wish PA would adopt an "Idaho Stop" law but I am not holding my breath.

Comments?

My comment is that they really don't want us EACH to take an individual turn at 4-ways. They might think they do, till the time comes they're behind the group ride and they'd have to wait for EVERYONE to stop, wait for their turn, and then go.

EDIT: I reread your post, because somehow I missed that it was a cop. I think I would have nicely asked him if he REALLY wanted each rider to stop and wait their turn, while any drivers behind them had to wait for everyone to do that?

big john 09-28-22 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by Eric F (Post 22662268)
There are a few benches at Brown Saddle. My ride... https://www.strava.com/activities/7877791754

I've never gone down that way except for the time I went down El Prieto and I don't need to do that again. I've also never gone down the Ken Burton trail. Most of the times I've been up there I/we go to the start of Ken Burton and turn around.

LesterOfPuppets 09-28-22 01:02 PM

Glen Canyon Dam employees rollin' trikes yesterday:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...700ff3480d.jpg

datlas 09-28-22 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22662294)
My comment is that they really don't want us EACH to take an individual turn at 4-ways. They might think they do, till the time comes they're behind the group ride and they'd have to wait for EVERYONE to stop, wait for their turn, and then go.

EDIT: I reread your post, because somehow I missed that it was a cop. I think I would have nicely asked him if he REALLY wanted each rider to stop and wait their turn, while any drivers behind them had to wait for everyone to do that?

Yeah sorry I did not explicitly say, he was a cop. I do not know if he was angry because lead riders did not fully stop (they slowed and clearly had right of way), or that we acted as one “unit” so technically we all rolled through even after he was at intersection and technically it was his turn. In any case, none of us stopped so legally we did violate the law. I get that, but NFW we are going to get every cyclist to full stop at every 4-way stop sign any more than we are going to get highway drivers to obey the posted speed limit.

datlas 09-28-22 01:13 PM

One of my cycling friends (the Ironman Tri Guy) owns a place on Sanibel Island. Looks like the eye of Ian is directly over it. I hope his place weathers the storm. He is up here now, obv.

big john 09-28-22 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22662273)
My comment: **** him.

Either your front riders would have been at the intersection first or at the same time, but to the right; your group would have had the right of way, regardless. Slowing and then proceeding, when the right of way is clearly yours, is plenty respectful. I would bet that he would have pulled you guys even if your lead riders came to a full stop but then proceeded through as a group. He'd also probably be pissed to be behind you and have every single one of you come to an individual and complete stop. He just wanted to flex on you spandex-wearing, second-class road users.

There are 98 cities in Los Angeles county and many of them have their own police departments. If not they contract the Sherriff dep't for law enforcement.
Each of these departments can enforce the way they choose, usually depending on complaints by locals. There are training rides which go through cites where the traffic laws are enforced much stricter than other areas. If enough riders piss off enough drivers the cops will hear about it.

As for groups going through stop signs, a group is not a single entity. If a group of cars tried to go through as one they could be ticketed. I know, it's silly for bikes but according to the law, each bike should stop at a stop sign. Most cops are not going to write a group but it has happened here.

Eric F 09-28-22 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662317)
I've never gone down that way except for the time I went down El Prieto and I don't need to do that again. I've also never gone down the Ken Burton trail. Most of the times I've been up there I/we go to the start of Ken Burton and turn around.

El Prieto is technically demanding, for sure, and has places that can bite you hard if you make a mistake. It's nastier now than it was 20 years ago. Ken Burton is too exposed for my comfort level these days.

My route yesterday is the quickest and least-technical way to get off the mountain and back to my house. It's not my favorite route, just the quickest.

big john 09-28-22 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22662330)
Yeah sorry I did not explicitly say, he was a cop. I do not know if he was angry because lead riders did not fully stop (they slowed and clearly had right of way), or that we acted as one “unit” so technically we all rolled through even after he was at intersection and technically it was his turn. In any case, none of us stopped so legally we did violate the law. I get that, but NFW we are going to get every cyclist to full stop at every 4-way stop sign any more than we are going to get highway drivers to obey the posted speed limit.

I think as long as you don't blow through and piss off drivers cops don't care. At least present the appearance of safety.

big john 09-28-22 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by Eric F (Post 22662361)
El Prieto is technically demanding, for sure, and has places that can bite you hard if you make a mistake. It's nastier now than it was 20 years ago. Ken Burton is too exposed for my comfort level these days.

My route yesterday is the quickest and least-technical way to get off the mountain and back to my house. It's not my favorite route, just the quickest.

I fell off a cliff on the Gabrielino in 2007. Since then I don't like riding along cliffs. There is a place on El Prieto where if you make a simple mistake you will fall a long way. People have told me Ken Burton isn't too bad but I have not been on it.

I did the Strawberry Peak loop a few years back. We started at Switzer and came back on the Gabrielino from Red Box. Lots of exposure but I might be talked into it again.

Eric F 09-28-22 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662370)
I fell off a cliff on the Gabrielino in 2007. Since then I don't like riding along cliffs. There is a place on El Prieto where if you make a simple mistake you will fall a long way. People have told me Ken Burton isn't too bad but I have not been on it.

I did the Strawberry Peak loop a few years back. We started at Switzer and came back on the Gabrielino from Red Box. Lots of exposure but I might be talked into it again.

There are a couple of places on El P that I walk these days. I haven't been on Burton in 20 years, but I've seen a couple of relatively recent videos that paint pretty clear picture that I should probably stay away. I won't go anywhere near Sam Merrill or Sunset Ridge.

I wasn't really aware of the Red Box-Switzer section of the Gabrielino trail until last week. It looks interesting.

genejockey 09-28-22 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662364)
I think as long as you don't blow through and piss off drivers cops don't care. At least present the appearance of safety.

I always stop at red lights, and slow to a crawl, or even stop momentarily at stop signs. I get a kick out of watching other riders' approach to the T intersections on one road we all ride. Some completely blow through as if the sign wasn't there. Some come to a complete stop and put a foot down. Most slow to varying degrees, though my slowing to below a walk is more than most. And some, even though they aren't stopping at all, unclip a foot and touch off the ground as they roll through. I guess they figure a cop will say, "Well, you didn't stop, but you DID put your foot down!"

big john 09-28-22 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by Eric F (Post 22662379)
There are a couple of places on El P that I walk these days. I haven't been on Burton in 20 years, but I've seen a couple of relatively recent videos that paint pretty clear picture that I should probably stay away. I won't go anywhere near Sam Merrill or Sunset Ridge.

I wasn't really aware of the Red Box-Switzer section of the Gabrielino trail until last week. It looks interesting.

The last 2 times I did the whole Gabrielino we climbed the Toll Road,, which wasn't rideable in parts because of storm damage. We did it in winter and the first time it took 8 hours. The second time was when I crashed and that day it took 7 hours, partly because after crashing I wanted to hurry and get out of there before I started swelling.

In the early 90s we used to shuttle the Gabrielino. I took my ex wife on one of those trips and she was pretty upset with me for that. She had a cheap mtb and no experience with stuff like that. Amazingly she did not crash even though she hit a protruding rock with her shoulder and got a nasty bruise. In fact the only time I ever saw her fall off a bike was when she slipped on ice on a mountain trail.

MoAlpha 09-28-22 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22662364)
I think as long as you don't blow through and piss off drivers cops don't care. At least present the appearance of safety.

I got a lecture and a written warning a couple of years ago for carefully crossing an empty road on a red after stopping. Maybe the guy was bored or lonely. He said he was okay with cyclists rolling stop signs, FWIW.

Also got laughed at by a DC cop on a group ride, when we saw her at a 4-way stop and actually slowed to an almost-stop for her benefit.

No telling how they'll react.

big john 09-28-22 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 22662415)
I got a lecture and a written warning a couple of years ago for carefully crossing an empty road on a red after stopping. Maybe the guy was bored or lonely. He said he was okay with cyclists rolling stop signs, FWIW.

Also got laughed at by a DC cop on a group ride, when we saw her at a 4-way stop and actually slowed to an almost-stop for her benefit.

No telling how they'll react.

One time a group of us passed a fire station at a tee intersection with stop signs. A couple cops were standing there chatting with some firemen. As we each dutifully stopped the cops started laughing. One said something like "You all would stop like that if we weren't here, right?" "Of course!" I replied.

When we had the national 55mph speed limit I got pulled over for going 60. The guy lectured me and said I was a "bad influence" on other drivers but no ticket.


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