Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

repechage 07-01-15 08:29 AM

Only time I rolled a tire was when a yahoo in a Ford Fairmont decided to gutterball it right beside me on Pacific Coast Highway, there was traffic and he obviously wanted to get ahead. I turned right and my rear axle caught his rear bumper. I then bounced crossed up rear to the other side, landed and rolled the tire. Valve broke right off, kicked the bike back straight underneath me and rolled it out to a stop.
Friends behind me a ways thought for sure I was going down, I am allergic to falling. Dressed the rim nicks when I got home and still have that wheel.

If I was on clinchers, I would have gone down.

gaucho777 07-02-15 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by Lenton58 (Post 17941766)
As I said just above, I do not claim to be an expert. But, that being said, I would still exclaim, "YIKES! That glue looks like it has hardened in the rim and is no longer capable of "waking up" as the tire and rim heat up. The residue looks like merely crystallized crud. If that is the case, it is not capable of forming a bond to any tire, even though it might be difficult to move off the rim itself.

I have removed glue in this condition using a wire brush attachment on a variable speed power drill. It came of as crystallized dust. Typical solvents were not very effective. IMHO, glue in this state of aging is dangerous.

I am assumming that this is what was there when the tubular rolled.

You are indeed correct about the glue being hardened. However, this is a fairly recent picture, though I haven't ridden the rims since i rolled the tire long ago. Your looking at perhaps 28-year-old Clement glue. Current state of the glue doesn't reflect condition when the tire roll occurred. I'm confident the glue wasn't to blame so much as riding the brakes hard on a hot summer day on a fast technical descent (coming down Decker Canyon, for those familiar with the area) and over-heating the wheels. And why was I even using race wheels on a training day I wonder...

OldsCOOL 07-25-15 10:05 AM

I want to encourage anyone avoiding riding tubulars solely because of the fuss of installing/mounting and the mess, lumps, etc etc etc.

My Colnago Super is now wearing Servizio Corse tires using Panaracer glue. I prestretched the tires on their rims for 24hrs at 125psi and just this morning glued them on using the supplied brush in the can. No mess, no lumps, tread ran straight from the get-go. I will note that I went the cheap tubie route for a starters. If this '77 was an open road bike (not with this 15-21 5sp corncob) there would be another consideration. However, the mounting process has been way easier than I expected.

DiabloScott 10-02-15 11:04 AM

Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

OldsCOOL 10-02-15 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Thanx, I'll hardcopy and tape it to my handlebars.

DiabloScott 10-02-15 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by OldsCOOL (Post 18212178)
Thanx, I'll hardcopy and tape it to my handlebars.

Better idea: make a copy and wrap your spare in it.

Kactus 10-02-15 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Took almost as long to read/interpret that as it does to mount a tubular tire.;)

gaucho777 10-02-15 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Step X: Wait an hour after applying glue to rim before mounting tire? That's too long in my experience. And only 1 coat of glue (step IX)? I think 2 coats is the more common procedure. I apply one coat to rim(s), then one coat to tire base strip. Then, after I've finished with the coat on the tire, I add a second thin layer of glue to rim, wait about 20 to 30 minutes, at most, and then mount the tire. I find that if you wait too long after applying the 2nd layer of glue to the rim, the glue becomes too tacky and it's more difficult to reposition the tire if it's not set up straight initially.

Is that last step: Don't touch your handlebars if your hands are covered in glue? ;)

crank_addict 10-02-15 01:36 PM

^^That's too easy. Where's the hardcore vintage? Mix flakes of shellac into denatured alcohol. Keep thinning to a slurry and apply to the rim. Wait a few days 'between' additional coats... and then some. LOL

Peugeotlover 10-02-15 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 18212362)
I think 2 coats is the more common procedure. I apply one coat to rim(s), then one coat to tire base strip. Then, after I've finished with the coat on the tire, I add a second thin layer of glue to rim, wait about 20 to 30 minutes, at most, and then mount the tire. I find that if you wait too long after applying the 2nd layer of glue to the rim, the glue becomes too tacky and it's more difficult to reposition the tire if it's not set up straight initially.


Gaucho, with all due respect, this is a lot more work & glue than is necessary.

Simply dab Half of a 1.1 FL. OZ. tube of Rim Cement on the rim- between the holes- wait 10 minutes, turning the wheel occasionally so the cement does not drip off.

Then, starting the deflated (but pre-stretched) tubular at the valve hole, pull on the tire, working away from the valve equally on both sides.
Then fill the tire while adjusting it to the wheel center.

One 1.1 oz tube is enough to glue two tires on two rims.

OldsCOOL 10-02-15 03:01 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212247)
Better idea: make a copy and wrap your spare in it.

:lol:

DiabloScott 10-02-15 03:03 PM

The first time I glued on a set of tires, I followed the "extreme 6-corner criterium racer in July" method. Then when I later had to remove one of those tires I realized I could safely cut back to the "good enough" method.

gaucho777 10-02-15 03:09 PM

@Peugeotlover, so you aren't putting any glue on the basetape of a new tire? Even though I'm putting on a second coat, I don't feel I'm putting on too much glue. Its not as if it's flowing out the sides when I pump up the tire. By my rough estimation, I'd guess I use roughly 3/4 of the tube per wheel: approximately 25% of a tube on the basetape for a new tire, ~30% of a tube for the first coat on the rim, and ~20% on the second coat. Minus the application of glue on the tire (you do pre-glue the basetape on your spares though, I assume?) we're both putting on about 1/2 a tube on the rim itself.

Did I mention that I also score the basetape with the edge of file as was Faliero Masi's insistence?

Chombi 10-02-15 04:22 PM

Two thin coats of glue on the rim and base tape spread with my bare finger, with a 10 minute waiting period between coats is what works best for me....
And Continental glue in the small yellow tubes all the time!
Only thing I still sometimes still have problems with are some tires are hard to stretch over the rims (even with long term dry install pre-stetching) during installation (Veloflex Criteriums, especially). I think it has something to do with how thick the rubber carcass is under the base tape. Some seem to be way thicker and stiffer than others.

Peugeotlover 10-02-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 18212736)
@Peugeotlover, so you aren't putting any glue on the basetape of a new tire? Even though I'm putting on a second coat, I don't feel I'm putting on too much glue. Its not as if it's flowing out the sides when I pump up the tire. By my rough estimation, I'd guess I use roughly 3/4 of the tube per wheel: approximately 25% of a tube on the basetape for a new tire, ~30% of a tube for the first coat on the rim, and ~20% on the second coat. Minus the application of glue of the tire (you do pre-glue the basetape on your spares though, I assume?) we're both putting on about 1/2 a tube on the rim itself.

Did I mention that I also score the basetape with the edge of file as was Faliero Masi's insistence?


Have yet to put glue on base tape of a tire.

If 3/4 tube and scoring the tape is what you are comfortable with, you should stick with your method.

That is a good idea to put some glue on the base tape of a spare.
Might be messy to fold. So, far I haven't done this, but not a bad idea.

The glue is a lot stronger than you realize, perhaps.
I will continue to use my '1/2 tube on one rim' method which works.
I read about this quantity on a tube of glue that read: "1 tube does 2 rims".

There is no special way.

Kactus 10-02-15 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by Peugeotlover (Post 18213055)
That is a good idea to put some glue on the base tape of a spare.
Might be messy to fold. So, far I haven't done this, but not a bad idea.

I always pre-glue the spare. Just let the glue cure overnight and then fold the spare. It's not messy at all since the glue is dry and won't really adhere to itself unless some heat is generated, i.e. the heat from friction caused by riding.

Lenton58 10-03-15 11:28 PM

I've never put glue on base tape. I've watched my LBS mech, and he doesn't doesn't either. Moreover, I have read all around the net and consulted the manual I've used for decades and found people who skip this step.

But, I don't do screaming descents down mountain switch-backs in late July either. If I did, I think I'd be doing the most involved and intricate method you know the type. It takes two days, and that is not taking stretching into account that is to say (as DiabloScott puts it) the "extreme 6-corner criterium racer in July" method.

So my advice to any novices would be: your safety margin factor my vary. You have to be the responsible judge or just stick to clinchers. Even some pro-mechanics have sent off their riders who later rolled their tubular tires. The older I get, the longer it takes to recover from a fall, so I'm not being cavalier.

I am just about to glue some Vittorio Stradas on a set of Mavic GL 330's. I had to wire-brush off crystallized glue that had cured on like gangbusters for over 25 years. So i am down to bare anodized alloy. I'll but on a base-coat from a can of PanaRacer cement and let it dry for an hour. I'll leave a 15 mm strip either side of the valve so I can break the bond if I flat out or renew the tub. (I carry a spare under the saddle) Before I mount the tubulars that have been streaching on spare wheels for a week, I'll put a thinner, second coat on the rims and wait for it to get just tacky enough so it pulls up strings on the end of my finger. Then I'll mount the Stradas and let them cure for 24 hours.

I think that this is the "good-enough" method for what I do on the road. And it has worked fine for years. And I think it is good enough even though I am (to use repechage's expression) even more allergic to falling than I used to be. (My 'allergy' really began decades ago when I was track road-racing motorcycles.)

I like this old thread even though the subject has been thrashed about in so many places. It's cool when BF members weigh in and put out their own opinions about this important topic of safety and caution.

DiabloScott 10-08-15 11:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I got my first set of sew-ups to do criteriums with a long time ago. I was willing to go less robust and more hassle for the light weight advantage and great cornering... but I really do enjoy the art of the perfect glue-job.

So now that I don't do criteriums anymore, what do I do with my wheels? Well, I buy one new tubular tire every year, ride my sew-ups on my vintage bike until I get a flat, then switch back to my clinchers until next year. New one came in the mail yesterday... doing the install this weekend.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...1007152129.jpg

ThermionicScott 10-08-15 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18227301)
I got my first set of sew-ups to do criteriums with a long time ago. I was willing to go less robust and more hassle for the light weight advantage and great cornering... but I really do enjoy the art of the perfect glue-job.

So now that I don't do criteriums anymore, what do I do with my wheels? Well, I buy one new tubular tire every year, ride my sew-ups on my vintage bike until I get a flat, then switch back to my clinchers until next year. New one came in the mail yesterday... doing the install this weekend.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O...1007152129.jpg

Hmm, picture isn't working for me...

DiabloScott 10-08-15 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 18227562)
Hmm, picture isn't working for me...

Now?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...1007152129.jpg

ThermionicScott 10-08-15 03:15 PM

Much better! :thumb:

Lenton58 10-09-15 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18227301)
... SNIP ... Well, I buy one new tubular tire every year, ride my sew-ups on my vintage bike until I get a flat, then switch back to my clinchers until next year. New one came in the mail yesterday... doing the install this weekend.
...SNIP ...

Now that is a REALLY nice tire! I think the closest tubular I've ever had to them was a set of Clement Condors I inherited on an old wheel set. I just researched prices of the CorespunK, and I can see why you buy only one a year. I'll soon have three bikes on tubulars today only two. I think I'll being staying with the mass-produced versions, but if had the dosh ....

BTW, would it not be worth your time unstitching and repairing a flat on a tub that costs between $70-$90? That's 8,000 to 11,000 Yen for me!

DiabloScott 10-10-15 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Lenton58 (Post 18231146)

BTW, would it not be worth your time unstitching and repairing a flat on a tub that costs between $70-$90? That's 8,000 to 11,000 Yen for me!

Oh of course... and I do... I just suck at it. See?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T...d%252520Up.jpg

Road Fan 10-10-15 04:18 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18232356)
Oh of course... and I do... I just suck at it. See?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T...d%252520Up.jpg

I try to always re-sew it using the original holes.

Chombi 10-10-15 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18232356)
Oh of course... and I do... I just suck at it. See?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T...d%252520Up.jpg

My friend Mr. Frankenstein says that looks just fine!:D


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.