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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 02-02-18 05:18 PM

@PilotFishBob posted this one in the "Looking" thread.


https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d...474065956.html


https://images.craigslist.org/00c0c_...y3_600x450.jpg

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 09:32 AM

I picked these 2 up for $20 each off CL figuring there must be $40 bucks worth of parts between them. one of them is a 1970 Hercules & the other a 1958 Robin Hood Sports. Pretty rough I think I did OK. netted some sweet parts off the 58 RHS.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw

BigChief 02-03-18 10:01 AM

For 20 bucks you did great. I don't know if my memory is correct, but I think you already have a really clean tall frame RH. I know the earlier RIN crank will fit and I wouldn't be surprised if the earlier fork crown cover fit on the later fork. Looks like you could retro fit your good tall frame with the nicer parts from the 58 stepthrough. The steel guide wheel arm would be the wrong direction for a gents frame and they tend to be rusted in place though. So, did you get a good trigger shifter with the 58? How about the pre reflector pedals?

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20148112)
For 20 bucks you did great. I don't know if my memory is correct, but I think you already have a really clean tall frame RH. I know the earlier RIN crank will fit and I wouldn't be surprised if the earlier fork crown cover fit on the later fork. Looks like you could retro fit your good tall frame with the nicer parts from the 58 stepthrough. The steel guide wheel arm would be the wrong direction for a gents frame and they tend to be rusted in place though. So, did you get a good trigger shifter with the 58? How about the pre reflector pedals?

That 23" I picked up in La crosse is now the cleanest one I have but it did need all the shift hardware. This alone paid for the whole mess. The trigger has the screw in ferrule on it haven't seen that. But I think I will use the hardware off the 1970 so the cable casings all match the other robin Hood is a 1969

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw

Ballenxj 02-03-18 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20148050)
I picked these 2 up for $20 each off CL figuring there must be $40 bucks worth of parts between them. one of them is a 1970 Hercules & the other a 1958 Robin Hood Sports. Pretty rough I think I did OK. netted some sweet parts off the 58 RHS.

Sounds like a good score. :thumb:

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20148112)
For 20 bucks you did great. I don't know if my memory is correct, but I think you already have a really clean tall frame RH. I know the earlier RIN crank will fit and I wouldn't be surprised if the earlier fork crown cover fit on the later fork. Looks like you could retro fit your good tall frame with the nicer parts from the 58 stepthrough. The steel guide wheel arm would be the wrong direction for a gents frame and they tend to be rusted in place though. So, did you get a good trigger shifter with the 58? How about the pre reflector pedals?

The 58' has replacement pedals w/reflectors but the pedals off the Lacrosse 23" are badass good. I never considered the pulley arm position -making me think.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 11:38 AM

Looks like the shift pulley arm just rotates 360 when I loosened so no problem.

BigChief 02-03-18 11:38 AM

The 58 shifter should be one like this
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...c6f2a18a_z.jpg009 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

or this
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/...bded98a8_h.jpgmid50s by Billy Bones, on Flickr


The 58 should also have a nice steel fulcrum clip. You may have to do some work on the cables to get them to fit. Don't know. I've never tried swapping them from a stepthrough to gents frame.

Mikier 02-03-18 12:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20145886)
Glad you found us! I can tell by your bike that 3 speeds aren't new to you.

Correct... we rode 3 speeds as far back as I can remember. Earliest photo circa 1964:

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20148239)
The 58 shifter should be one like this
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/...c6f2a18a_z.jpg009 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

or this
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4407/...bded98a8_h.jpgmid50s by Billy Bones, on Flickr


The 58 should also have a nice steel fulcrum clip. You may have to do some work on the cables to get them to fit. Don't know. I've never tried swapping them from a stepthrough to gents frame.

The shifter is identical to the 1st pic you posted -same GB patent number. I like the 2nd one with the viewer more. I am wondering if the entire front fork will swap out I need to measure the frame neck. I have other cables to do a side by side comparison

BigChief 02-03-18 01:51 PM

I've often wondered if a 21"stepthrough fork was the same as a 23" mens frame fork. Never tried it, would like to know.Although some stepthroughs are 19 1/2" But, would the paint match? I'm still thinking that you could swap just the chrome crown cap, but again I don't know for certain. Do you have cable cutters? You'll need them to modify cables. Not a big deal. 15 bucks or 25 for the nicer Park Tool.

dweenk 02-03-18 02:23 PM

@johnnyspaghetti

Don't lose that threaded ferrule or the housing. Even if the inner cable is toast, the other bits are worth saving.

johnnyspaghetti 02-03-18 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20148412)
I've often wondered if a 21"stepthrough fork was the same as a 23" mens frame fork. Never tried it, would like to know.Although some stepthroughs are 19 1/2" But, would the paint match? I'm still thinking that you could swap just the chrome crown cap, but again I don't know for certain. Do you have cable cutters? You'll need them to modify cables. Not a big deal. 15 bucks or 25 for the nicer Park Tool.

I think I can get the paint to come back. The fork has the Sir Walter decals on each side that are amazingly still good. I have cut & crimped many cables. I'll go down that road when i get there.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...9&disp=safe&zw

BigChief 02-03-18 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20148532)
I think I can get the paint to come back. The fork has the Sir Walter decals on each side that are amazingly still good. I have cut & crimped many cables. I'll go down that road when i get there.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...9&disp=safe&zw

I'd love to hear if the crown cap from the 58 fits the later fork if you go that way. It would be another goody for my bag of tricks!

jon.612 02-04-18 07:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Spring is getting closer, and the parts are starting to come together on the '34 Raleigh Sports. It's starting to get more expensive as I locate more authentic parts and ditch the place holders that I've had from the start, but the bike keeps getting better - at least on paper. I have yet to get out in the garage for any meaningful assembly time. I've found a Raleigh fluted crank from the 30's-40's era as well as some 26x1-1/4" tires (tyres) - they are somewhat wrong in that they are going on Westrick rims - they should be Endricks and 650B, not 650A, but some things are difficult to come by. I have a K hub waiting for the right rims to come along. This'll be a long term project.

BigChief 02-04-18 08:39 PM

Looks like they used the same frame for both the Sports and Sports Light Roadster. You could go either way. The roadster version used 650A Endricks. Here's a link to the 1934 catalog:
http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.u...20Library).pdf

jamesj 02-04-18 10:14 PM

So I just did my first tear down of a hub on my 3 speed. The hub was from 79 and I figured it was time for a tear down since the bearings were running very gritty. The inside was pretty clean but I did do a full tear down. I got it back together and it works perfectly.

The only thing I noticed is that on the sprocket side I have some play in the sprocket area, when adjusting it tighter it binds. I also adjusted the non drive side and do have some play overall on the hub. I adjusted as best I could. I even have the tiny sturmy archer hub adjustment tool to fit on that cone and I still get some play. Is this normal?

Here is a video of the drive side.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesl...in/dateposted/

johnnyspaghetti 02-05-18 04:54 AM


Originally Posted by jon.612 (Post 20150736)
Spring is getting closer, and the parts are starting to come together on the '34 Raleigh Sports. It's starting to get more expensive as I locate more authentic parts and ditch the place holders that I've had from the start, but the bike keeps getting better - at least on paper. I have yet to get out in the garage for any meaningful assembly time. I've found a Raleigh fluted crank from the 30's-40's era as well as some 26x1-1/4" tires (tyres) - they are somewhat wrong in that they are going on Westrick rims - they should be Endricks and 650B, not 650A, but some things are difficult to come by. I have a K hub waiting for the right rims to come along. This'll be a long term project.

Interesting angular on that frame. and you are local.

BigChief 02-05-18 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20151077)
So I just did my first tear down of a hub on my 3 speed. The hub was from 79 and I figured it was time for a tear down since the bearings were running very gritty. The inside was pretty clean but I did do a full tear down. I got it back together and it works perfectly.

The only thing I noticed is that on the sprocket side I have some play in the sprocket area, when adjusting it tighter it binds. I also adjusted the non drive side and do have some play overall on the hub. I adjusted as best I could. I even have the tiny sturmy archer hub adjustment tool to fit on that cone and I still get some play. Is this normal?

Here is a video of the drive side.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesl...in/dateposted/

You do want to leave some play in the hub bearings. More than you would on the bottom bracket or headset. That looks like a bit too much, but it's hard to say. There's times where I thought I set the cones perfectly, but when I mounted the wheel in the frame, it flopped side to side too much and I had to readjust. I think the best way to adjust them is to mount the wheel in the frame and wiggle the rim side to side. You can be more accurate that way. You don't want it tight, you want a bit of play there. If you have a second little SA cone spanner, you can leave the wheel in the frame while you make the adjustment and only have to loosen the axle nut.

johnnyspaghetti 02-05-18 06:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20148715)
I'd love to hear if the crown cap from the 58 fits the later fork if you go that way. It would be another goody for my bag of tricks!

I have this frame striped out. Its a nice straight 23" DL22L. Breaks my heart the frame is good.

Who wants it? It is bare other than the drive side BB race cup that may or may not be any good. I just bagged the spindle & balls & cup with only a glance the drive side spindle race looking questionable. It does have the spring cap oiler port.

I have not done the headset on the other Robin Hood as of yet and the forks appear identical the only difference being the drop outs barrel end VS blade end. The crown cap dropped out nicely when I knocked the the lower race off. I am 99% sure they will swap right out. The frame necks measure out 6-9/16" + or - 0.100 between the 4-23" Raleigh built frames I have. I sold off the 1960 DL22L 23" about 3 weeks ago I will assume it would measure consistent with that.
I know you like to see little differences between the years hear is one you may be aware of on the rear of the chain cover. The bent 1969 cover is cut round on the rear mount as the 1958 comes to a point with a raised dimple & the decals have a very slight difference.

Attachment 598251

BigChief 02-05-18 07:02 AM

I wasn't aware of 23" stepthroughs. I've only seen 19 1/2 and 21. And there's the problem. I've noticed on this thread that the 3 speeders here tend to be riders more than collectors and don't have much use for a bike that doesn't fit them. On top of that, we seem to be almost exclusively grown men who, on average, are too tall for the smaller frames. That leaves tall framed bikes at a premium. Since bikes are meant to be ridden, it only makes sense to cannibalize less useful bikes to keep more useful bikes on the road. Thanks for the chainguard tip. I'll take a closer look at them.

Super.bee 02-05-18 10:02 AM

23" step thrus
 
I salvaged a black 23" Robin Hood step through frame fork and chain guard that I found in a scrap metal bin. It had a shop label from Chicago and a bike registration sticker from Wichita I think. I added salvaged fenders and wheels and rode it for a couple years before selling. I'm 6'-0" and it was a nicer fit than the 21's I otherwise have but it was time to make room for a new project. I'll see if I have any photos.

Super.bee 02-05-18 10:09 AM

tear down
 

Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20151077)
So I just did my first tear down of a hub on my 3 speed. The hub was from 79 and I figured it was time for a tear down since the bearings were running very gritty. The inside was pretty clean but I did do a full tear down. I got it back together and it works perfectly.

The only thing I noticed is that on the sprocket side I have some play in the sprocket area, when adjusting it tighter it binds. I also adjusted the non drive side and do have some play overall on the hub. I adjusted as best I could. I even have the tiny sturmy archer hub adjustment tool to fit on that cone and I still get some play. Is this normal?

Here is a video of the drive side.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesl...in/dateposted/

May I ask what degreaser you're using? I've just opened one up for first time in years. I have it a good soak in WD-40 before opening, and that really loosened chunks of old oil. But some still clings. I'd like to avoid extensive brushing or wiping if possible. I have a number of hubs I'd like to overhaul - there's always someone throwing away old aw hub rusty rimmed wheels and it seems like a waste to not at least pick the hubs for some happier future use.

johnnyspaghetti 02-05-18 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20151469)
I wasn't aware of 23" stepthroughs. I've only seen 19 1/2 and 21. And there's the problem. I've noticed on this thread that the 3 speeders here tend to be riders more than collectors and don't have much use for a bike that doesn't fit them. On top of that, we seem to be almost exclusively grown men who, on average, are too tall for the smaller frames. That leaves tall framed bikes at a premium. Since bikes are meant to be ridden, it only makes sense to cannibalize less useful bikes to keep more useful bikes on the road. Thanks for the chainguard tip. I'll take a closer look at them.

This is what this frame measured center of crank to top of seat post tube.
Am I doing that right?

The other bike I picked up at the same time for another $20 a 1970 AMF Herc. has some oddities to it & has a 5-3/4" frame neck. That one is getting part-ed out as well. Let me ask this.

Will 26 x 1-1/4" tires swap with 26 X 1-3/8" 37-590?

BigChief 02-05-18 12:54 PM

I never paid enough attention to 70s catalogs. 23" DL22L is not mentioned in catalogs up to 1970. I don't have access to a 71 catalog, but it does appear in the 1972 catalog. Those are Raleigh catalogs. Don't know about the Robin Hood line.

nlerner 02-05-18 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20151973)
Will 26 x 1-1/4" tires swap with 26 X 1-3/8" 37-590?

26 x 1 1/4 is usually = EA1/597mm wheels, so, no. I have seen some odd markings on tires over the years, so the ISO number (e.g., 590, 597) is the best guide.

johnnyspaghetti 02-05-18 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20152460)
26 x 1 1/4 is usually = EA1/597mm wheels, so, no. I have seen some odd markings on tires over the years, so the ISO number (e.g., 590, 597) is the best guide.

Thanks, I have a good set of 597's. EA1, I'll keep that in mind. That's what I thought.

browngw 02-05-18 04:35 PM

Bad Memory Time! Which side of a Raleigh DL1 front wheel has the so called fixed side? It seems to make sense it would be the drive side? Why they built axles without lock nuts is just weird.

nlerner 02-05-18 05:47 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20152730)
Bad Memory Time! Which side of a Raleigh DL1 front wheel has the so called fixed side? It seems to make sense it would be the drive side? Why they built axles without lock nuts is just weird.

Yup, the non-drive side is where the adjustable cone should be.

BigChief 02-05-18 07:47 PM

The way I always remembered is, both wheel bearings adjust on the left side. On the rear hub, you do screw the cone down and back it off, but you can't get a fine adjustment because the cone is fixed to the axle flat by that special washer, so the final adjustment is done on the non drive side same as the front wheel.


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