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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

waverley610 04-18-12 12:06 PM

Direct from original owner who rode & toured this machine for 54 years before ill health ended his wheeling. A little air into the rear tyre and rode out 20 miles on Sunday.

JAMES Arrow Ace 1954 James Cycle Co Ltd London & Birmingham (1880-1966)

All Reynolds 531 but the frame broke in '56 and when James replaced they no longer were using 531 so sent a bonderized frame with close matching paint; see the original shade of green on 531 forks...





https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...0/IMG_0062.JPG

Otherwise pretty much all original, the FW4 alloy hub was fitted with an extra cog for touring Scotland, England, France, Belgium; (the simplex shifter wore out and was discarded years ago!), working Miller dynamo & lamps.



https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9...2/IMG_0079.JPG

Arrow Ace 'cycling' magazine 1953 advertisement

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/IMG_0064.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5...2/IMG_0061.JPG

I will not be touching the cosmetics of this ride; a wipe down with an oily rag,
a new spoke & tyre plus some very minor work under way, back to '54 spec.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w...2/IMG_0068.JPG

photogravity 04-18-12 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by waverley610 (Post 14114452)
Direct from original owner who rode & toured this machine for 54 years before ill health ended his wheeling. A little air into the rear tyre and rode out 20 miles on Sunday.

JAMES Arrow Ace 1954 James Cycle Co Ltd London & Birmingham (1880-1966)

All Reynolds 531 but the frame broke in '56 and when James replaced they no longer were using 531 so sent a bonderized frame with close matching paint; see the original shade of green on 531 forks...

Otherwise pretty much all original, the FW4 alloy hub was fitted with an extra cog for touring Scotland, England, France, Belgium; (the simplex shifter wore out and was discarded years ago!), working Miller dynamo & lamps.

Arrow Ace 'cycling' magazine 1953 advertisement

I will not be touching the cosmetics of this ride; a wipe down with an oily rag,
a new spoke & tyre plus some very minor work under way, back to '54 spec.

Hey waverley610, nice bike! What is the date stamp on the hub? I like the way the two cogs were sandwiched together to give some extra gearing options. I've seen that trick but haven't use it before. BTW, why are you posting a 4-speed bike in the 3-speed thread? :P

waverley610 04-18-12 02:26 PM

Thanks. Could have gone in the 'saved from the dump' or 'show us your vintage touring bikes' threads just as easily.

Hub is a 54 2; technically an 8 speed !? I had to post here being a hub gear man who finds derailleur's hard enough to spell let alone ride !

Would be a hard to learn trick jumping between those cogs I imagine but maybe something to play with in the future.

Hubs all the way!

photogravity 04-18-12 03:09 PM


Originally Posted by waverley610 (Post 14115131)
Thanks. Could have gone in the 'saved from the dump' or 'show us your vintage touring bikes' threads just as easily.

Hub is a 54 2; technically an 8 speed !? I had to post here being a hub gear man who finds derailleur's hard enough to spell let alone ride !

Would be a hard to learn trick jumping between those cogs I imagine but maybe something to play with in the future.

Hubs all the way!

Ouch, I once again stand corrected! :bang:

Actually, 3-speed, 4-speed, 8-speed - I'm not one to judge. If they allow 4-speed bikes to ride in the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour, who am I keep someone from placing a nice English 4-speed or 8-speed IGH bike in this thread. ;)

All you need to do is loosen the nuts on the axle, adjust the chain, adjust the shifter linkage and you're back on your merry way. I would imagine it taking less than 5 minutes with some practice.

I noticed the chainring sitting on the ground in front of the bike in one of the pictures. Do you plan to put it back on the bike at some point in the future?

DaytonaMike 04-25-12 09:16 PM

New to me Raleigh.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Trying a post with a picture for the first time. Here is my 73 Raleigh Sports. I love this bike.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246715

Andrew R Stewart 04-25-12 09:29 PM

5 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246720http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246721http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246722http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246723http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246724I built a frame for this SA alloy hub I had on my shelf for 30+ years. Decided to be a bit creative in the frame style... Andy.

yellowbarber 04-26-12 06:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I picked this AW hub out of a parts bin last week. It's a '49, and the driver is threaded where there's usually a lock-ring. Any ideas what that's for?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246773

Andrew R Stewart 04-26-12 07:07 AM

yellowbarber- With the ability to coast a threaded on cog doesn't need a lockring to hold it on. there's no loosening forces, think about a classic threaded freewheel. The SA threaded driver is long enough to handle a second cog. In fact some companies made such, like Cyclo. I have a Raleigh Twenty (not a Raleigh DL-20) out on a 30+ years loan with a SA FW hub and two cogs. It uses a Huret deraillure to get 8 gears. Andy.

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart (Post 14146195)

Brilliant !

Amesja 04-26-12 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart (Post 14147111)
yellowbarber- With the ability to coast a threaded on cog doesn't need a lockring to hold it on. there's no loosening forces, think about a classic threaded freewheel. The SA threaded driver is long enough to handle a second cog. In fact some companies made such, like Cyclo. I have a Raleigh Twenty (not a Raleigh DL-20) out on a 30+ years loan with a SA FW hub and two cogs. It uses a Huret deraillure to get 8 gears. Andy.

Yup, a single cog on a threaded driver of a Sturmey hub has no more need of a locknut than does a threaded freewheel assembly on a threaded multi-speed derailleur hub -or a single freewheel cog for that matter. It only looks odd in comparison to fixed hubs because they are rare and people are unaccustomed to seeing them.

I suppose the forces required to loosen the cog for removal made it a real PITA to do so that's why SA abandoned the threaded cog design in favor of the tab & lockring setup we still see today. I wonder if there was a special factory-approved tool designed to fit the driver into that was intended to help the cog removal process instead of just plopping the driver over a likely-looking bit of angle iron or other flange? It still requires the removal of the driver from the hub to remove the threaded cog unless there is a trick that I don't know about.

rhm 04-26-12 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 14100496)

Oh, great. Now I want a chain case, too.

Amesja 04-26-12 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14147250)
Oh, great. Now I want a chain case, too.

Yellow Jersey has them.

JohnDThompson 04-26-12 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 14147064)
I picked this AW hub out of a parts bin last week. It's a '49, and the driver is threaded where there's usually a lock-ring. Any ideas what that's for?

Sturmey-Archer used threaded drivers until about 1952 when they changed to the now familiar splined driver. Removing the cogs from the threaded driver can be a PITA, so the recommended fix is to replace the threaded driver with a splined driver from a newer hub.

JohnDThompson 04-26-12 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14147250)
Oh, great. Now I want a chain case, too.

Only until you get a flat tire. :(

rhm 04-26-12 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 14147294)
Only until you get a flat tire. :(

Oh, but I don't want a flat tire. I really don't like flat tires much at all, though I'm pretty sure I get more than my fair share of them.

My Fothergill has a '39 AW hub with two cogs and a Resilion derailleur, a derailleur that shifts okay but is a real PITA when it comes to removing/replacing the rear wheel. When I get a flat on that, I patch the tube without removing the wheel. It's the only way.

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14147250)
Oh, great. Now I want a chain case, too.

Fenways bike rates a change to the rating scale as it is a definite eleven.

rhm 04-26-12 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14147609)
Fenways bike rates a change to the rating scale as it is a definite eleven.

Yeah! That's exactly it! I vote to ban. Humph.

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 09:14 AM

I have used tyre sealant on my old three speeds with great success in that over the past 6 years have never experienced a flat and discovered that over the winter these tyres lose no air pressure. The fellow I sold my superbe to said he has rarely needed to even top up the tyres and he has been riding it for three years.

My wifes igh equipped bike runs marathon supremes as it also has a full chaincase and she has never had a flat while owning and riding this bike for what is now six years and she puts down a lot of miles.

rhm 04-26-12 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14147642)
I have used tyre sealant on my old three speeds with great success...

I did that for a while, and thought it a great success, until the problems added up and I soured on the idea. The problems I found were:

--patches won't hold to those tubes. I know, some people say it is possible; and obviously if the tubes really do self-seal then patches arent necessary... but....

--the sealant doesn't work on high pressure tires; the threshold seems to be around 70 psi. Again, some people claim otherwise, but my experience is what it is.

--the sealant doesn't dry in the tube, but it will eventually dry in the valve stem, making it impossible to inflate.

I think I have them in my wife's 3-speed, which is a good use for them since she is willing to inflate the tires herself but is not willing to do more elaborate repairs. Otherwise, I've given up on them.

kiwigem 04-26-12 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 14147271)
Yellow Jersey has them.

I have an extra...

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14147730)
I did that for a while, and thought it a great success, until the problems added up and I soured on the idea. The problems I found were:

--patches won't hold to those tubes. I know, some people say it is possible; and obviously if the tubes really do self-seal then patches arent necessary... but....

--the sealant doesn't work on high pressure tires; the threshold seems to be around 70 psi. Again, some people claim otherwise, but my experience is what it is.

--the sealant doesn't dry in the tube, but it will eventually dry in the valve stem, making it impossible to inflate.

I think I have them in my wife's 3-speed, which is a good use for them since she is willing to inflate the tires herself but is not willing to do more elaborate repairs. Otherwise, I've given up on them.

I use automotive sealant and have not had an issue with the valves getting fouled, key seems to be with following the directions and riding after application to distribute the sealant.

Good point that it does not work on high psi tyres or when you experience significant damage and I always carry a spare tube regardless.

gmt13 04-26-12 10:48 AM

Yellowbarber - Some folks mount a freewheel on the threaded driver and install a RD to end up with an expanded gear range.

-G

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 14147064)
I picked this AW hub out of a parts bin last week. It's a '49, and the driver is threaded where there's usually a lock-ring. Any ideas what that's for?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246773

I would love to find one of these and would look at building up and adding a 4-5 speed freewheel and a rear derailleur to give me the mother of all dual drives. Consideration has to be given to the reduction gearing in the AW to make sure the cog selection creates a minimum of gearing overlap and gives the optimal gearing.

One might also need the longer SA axle to provide adequate clearance for a multi speed conversion.

rhm 04-26-12 12:24 PM

I have one of those drivers (with a cog on it) if you want it. You will need a very long axle indeed.

photogravity 04-26-12 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by DaytonaMike (Post 14146142)
Trying a post with a picture for the first time. Here is my 73 Raleigh Sports. I love this bike.

DaytonaMike, she looks very nice! It looks like you have the Kenda tires on the bike which are a nice choice. They work really well on the Raleigh Sports, are durable and attractively priced. Did you need to do much cleanup or was that essentially the way the bike came to you?

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1335409857

photogravity 04-26-12 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart (Post 14146195)
I built a frame for this SA alloy hub I had on my shelf for 30+ years. Decided to be a bit creative in the frame style... Andy.


Andrew, I like that quite a bit, especially with the integrated rack. You should post that in the framebuilders forum for them to see, if you haven't already. What tubing did you use? Also, what is the geometry?

photogravity 04-26-12 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14147621)
Yeah! That's exactly it! I vote to ban. Humph.

+1 I wish I could figure out why I always agree with rmh and wahoonc. Is it that we're brothers from a different mother or did we have a Vulcan mind meld? :P

photogravity 04-26-12 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14148522)
I would love to find one of these and would look at building up and adding a 4-5 speed freewheel and a rear derailleur to give me the mother of all dual drives. Consideration has to be given to the reduction gearing in the AW to make sure the cog selection creates a minimum of gearing overlap and gives the optimal gearing.

One might also need the longer SA axle to provide adequate clearance for a multi speed conversion.

As with rhm, I have two that I'd be willing to trade for a 3-splined version if you'd like. :) A steel-body 40h dated 48 11 and an alloy body 36h dated 54 6. If you'd like to trade, I'd prefer steel for steel and alloy for alloy.

As an aside, I just discovered that I have 11 Sturmey AW hubs! :eek:

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14148617)
I have one of those drivers (with a cog on it) if you want it. You will need a very long axle indeed.

Would love that... considering you could squeeze a cyclo triple with 1/8 cogs on the splined driver with the longer SA axle, threading on a 5 speed might be doable and believe I have seen where this was done.

I have a Moulton F series in the works and a drive set up like this might just be the bomb for what will be a full on road bike that needs an internal hub to give you any kind of decent road gearing... was thinking a three speed with a dual drive would have been a good way to go with this instead of the stock 4 speed IGH as it would tighten up the gear steps.

Would of course have to swap the internals to a shell for 28 spokes as this is what the Moulton rims use.

Sixty Fiver 04-26-12 01:01 PM

I also have a good number of AW hubs but all are splined and date back to '54... the '54 is a keeper as it is original to my '54 Raleigh and plan to rebuild the wheel.


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