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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Lastillluce 05-11-15 08:05 AM

1960 Popular Special Sports Model
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi, I was wondering if anybody could help me find information on my bike. I've had no luck researching online and I'm just looking for information so I can have it restored. It rides well still, Dynamo light cable needs to be replaced, but I know next to nothing about it other than its a Popular Special sports model 1960. Any info would be appreciated. Will add more pictures soon.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450610http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450612http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450613

noglider 05-11-15 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by Lastillluce (Post 17794681)
Hi, I was wondering if anybody could help me find information on my bike. I've had no luck researching online and I'm just looking for information so I can have it restored. It rides well still, Dynamo light cable needs to be replaced, but I know next to nothing about it other than its a Popular Special sports model 1960. Any info would be appreciated. Will add more pictures soon.

It looks to be in excellent condition. Do you want help here overhauling it, or will you be bringing it into a local bike shop (LBS)? This one might be Raleigh-made, making it almost every bit as good as a Raleigh. There were only a few component changes, e.g. the chainring and rims.

BigChief 05-11-15 08:27 AM

It's a Raleigh made bike, but Popular? That's a new one to me. So is the upside down SA logo on the shift trigger.

Lastillluce 05-11-15 08:54 AM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450624Here are some other pictures. I'd like to overhaul the bike myself. I've had it tuned up at a local bike shop in KC. The gears have a tendency to slip and I want to restore the Dynamo light. I'm a novice if you haven't noticed but looking to learn as I go.

BigChief 05-11-15 11:57 AM

Gear slipping is most likely just a cable adjustment issue. Sometimes, people screw the indicator pin all the way in, or worse, torque it down, bending the little chain. If you disconnect the cable from the chain, you can unscrew the chain/ index pin from the hub. Examine the chain. Replace the chain/pin assembly if it's bent. If it's not bent, screw it back in until it stops then unscrew it one turn. That's the way it's supposed to be. Not tightened down.
From there you can adjust the cable until all 3 gears are stable. I mention this because I've seen tightened down index chain/pins and even bent chains that make gear adjustment tricky. Nice bike!

PalmettoUpstate 05-11-15 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by Lastillluce (Post 17794849)
I'm a novice if you haven't noticed but looking to learn as I go.

You're definitely at the right place; this thread has a huge amount of useful scoop - but I'm sure you noticed that.

Nice bike!

Velocivixen 05-11-15 08:50 PM

@Lastillluce - Welcome! You can definitely do it! These enablers...I mean forum members :p Encouraged me when I came upon a 1955 Phillips with Sturmey Archer dynohub. I knew nothing about 3 speed mechanics. Sturmey Archer has a Heritage site with all sorts of instruction for adjusting, disassembling, etc Fantastic site.


Heres a link to a 1951 Service Manual. It will help. Have fun and be sure to post what you've done.

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.co...-detail&id=322

gna 05-11-15 10:21 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Lastillluce (Post 17794681)
Hi, I was wondering if anybody could help me find information on my bike. I've had no luck researching online and I'm just looking for information so I can have it restored. It rides well still, Dynamo light cable needs to be replaced, but I know next to nothing about it other than its a Popular Special sports model 1960. Any info would be appreciated. Will add more pictures soon.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450610http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450612http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450613


I'm curious if you're somewhere in the Twin Cities. I have a Lady's Popular Special Sports Model that I have been fixing up for a friend's wife. I got the bike from MMRB, and Mike seemed to think it was a brand sold by Wheel Goods in Minneapolis many years ago. When I got the bike, this is what it looked like (just a frame):

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450784

I've overhauled the headset and bottom bracket, straightened the fenders, and I'm putting it together from parts I have laying around:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450785http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450786http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450788

It seems to have aluminum brake calipers (yours seems to as well), which I thought odd, but even though it seems to be a Raleigh, the front fork doesn't seem to use the spigotted cones to hold the wheel in place. A regular hub with locknuts should fit.

Edit: I see from your other post you're in the KC area. Oops.

jawajaws 05-12-15 01:05 AM

Servicing Sturmey-Archer 3-Speed Hubs

the best web


http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturm...her-parts.html

if you must buy something

desconhecido 05-12-15 04:28 AM

Is it certain that these Popular bikes are Raleigh products?They look a lot like the Raleighs, but those aluminum brakes -- Raleigh didn't start using those until the mid to late 70s, I don't think. And the front fender little chrome accent looks quite a bit different. White tail on the rear fenders is not typically Raleigh and I'm not sure of the fender shape. Raleigh Sports models from the 50s through the 70s also had pressed steel fender stays spot welded to the fenders. These look like drawn rod stays and I can't see the attachment. But, the rear dropouts look like Raleigh as far as I can tell.

I'm sure not saying that they are not Raleigh bikes, just that they are different from the other sub-brands that Raleigh cranked out on the Sports production line which seemed to be pretty much Sports without herons and without the thimble crown.

The stems look like Raleigh, too, but the one in Minnesota looks real, real high.

edit: I got the bikes confused. Looks like it's the one in KC that the stem height looks too high. Too high for all the old stems of that style that we've had, anyway.

slowtostart 05-12-15 04:59 AM

I think I've found another one and can't seem to talk myself out of its purchase. No good pictures yet, but it's a step through Rudge with Prestube rack, sprung leather saddle, and Dynohub. It looks like a Superbe, but I can't find any images like it in my Rudge searches. The body of the front light is the same color as the frame.

The pictures are fuzzy and the only damage I see is a slightly bent white tail on this black, I think, bicycle. It may have holes for a skirt guard. The seller describes it as more dirty than rusty. Pump pegs are there, but no pump. I don't know if the Dynohub is functioning, but I've already worked on one of those.

I already have an extra set of new tires so I think more time than money will be invested.

Would the slightly damaged tail be a deal breaker for you? Did these ever come drilled for skirt guards or would that more likely be a modification?

Thanks for any advice you may offer, including "Don't buy it!"

STS

markk900 05-12-15 05:09 AM

@slowtostart: what a silly question.....of course its not a deal breaker....sounds like a great find.

Lastillluce 05-12-15 06:14 AM

2 Attachment(s)
The bike was originally purchased at a yard sale in the Kansas City area in the late 70s early 80s by my father. It could certainly be rational to have gotten here via Minnesota. My father modified the pedals and handles at one point I believe, but the bike has been in a temperature controlled garage since the early 90s. He recently gave me the bike as he is now a full time race cyclist and hasn't used it since the early 90s.
@desconhecido I talked to a couple of bike repair guys in KC and both were stumped by the Raliegh question. They had the same concerns. Parts of it fit for raleigh and others don't. I will post a Better picture of the rod stays in a little while.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450870 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450871
@gna I'm curious if during your restoration you had any issues with the spokes being too long?

I've found a dynamo replacement. Curious to know if you all would replace the headlamp with something more modern and efficient like LED, or keep it original? I don't want to affect the value of the bike.

Track10 05-12-15 07:01 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Hi Guys

I was interested in the idea of getting an old Raleigh 3 Speed but this thread pushed me over the edge so I have just bought one from ebay. I have to say it isn't at all like the lovely examples you have all been showing off.

I would love it if someone out there knew a bit more about this model as I cannot seem to find much about it but I have seen a few ( just a few ) for sale here in the UK.

The model is called a "Riviera" according to the top tube sticker. The rear hub is stamped 67 as are the other two I had seen for sale over the last 6 months. I do not be able to seem to match the frame number to any lists though - unless I am looking in the wrong places ?

It looks like the number is 77241HB

Anyway here he is ( I am guessing it is a he ? )

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450862http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450863http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450864http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450865

Hopefully one of you will know more about it

... Rob

BigChief 05-12-15 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17797474)
Is it certain that these Popular bikes are Raleigh products?They look a lot like the Raleighs, but those aluminum brakes -- Raleigh didn't start using those until the mid to late 70s, I don't think. And the front fender little chrome accent looks quite a bit different. White tail on the rear fenders is not typically Raleigh and I'm not sure of the fender shape. Raleigh Sports models from the 50s through the 70s also had pressed steel fender stays spot welded to the fenders. These look like drawn rod stays and I can't see the attachment. But, the rear dropouts look like Raleigh as far as I can tell.

I'm sure not saying that they are not Raleigh bikes, just that they are different from the other sub-brands that Raleigh cranked out on the Sports production line which seemed to be pretty much Sports without herons and without the thimble crown.

The stems look like Raleigh, too, but the one in Minnesota looks real, real high.

edit: I got the bikes confused. Looks like it's the one in KC that the stem height looks too high. Too high for all the old stems of that style that we've had, anyway.

Yeah, The fenders and brakes are very different than other re-badged Raleighs I've seen. Still, I'm saying Raleigh because of the rear dropouts, the shape of the head tube lug, the chainguard and the fork. I have a Royal Scot badged Raleigh with that exact same fork and crown cover. I can't see from the photo, but if there's a Sir Walter stamp on the crank, that would seal the deal for me.

clubman 05-12-15 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17797801)
Yeah, The fenders and brakes are very different than other re-badged Raleighs I've seen. Still, I'm saying Raleigh because of the rear dropouts, the shape of the head tube lug, the chainguard and the fork. I have a Royal Scot badged Raleigh with that exact same fork and crown cover. I can't see from the photo, but if there's a Sir Walter stamp on the crank, that would seal the deal for me.

That looks like a typical Raleigh re-brand except someone swapped in the Weinman brakes, probably when they couldn't find the double ended ladies cable set. The cables don't match at the gear housing is more weathered.

edit. Of course the 26 tpi thread will be the final judge

desconhecido 05-12-15 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17797801)
Yeah, The fenders and brakes are very different than other re-badged Raleighs I've seen. Still, I'm saying Raleigh because of the rear dropouts, the shape of the head tube lug, the chainguard and the fork. I have a Royal Scot badged Raleigh with that exact same fork and crown cover. I can't see from the photo, but if there's a Sir Walter stamp on the crank, that would seal the deal for me.

The world is a funny place. The red British bike just above your post looks to have the same fenders as the MN and KC Populars. The brake levers on the KC bike look to be replacements -- perhaps the calipers are as well. It's odd that both the bikes would have replacement brakes, but it's not impossible.

You're right about the chain gaurd on the KC bike, looks exactly like a Raleigh.

Anyway, after seeing the Riviera, I'm more inclined to think the Populars are Raleighs.

desconhecido 05-12-15 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17797769)
Hi Guys

I was interested in the idea of getting an old Raleigh 3 Speed but this thread pushed me over the edge so I have just bought one from ebay. I have to say it isn't at all like the lovely examples you have all been showing off.

I would love it if someone out there knew a bit more about this model as I cannot seem to find much about it but I have seen a few ( just a few ) for sale here in the UK.

The model is called a "Riviera" according to the top tube sticker. The rear hub is stamped 67 as are the other two I had seen for sale over the last 6 months. I do not be able to seem to match the frame number to any lists though - unless I am looking in the wrong places ?

It looks like the number is 77241HB

Anyway here he is ( I am guessing it is a he ? )

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450862http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450863http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450864http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450865

Hopefully one of you will know more about it

... Rob

Every photo or reference to a Raleigh Riviera that I can find is from the UK or the Continent.Other than the chain guard and fenders it looks like a Raleigh Sports and my guess is that they are very similar bikes. Yours has neat details like the branded set stay caps.

I saw a photo of a Raleigh imported to America the other day with that same chain guard style -- Space Rider. I think the Space Rider might have been a smaller bike than the Sports (and similar bikes) with the 650A wheels. Some Space Riders had curved top tubes, but not all. I may have seen a photo of one of the Raleigh Sports imported to the US by AMF that also had that guard but can't recall. That may have been in this thread, but how can you tell? This thread is like the top of my desk (yes, I have a desk). There's a lot there and you can't find anything when you want it.

I think you will be amazed at how well the bike cleans up. From what I can tell, the paint and frame decals/paint lettering all look pretty good. The chrome will clean up really well, too, though some of it will probably always show some freckles where it looks like the chrome is gone and you can see down to the copper. The color looks like what Raleigh called Carmine Red. We have a Super Course MK II and a Sprite in that color and it's a very nice red when cleaned and polished. Hard to touch up, though. Some raspberry nail polishes are close. I think the color is actually a translucent red over a gold or bronze base layer.

gna 05-12-15 08:34 PM

5 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Lastillluce (Post 17797662)
The bike was originally purchased at a yard sale in the Kansas City area in the late 70s early 80s by my father. It could certainly be rational to have gotten here via Minnesota. .

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450870 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450871
@gna I'm curious if during your restoration you had any issues with the spokes being too long?

No, I got the frame for $5. No wheelset. I'm cobbling it together from parts I have laying around here.

I took a few more crappy cell pics.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451034http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451035http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451036http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451037http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451038

No "Nottingham England", no Sir Walter that I could see. Lastillluce's has a 60 date on the hub, and mine has a bottom bracket oiler, so 1960 seems about right. As a guess, and only that, wasn't 1960 when Raleigh finally consolidated most of the British cycle makes under their roof? I suppose they could have tossed these bikes together from fenders, brakes, and other parts from other makes that they were consolidating. Just a guess.

I suppose we could check the threading on the bottom bracket or the fork and see if standard Raleigh 26 tpi parts fit. That would settle the debate for me.

Narhay 05-12-15 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17797769)
Hi Guys

I was interested in the idea of getting an old Raleigh 3 Speed but this thread pushed me over the edge so I have just bought one from ebay. I have to say it isn't at all like the lovely examples you have all been showing off.

I would love it if someone out there knew a bit more about this model as I cannot seem to find much about it but I have seen a few ( just a few ) for sale here in the UK.

The model is called a "Riviera" according to the top tube sticker. The rear hub is stamped 67 as are the other two I had seen for sale over the last 6 months. I do not be able to seem to match the frame number to any lists though - unless I am looking in the wrong places ?

It looks like the number is 77241HB

Anyway here he is ( I am guessing it is a he ? )

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450862http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450863http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450864http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450865

Hopefully one of you will know more about it

... Rob

Pretty cool. I think if you take some time to disassemble, clean up and get to the bearings it will turn out quite nicely.

Fidbloke 05-13-15 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17786151)
Here is a link to tri sports website - home of supplies for the triathlete. 650c is more common than we think. I kept seeing this size crop up in various places relating to triathlons. Surprised me.

I believe it is for smaller sized bicycles. I don't know the history behind how the 650c is having a resurgence among the triathlete crowd, but I'm sore information could be sourced for the curious minded.


650c Racing Corner

Here is an article from cervelo.com answering the question regarding 650c tires.

What is your opinion on 650c vs 700c for smaller cyclists? - Cervélo

There's a company in the UK selling new bikes that are based on 650c wheels & tyres. I think the bikes are called 'Tokyobike' or something like that. They have normal sized frames, so the wheels tend to look a little bit 'dinky' as the frame size inreases.

desconhecido 05-14-15 12:10 AM


Originally Posted by Cascades T700 (Post 17794238)
I know I'm late to the thread, yet I've only joined the forum an hour ago. Back in 1959, as a six year old child, my parents got me a Raleigh 3 speed "English Racer". It had the SA internal gears with the "trigger"shifter and the seat stay mounted dynamo for the head and tail lights. It was a very nice bike that I rode until I out grew it. That bike gelled my aesthetics of what a bike should be. Hadn't thought of that bike in years and yet just last week, I bought a vintage T700 which is not exactly like, still the lines and vintage styling are what appeals to me.

When I was six I weighed about 45 pounds and was probably about three feet tall. I had a bicycle with 20" wheels till a neighbor ran it over in the driveway. I guess I was about 8 when I got what we called a 24" Schwinn. Of course, it was not a 24" bike, but about a 15" bike with 24" wheels, which, of course, didn't measure 24". It was way too big for me but the way I learned to ride on that bike, with the seat probably too high and my legs extended farther than proper at the bottom of the stroke is still the way I ride a bicycle. Nobody knew about standover height back then so it never bothered me that if one foot was on the ground the other was about six inches in the air. Never had a need to put two feet on the ground at once, one was always on a pedal or above a pedal with my leg resting on the top bar. They didn't size by fit back then, they sized by age.

Anyway, you must have been a big six-year-old if you were riding a Sports. Raleigh did make small bikes -- the Space Rider and the Colt, but I don't know if they were 3-speed bikes or not. The town I grew up in in central Wisconsin was pretty much a Schwinn town. Almost every kid had one and the ones who didn't had other American made bike that we would call cruisers today.

Cascades T700 05-14-15 01:09 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17803746)
When I was six I weighed about 45 pounds and was probably about three feet tall. I had a bicycle with 20" wheels till a neighbor ran it over in the driveway. I guess I was about 8 when I got what we called a 24" Schwinn. Of course, it was not a 24" bike, but about a 15" bike with 24" wheels, which, of course, didn't measure 24". It was way too big for me but the way I learned to ride on that bike, with the seat probably too high and my legs extended farther than proper at the bottom of the stroke is still the way I ride a bicycle. Nobody knew about standover height back then so it never bothered me that if one foot was on the ground the other was about six inches in the air. Never had a need to put two feet on the ground at once, one was always on a pedal or above a pedal with my leg resting on the top bar. They didn't size by fit back then, they sized by age.

Anyway, you must have been a big six-year-old if you were riding a Sports. Raleigh did make small bikes -- the Space Rider and the Colt, but I don't know if they were 3-speed bikes or not. The town I grew up in in central Wisconsin was pretty much a Schwinn town. Almost every kid had one and the ones who didn't had other American made bike that we would call cruisers today.

Well, I don't rightly remember to model name of the Raleigh bike I had as a child. That was over 50 years ago! We called it an "English Racer". I described it accurately as to being 3 speed internal hub gearing with a trigger shifter, red in color with white lettering outlined in gold, rear dynamo to run stock chrome silver bullet style head light and tail light with cone shaped red lens. I think it had 24" wheels but couldn't swear to it. I do not remember the frame size but yes I always was the biggest and tallest kid in my Dallas, Texas school class from first grade on. At nine years old I wore a men's size 9 shoe and was close to 100 lbs., At 16, I was six foot two inches tall with size 12 shoe and weighed 160 lbs and was skinny as a rail. I hit six five by age 18 with size 13 shoe and weighed 175 lbs. At age 62, I remain six foot five inches tall, wear a size 15 EE shoe and ride a 62 centimeter frame bike. So I guess I did qualify as a "big kid" and a big adult too. :-P

desconhecido 05-14-15 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by Cascades T700 (Post 17803802)
Well, I don't rightly remember to model name of the Raleigh bike I had as a child. That was over 50 years ago! We called it an "English Racer". I described it accurately as to being 3 speed internal hub gearing with a trigger shifter, red in color with white lettering outlined in gold, rear dynamo to run stock chrome silver bullet style head light and tail light with cone shaped red lens. I think it had 24" wheels but couldn't swear to it. I do not remember the frame size but yes I always was the biggest and tallest kid in my Dallas, Texas school class from first grade on. At nine years old I wore a men's size 9 shoe and was close to 100 lbs., At 16, I was six foot two inches tall with size 12 shoe and weighed 160 lbs and was skinny as a rail. I hit six five by age 18 with size 13 shoe and weighed 175 lbs. At age 62, I remain six foot five inches tall, wear a size 15 EE shoe and ride a 62 centimeter frame bike. So I guess I did qualify as a "big kid" and a big adult too. :-P

I'm 64 but sometimes lie and say I'm 63. I think there may have been a day or two back in the 70 s when i was 5'7", but most of the time I've been 5'6". I don't think I've shrunk much, but always look the other way when they weigh me at the doctor's. The 21"Sports are really a bit too big for me, but I'm used to it.

looks like Raleigh had at least three models in the American market designed for youngsters: Colt, Space rider, and Mountie. Colt (26") and Space Rider (24") could have gears (a lot of them with coaster brake). The Mountie was 20" wheels and probably ss only. Don't remember any of these from back then. Only images on the interwebs today.

We were a small town full of short people. Don't know why. There were only a couple kids in my high school taller than 6', and not by much. We had a bad basketball team. Our town was populated mostly by Polish and German immigrants. A neighboring town with a large population of Dutch immigrants, don't know why, had bigger kids and won all the basketball games.

thumpism 05-14-15 10:23 AM

This appeared on the local CL this morning. Seems to fit better in this thread than in the dedicated CL thread in C&V, more three-speed-specific interest here:

triumph classic bicycle

triumph classic bicycle - $120 (Richmond) < >
http://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_c...IC_600x450.jpg






http://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_c...hIC_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_g...tgN_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00d0d_b...Eff_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00I0I_8...7RK_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00H0H_x...vVw_50x50c.jpg


make / manufacturer: triumph
I have had this 3 speed triumph for about 5 years, it has brand-new tires and rides great. the fenders could use some adjusting for rattling but outgrew than that they are fine. It is a great shirt ride, around the neighborhood cruising bike.

I am moving and no longer have slave for allot of stuff. So, I have decided to sell it. Let me know what ya think!

thumpism 05-14-15 10:26 AM

I also know of a brand new Raleigh Space Rider (red with the curved top tube, 24x 1 3/8 wheel, CB) still at the dealer, if anyone is interested.

gster 05-15-15 11:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2015!
We have a date. The last Sunday in July.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451513

dweenk 05-17-15 01:11 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I don't need another Raleigh or another 3 speed, but they seem to follow me home. My wife and I were taking a drive past a couple of places where we used to live. As we were headed home, we passed a yard sale and my wife exclaimed "He's got two bikes for sale".

Well I went back and ended up with a ladies Raleigh Sports for $50. I started to negotiate, but he looked like he needed the $50. Anyway here it is. It has the 3 speed coaster brake hub that no one likes. Everything works, and it is in pretty decent shape. The only problem I notice is that the freewheel ticks while I am pedaling in 2nd and 3rd. After riding a bit more the freewheel ticks in 1st as well - maybe i didn't notice that earlier.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451987http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451988http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451989http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451990http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451991

The hub is dated March 1976 - I haven't found the serial number yet.

arex 05-17-15 04:27 PM

Nice bike for $50.

michaelz28 05-17-15 04:59 PM

by the top of the seat tube on my 74 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psq11fi8wu.jpg


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