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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

ascherer 01-26-16 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18487516)
@ascherer, Larry might have some. Also, since Hal at Bicycle Habitat will know what it is, perhaps he stocks old parts, too. I don't know, but it's worth asking.

I have an entire cottered two-chainring crankset from a Falcon 10-speed bike. I don't know if the spindle has the same dimensions. Perhaps not, but maybe it would work anyway.

I'm going to check in with Larry this weekend. I think I'll need the drive side arm and chainwheel too. I may very well have a spindle in my storage unit - not sure what I kept when my old teacher gave me a ton of old gear, and then after I downsized to move to the city. I do know that if I ever find a Raleigh Pro or International frameset (your new build has made me too jealous) I have enough components stored to put together a sweet period-appropriate build! Seeing those parts always makes me dream, even though I don't have room for anything.

noglider 01-26-16 10:32 AM

The Raleigh Pro is made of a fairly common design, and if you are not sentimental about Raleigh Pros, you could probably get an equivalent bike from some other maker. As far as I can tell, it's a short-but-not-too-short-wheelbase road racer. The International seems to be of a more uncommon design, though I could be wrong. It's a long-ish-wheelbase sport tourer made of lighter material than other frames of that design.

You will get an International if you want one and keep watching. They're out there. In the meantime, you're welcome to try mine.

I think you could make a townie 3-speed out of one. Hasn't someone in this thread already done that?

adventurepdx 01-26-16 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18487775)
You will get an International if you want one and keep watching. They're out there. In the meantime, you're welcome to try mine...I think you could make a townie 3-speed out of one. Hasn't someone in this thread already done that?

I don't know about a "townie" International three speed, but @AZORCH has a "roadie" International three speed:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3907/...6afcce90_b.jpg
https://marksbikes.wordpress.com/bikes/

Sixty Fiver 01-26-16 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18487939)
I don't know about a "townie" International three speed, but @AZORCH has a "roadie" International three speed:

That is hella sweet... I keep looking for an International but they keep coming up in the wrong size.

If this goes on for much longer I will have to fire up the torch and build my own.

:D

Velocivixen 01-26-16 11:52 AM

What's the smallest size they made for an International?

noglider 01-26-16 12:34 PM

Uh oh. I hope I don't create a run on them, increasing demand and the market value.

Listen, folks, the Raleigh International is a piece of crap. Just avoid it, OK?

noglider 01-26-16 12:36 PM

@Velocivixen, according to Sheldon's page on the model, there were a 20.5" and a 21.5" size.

Velocivixen 01-26-16 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18488170)
@Velocivixen, according to Sheldon's page on the model, there were a 20.5" and a 21.5" size.

Don't worry. I rarely find anything in my size that is of broader interest. ;)

noglider 01-26-16 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18488180)
Don't worry. I rarely find anything in my size that is of broader interest. ;)

I won't worry, as you and I don't need the same size. ;)

gster 01-26-16 10:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18488184)
I won't worry, as you and I don't need the same size. ;)

Need I remind you that this is a family forum. Settle down.

Slash5 01-27-16 09:35 AM

Seems a shame to do that to an International or Professional. A 3 speed isn't going to be light, might as well use a Grand Prix - and they are dime a dozen.

http://i.imgur.com/JfRLKRD.jpg

nlerner 01-27-16 04:57 PM

When I first got my Raleigh Int'l (as a frameset), I set it up with a Nexus 8-speed IGH and upright bars:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F...ational8_7.jpg

I commuted with that configuration for a while until I realized that I preferred derailleurs.

gster 01-27-16 05:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This guy in Vancouver has a lot of NOS parts including spindles.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=501005

Bike Wizard by Ozz specializing in Restorations of Vintage and Old Bicycles - Vintage Retro & Cruiser bikes Gone Past

BigChief 01-27-16 05:09 PM

Building a bike like this has been a daydream with me for years. That is a fine looking Grand Prix, but for me, emotion trumps practicality. It's the idea of building an internal geared, fendered, upright townie just like the vintage 3 speeds I know and love, but with lighter, higher end components. That would mean a 531 frame. I prefer medium ratio gear spread, so it looks like I'd use one of the modern IG hubs since AM, S5 and FM Sturmey Archer hubs are so hard to find.

noglider 01-27-16 05:17 PM

@BigChief, which hubs have the most closely spaced gears? I don't like the 3- and 5-speed hubs that I've used for that reason.

BigChief 01-27-16 06:50 PM

My problem with the AW is the 33% jump from normal to overdrive. For me anyway, overdrive is too tall to be useful. So then I gear the whole business down with a 22T cog and I get a nice tempo for flat roads in overdrive, but except for a really stiff headwind, normal is too low. I'll use it, but the quick tempo is awkward. Underdrive turns into a granny that is sometimes useful for things like sandy paths and lawns. I have the percent changes for all the SA hubs, but not here with me in rainy Florida. I do have the difference between the AW and S5. Here they are:
AW -25% 0 + 33%
S5 -33 1/3% -21.1% 0 +26.6% +50%
So essentially, with the bell crank cable slack, the S5 is a AM. You can access the -33% granny and the silly tall overdrive with the bell crank shifter.
Sturmey Archer close and medium ratio hubs are rare as hens teeth.

adventurepdx 01-27-16 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 18490286)
Seems a shame to do that to an International or Professional. A 3 speed isn't going to be light, might as well use a Grand Prix - and they are dime a dozen.

I wouldn't say a three speed can't be light! And yeah, Grand Prixs are a dime a dozen, but I think it's more the idea of building up a lightweight "clubman" style bike. It's pretty hard to find the original clubmans here in the States. While nabbing an International, Professional, or even a Super Course isn't always easy, either, it's still easier than finding an old Lenton!

BigChief 01-28-16 04:06 AM

Ah...found it. Sheldon Brown's site of course. Percent changes of SA FM and FC hubs:
Maintenance Instructions for Sturmey-Archer FM & FC Medium & Close Ratio Four-Speed Hubs

smontanaro 01-28-16 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18491942)
My problem with the AW is the 33% jump from normal to overdrive.

That seems to be a common complaint. I'm surprised the AM wasn't more widely used. Was there some practical matter which made the AW the go to 3sp hub for decades? It couldn't have been the gearing.

Hmmm... Maybe add a half-step double up front.

BigChief 01-28-16 11:57 AM

I figure those of us with complaints of the AW's spacing must be in the extreme minority. The wide ratio hubs must outnumber mediums 100 to 1. Even the new, redesigned SA AW hub has the same ratios.As far as I know , only top of the line Clubmans ever used the close ratio hubs. So, if I ever get around to building my daydream bike, I'll use one of the modern IG hubs. It will be a shot in the dark though. I have no idea how well they function. How reliable they are. I figure that if Pashley uses a Shimano 8 speed, it can't be bad. I suppose...make that hope...I could learn how to service it.

adventurepdx 01-28-16 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18493606)
I figure those of us with complaints of the AW's spacing must be in the extreme minority.

Exactly! ;)

You have to remember that the majority of three speed bicycles were "utility" bikes, where having a wide range gears is useful and practical. And the narrow range hubs stayed on the "racy" bikes.

Me, I wish the gap between low and medium was bigger. I'd have preferred it if it was 66%-100%-133% than 75%-100%-133%. If I could redesign the AW, that's what I'd do.

Salubrious 01-28-16 12:52 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 18490286)
. A 3 speed isn't going to be light, might as well use a Grand Prix - and they are dime a dozen.

I got my Bates down to 22 pounds. Not sure if that is considered 'light' but it works for me. FWIW though it uses an alloy hub made about 1952. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=501135

IronDan 01-28-16 02:25 PM

I just picked up another 3 speed that I won on EBay for the sum of 2.70 or $3.88

it's a 1980 Raleigh Transit with the original Brooks saddle, saddle bag and side stand.
I thought from the sellers pics that it had white paint all over it but after picking it up it turns out that it's bird poo where it's been stored in a barn :)

http://i.pictr.com/fzzs1ic3pv.jpg

3speedslow 01-28-16 02:31 PM

You forgot to mention the bell! That is another nice brown one to show up here. I would like more details and pics of that saddle bag. Plaid at that!

Good catch.

ascherer 01-28-16 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18487775)
The Raleigh Pro is made of a fairly common design, and if you are not sentimental about Raleigh Pros, you could probably get an equivalent bike from some other maker.

Sentiment is exactly the point. '73 Pro in Mink Blue/Silver is a Grail bike for me, along with the PX-10 that I got. The International isn't but I know what a great frame it is.


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