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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Gasbag 08-04-15 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18043767)
I never noticed this before, but do you suppose it was deliberate on Raleigh's part to rout the brake cables differently than the home market for bikes exported to America? Didn't do a lot of research, but the English catalogs I see on line all show right hand to front cable routing and the American catalogs show right hand to rear. That would explain the the right hand to front brakes on my DL-1. Right hand to front was the standard and they just didn't bother to change the rod linkage for export.

From the U.S. Consumer product Safety Commission: Bicycle Requirements Business Guidance | CPSC.gov
(b) Hand levers have to be on the handlebars and readily usable. The distance between middle of a hand lever and the handlebar may be no wider than 3 inches (3 inches for levers on sidewalk bicycles). Unless a customer specifies otherwise, the hand lever that operates the rear brake must be on the right handlebar. The lever that operates the front brake must be on the left handlebar. A lever that operates both brakes may be on either handlebar. Please note that, if a bicycle has hand lever extensions, all tests are conducted with the extensions in place.

From the National Cycling Charity (British regulations): Safety Regulations | CTC
One might suppose that the remaining provisions of this regulation were comparatively trivial, and so they are. Every new bicycle has to come with:
  1. Any hand-operated brakes arranged left-hand rear, right-hand front

noglider 08-04-15 01:04 PM

The Italians route their brake cables the same way as the British. The French do it the same way as the Americans. Go figure. To my mind, it doesn't make much difference if the rider is conscious of how they are routed and what it means. I've been doing it the American way all my life and don't want to switch, but given that most people are right handed, I think the British way makes a little more sense. I say that because it is reflexive to use your dominant hand more, and on dry surfaces, the front brake is the more useful one. Half the people I survey believe it's better to rely on the rear brake primarily, and they are wrong.

Bandera 08-04-15 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18044083)
The Italians route their brake cables the same way as the British.

For the traditional Cyclo Cross NDS dismount/carry/run/remount technique the right brake lever is Front.

-Bandera

Fidbloke 08-04-15 01:26 PM

It's definitely RH=Front, LH=Rear in Britain. Or least, it has been on any bike I've been on.
Some people I know have warned me about hiring a bike on the Continent. They have their brakes the other way round. My Dad hired a mountain bike in Central France a few years back, and found this out. You get used to it eventually..

I didn't know they were arranged like that in the States as well.?

Velocivixen 08-04-15 01:52 PM

I sometimes route my brake cables based on what looks better. If a side pull brake has cable entering on the drive side, I may use the right brake lever for the front, for example. For me it doesn't matter.

Salubrious 08-04-15 02:41 PM

I tend to put the front brake on the right, since that is the way it is on my motorbikes.

Slash5 08-04-15 05:02 PM

Swapping the brake levers from the "usual" locations leads to YouTube and "funniest home" videos. Seen it a couple of times.

Commando 08-04-15 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18043963)
From the U.S. Consumer product Safety Commission: Bicycle Requirements Business Guidance | CPSC.gov
(b) Hand levers have to be on the handlebars and readily usable. The distance between middle of a hand lever and the handlebar may be no wider than 3 inches (3 inches for levers on sidewalk bicycles). Unless a customer specifies otherwise, the hand lever that operates the rear brake must be on the right handlebar. The lever that operates the front brake must be on the left handlebar. A lever that operates both brakes may be on either handlebar. Please note that, if a bicycle has hand lever extensions, all tests are conducted with the extensions in place.

I wonder why the decision was made to have the front brake operated by the left hand. Early on, motorcycles eventually came to use the right hand to operate the front brake. In fact, US standards forced British motorcycle manufacturers to convert the rear brake pedal from the left to the right in the 70's so both brakes were operated on the same side. This also moved the gear change to the left and made for some gangly looking linkages and serious costs.

I can swap easily between both on my modern motorcycles and old British bikes, however.


I think the British way makes a little more sense. I say that because it is reflexive to use your dominant hand more, and on dry surfaces, the front brake is the more useful one
I've never given the bicycle levers a thought as to what is right and wrong, and took no notice of the "national" difference until recently. If the front brake lever is on the left though, I usually switch it over to the right bar to stay in line with my motorcycles and for the reasons mentioned by Noglider.

BigChief 08-04-15 06:26 PM

Well, this explains why the brake levers are reversed from what I'm used to on my old DL-1. This is a great forum, learning new things all the time.
I don't know why I should be surprised that some bureaucracy is demanding a particular cable routing on bicycles, but I am. I suppose I'm hopelessly old fashioned.

michaelz28 08-04-15 08:26 PM

my 69 schwinn stingray is right rear ..they all should be

Sixty Fiver 08-04-15 09:31 PM

I run all my bikes right front / moto as do my children... it may have started with my Rudge which had this set up and since I used to ride motorcycles this was pretty natural for me.

I always have to warn people if they take my bikes for a spin... especially on those bikes that have really powerful brakes.

Narhay 08-06-15 11:27 AM

I've been looking at a number of wheels on the Raleigh superbes I have kicking around the house. I've noticed that their 2, 3 and 4 cross lacing patterns are over over over instead of over over under. Anyone else notice this with their wheels? I've relaced them with aluminum rims and corrected it but it seems like they were built that way.

thumpism 08-06-15 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 18050668)
...cross lacing patterns are over over over instead of over over under. Anyone else notice this with their wheels? it seems like they were built that way.

My three Sportses are like that and most others I've seen as well. Might have been cheaper to produce that way.

I ride both bikes and motorcycles and keep the brakes left-front on the bicycles with no ill effect.

markk900 08-06-15 02:39 PM

I'm with @thumpism: don't have any problem making the switch to whatever side the brakes are on, though I will cop to trying too downshift my Ducati single with the rear brake once....

BigChief 08-07-15 08:26 AM

A while ago, I bought a 55 Rudge Sports in terrible condition so I could have fun doing a total restoration and maybe some customization without wrecking a bike that deserved preservation. It has a 70s SA trigger with only a small broken bit of the original plastic cover under the screw, so I've been looking for an earlier trigger to keep the 1950s feel. I knew a fellow who had a 3 or 4 speed 50s window trigger in very good condition for sale, but I thought somebody polished off the chrome plating from the faceplate, leaving it plain brass, so I didn't buy it. Later I found the same trigger on a salvage bike that had been left outside for years and restored it as best as I could. It was rusty and pitted, but the chromed faceplate was in very good condition. Then I figured that I should buy the clean trigger and swap the faceplates so I could have a really good one for my Rudge and put the ruined plate on the pitted case and have a useable but messed up 50s trigger for a future project. So, I stopped by and bought the trigger with the ruined faceplate. On closer inspection with an eye loupe, I was surprised to see the brass trigger had traces of brass plating on the band and not a trace of chrome. It was now almost all bare steel. Also, not a trace of chrome anywhere on the faceplate. Not even in the corners of the embossed logo. I now believe this trigger was originally made with an all brass finish even though I have never seen this in my experience or research of old English bikes.
Today, I see this eBay listing. Now I'm totally convinced SA offered these triggers in a decorative brass finish. So, just another bit of SA minutiae for us 3 speed enthusiasts.
Vintage Sturmey Archer 3 Speed Trigger 1 Raleigh BSA Rudge Hercules | eBay

Gasbag 08-07-15 09:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The only difference between these two triggers is the one on the left was ultrasonically cleaned in an oxalic acid bath. Antiquing on the cheap!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469757

BigChief 08-07-15 01:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I don't believe they use brass in the chrome plating process. I could be wrong, I believe they use nickel. There's no doubt that the mounting band and rivet heads of this shifter have traces of brass plating and not a hint of chrome. The one I restored was out in the weather for years and the band retains almost all of it's chrome plating. Although I did use Evapo-rust and not oxalic acid on my restoration. That didn't disturb the remaining chrome at all. Not sure if oxalic acid dissolves chrome and leaves traces of brass colored plating. But why soak a perfectly clean, unrusted shifter in oxalic acid?
I'm still thinking it was made with a decorative brass finish. This is my Evapo-rust soaked trigger.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469774

dweenk 08-07-15 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18053548)
The only difference between these two triggers is the one on the left was ultrasonically cleaned in an oxalic acid bath. Antiquing on the cheap!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=469757

The trigger on the left looks horrible. Are you saying that OA did that? That has not been my experience with OA, but I would like to know details.

Gasbag 08-07-15 04:23 PM

This one has me stumped too. I would expect copper under chrome. I was cleaning a batch of rusty small parts and did the trigger because it was pretty dirty and had surface rust. I was surprised that it came out brass and it didn't hurt the paint either. None of the other chrome was effected other than the rust was gone. It matches the tarnished brass bell on my DL1 so that is where it is going. The plastic trigger never appealed to me anyway.

JohnDThompson 08-07-15 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18054261)
I'm still thinking it was made with a decorative brass finish.

On the specimen I have here, it appears there is a brass face plate overlying the rest of the mechanism:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/sa3or4.jpg

BigChief 08-07-15 08:54 PM

Another one! Well, If these came from the factory this way or not, one thing I can say for certain is...If you're planning on de-rusting an old SA shifter, use Evaporust. I know from experience that it won't remove the chrome from the embossed brass faceplate.

jamesj 08-07-15 11:44 PM

started taking the superbe apart and was wondering if the dynohub worked. I was able to get this from it. the front bulb is burned out. Question how does one clean out the bearing on this hub?

https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xaf1/v/t42.1790-2/11830365_10207467239628468_1626547469_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjY4NywicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoicmVzXzQyNl9jcmZfMjNfbWFpbl8zLjBfc2QifQ%3D%3D&rl=687&vabr=382&oh=53e9f1d110165a705fb3e0207a4505e9&oe=55C5BE8F

Velocivixen 08-08-15 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 18055639)
started taking the superbe apart and was wondering if the dynohub worked. I was able to get this from it. the front bulb is burned out. Question how does one clean out the bearing on this hub?

https://video-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xaf1/v/t42.1790-2/11830365_10207467239628468_1626547469_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjY4NywicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoicmVzXzQyNl9jcmZfMjNfbWFpbl8zLjBfc2QifQ%3D%3D&rl=687&vabr=382&oh=53e9f1d110165a705fb3e0207a4505e9&oe=55C5BE8F


I used the the links on the Sturmey Archer Heritage site. There are instructions on how to disassemble & reassemble their Dyno hubs. Here's a PDF manual for servicing all their hubs up to 1960.

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Gasbag 08-08-15 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18055391)
Another one! Well, If these came from the factory this way or not, one thing I can say for certain is...If you're planning on de-rusting an old SA shifter, use Evaporust. I know from experience that it won't remove the chrome from the embossed brass faceplate.

I hit the de-chromed shifter with metal polish and it is indeed brass, actually looks pretty nice now.

My theory. Chrome over brass instead of copper made for less than ideal adhesion. The faceplate has a very thin layer of chrome (it possibly could be a plating other than chrome, though I wouldn't know what). Being a manly man and following the "if a little is good, more is better" way of thinking, I had a pretty strong oxalic acid mix in the tank. The ultrasonic tank that I have is an L&R professional model and cleans very aggressively. All combined for removing the plating.

Or, the mischievous troll that lives under my work bench and delights in hiding my drill chuck key has a new trick up his sleeve.

Gasbag 08-08-15 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 18055222)
On the specimen I have here, it appears there is a brass face plate overlying the rest of the mechanism:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/sa3or4.jpg

That sir, is an odd duck. Second style spring, making it post 1948. Pat GB rather than Pat No. making it post 1950. 3 or 4 speed making it pre 1953.

The embossed stamping is what really makes it stand out from the crowd.

That is a handsome trigger.


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