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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Commando 10-27-19 03:17 PM

Perfect!


Originally Posted by al nz (Post 21181414)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7de42b173.jpeg
i couldn’t help myself...
Spring here, and i had to take this photo of the ol’bsa


Ged117 10-27-19 04:01 PM

Today I rebuilt my first Sturmey-Archer hub. In this case, an AW off of a donor '79 Sports I picked up last year as part of my rehabilitation of the 1950 Superbe (I serviced the AG on that bike, but did not take it entirely apart). The '79 hub was nasty. The insides were covered in a smearing, brownish orange residue. The bike had been left outside for years locked to a downtown bike loop (I freed it, grabbed the needed parts, and donated the frame, fenders and other pieces to a local co-op). It was a fun job for a rainy Sunday. I repacked the cleaned bearings with fresh marine grease. The bearing races were fine. In fact, the internals didn't have much wear showing. After finishing I put a teaspoon or two of synthetic 5W30 inside the oil cap and turned the gear by hand for a while, until it got nice and quiet and the oil spread around. It'll go in parts storage for future need.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G2...w1156-h1540-no

paulb_in_bkln 10-28-19 03:54 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21182578)
Today I rebuilt my first Sturmey-Archer hub. In this case, an AW off of a donor '79 Sports I picked up last year as part of my rehabilitation of the 1950 Superbe (I serviced the AG on that bike, but did not take it entirely apart). The '79 hub was nasty. The insides were covered in a smearing, brownish orange residue. The bike had been left outside for years locked to a downtown bike loop (I freed it, grabbed the needed parts, and donated the frame, fenders and other pieces to a local co-op). It was a fun job for a rainy Sunday. I repacked the cleaned bearings with fresh marine grease. The bearing races were fine. In fact, the internals didn't have much wear showing. After finishing I put a teaspoon or two of synthetic 5W30 inside the oil cap and turned the gear by hand for a while, until it got nice and quiet and the oil spread around. It'll go in parts storage for future need.

It takes some action with a brush and scraper to get rid of that gunk but it's satisfying to see the pieces all clean. Maybe you even have a 36 hole hub. Bigger choice of rims when you decide how you want to use it.

gster 10-28-19 06:26 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21182578)
Today I rebuilt my first Sturmey-Archer hub. In this case, an AW off of a donor '79 Sports I picked up last year as part of my rehabilitation of the 1950 Superbe (I serviced the AG on that bike, but did not take it entirely apart). The '79 hub was nasty. The insides were covered in a smearing, brownish orange residue. The bike had been left outside for years locked to a downtown bike loop (I freed it, grabbed the needed parts, and donated the frame, fenders and other pieces to a local co-op). It was a fun job for a rainy Sunday. I repacked the cleaned bearings with fresh marine grease. The bearing races were fine. In fact, the internals didn't have much wear showing. After finishing I put a teaspoon or two of synthetic 5W30 inside the oil cap and turned the gear by hand for a while, until it got nice and quiet and the oil spread around. It'll go in parts storage for future need.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G2...w1156-h1540-no

I too have "freed" parts from obviously abandoned bikes.....
A question for Clubman or anyone else.
Re; those 26" x 1 1/4" EA1 tires
Can I use a 26" x 1 3/8" tube or is there a better option?

gster 10-28-19 07:25 AM

I'm considering this vintage Windsor frame (cheap) for some
sort of Bitsa Scorcher 3 Speed build.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ef8459121.jpg
The lugs are quite nice and it's a large frame.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2aff3171ce.jpg
Looks as if the seat post may be seized...

clubman 10-28-19 07:35 AM

[QUOTE=gster;21183266
Re; those 26" x 1 1/4" EA1 tires
Can I use a 26" x 1 3/8" tube or is there a better option?[/QUOTE]
You can but they tend to run a little fat or wide, depending on your tires. Hard to get the tube in without folding or pinching. I found 650B's that were narrower but had to stretch further. Seems fine though.

nlerner 10-28-19 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21183266)
I too have "freed" parts from obviously abandoned bikes.....
A question for Clubman or anyone else.
Re; those 26" x 1 1/4" EA1 tires
Can I use a 26" x 1 3/8" tube or is there a better option?

EA1 = 26 x 1 1/4" = 597mm
EA3 = 26 x 1 3/8" = 590mm
650B = 584mm (and is hard to find in a Schrader valve these days)

Using EA3 tubes with EA1 tires shouldn't be a problem unless you have really skinny EA1 tires.

gster 10-28-19 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21183349)
You can but they tend to run a little fat or wide, depending on your tires. Hard to get the tube in without folding or pinching. I found 650B's that were narrower but had to stretch further. Seems fine though.

Ok,
Good info. Thanks
Some new EA1 tires arrived.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e5440924df.jpg
And fit very nicely on this rim that I've had in the shed for years (1965)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...588fce08fd.jpg
Interestingly, this Robin Hood Bitsa also has an EA1 rim on the front
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4fcec879b0.jpg
This wheel was "freed' from an abandoned bike (that's still there)
I may go back for the rear wheel as well.
It's a Raleigh Lenton 10 speed with a badly bent front end.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18709dea39.jpg
Stamped Sturmey Archer.

gster 10-28-19 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21183434)
EA1 = 26 x 1 1/4" = 597mm
EA3 = 26 x 1 3/8" = 590mm
650B = 584mm (and is hard to find in a Schrader valve these days)

Using EA3 tubes with EA1 tires shouldn't be a problem unless you have really skinny EA1 tires.

Thx!

Ged117 10-28-19 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21183172)
It takes some action with a brush and scraper to get rid of that gunk but it's satisfying to see the pieces all clean. Maybe you even have a 36 hole hub. Bigger choice of rims when you decide how you want to use it.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21183266)
I too have "freed" parts from obviously abandoned bikes.....
A question for Clubman or anyone else.
Re; those 26" x 1 1/4" EA1 tires
Can I use a 26" x 1 3/8" tube or is there a better option?

The '79 is indeed a 36 hole hub. It was really a proof of concept or test drive for taking apart and servicing these hubs. The left-hand ball cup was difficult to loosen without a punch (next tool to buy). I wanted to try with a jobless hub since this winter I will be rebuilding a '53 alloy FW / '62 GH6 for my Peugeot Clubman Commuter project, a '56 SW on my soon-to-arrive 1956 Sports step-through from WTB I'm going to restore for my girlfriend, a '72 AW 36 hole off of the parts bike I got for that project, and a '56 AW I have that I plan to rebuild in case the SW on the '56 Sports doesn't prove reliable for commuting and day rides. I thought such a nice '50s Raleigh should have a '50s hub. With a '79 AW and a '72 AW in the parts box, both 36 hole, I should be OK for any future IGH conversion as well as any need for parts for either my AG, FW, or AW hubs in service.

About a year and a half ago I didn't own or really think about old three-speeds. Look at what Sixty-Fiver, and the rest of you, have done...

:)

gster 10-28-19 02:21 PM

I found a EA1 front wheel in the shed....
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...09f1de1a1b.jpg
So I've got a set of wheels in need of a frame....hmmmmm....

gster 10-28-19 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21183834)
The '79 is indeed a 36 hole hub. It was really a proof of concept or test drive for taking apart and servicing these hubs. The left-hand ball cup was difficult to loosen without a punch (next tool to buy). I wanted to try with a jobless hub since this winter I will be rebuilding a '53 alloy FW / '62 GH6 for my Peugeot Clubman Commuter project, a '56 SW on my soon-to-arrive 1956 Sports step-through from WTB I'm going to restore for my girlfriend, a '72 AW 36 hole off of the parts bike I got for that project, and a '56 AW I have that I plan to rebuild in case the SW on the '56 Sports doesn't prove reliable for commuting and day rides. I thought such a nice '50s Raleigh should have a '50s hub. With a '79 AW and a '72 AW in the parts box, both 36 hole, I should be OK for any future IGH conversion as well as any need for parts for either my AG, FW, or AW hubs in service.

About a year and a half ago I didn't own or really think about old three-speeds. Look at what Sixty-Fiver, and the rest of you, have done...

:)

I look at it as a productive form of OCD.
You could wash your hands 50 times a day or
obsessively buy/build British 3 speeds.
At least, at the end of the day, you've
got something to show for your compulsion....

Commando 10-28-19 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21184044)
I look at it as a productive form of OCD.
You could wash your hands 50 times a day or
obsessively buy/build British 3 speeds.
At least, at the end of the day, you've
got something to show for your compulsion....

Ha ha! That's kinda what I'm like with them, I find it therapeutic rebuilding these old 3-Speeds, it's almost addictive.

paulb_in_bkln 10-28-19 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21183834)
The left-hand ball cup was difficult to loosen without a punch (next tool to buy).
:)

How did you manage without a punch? I've never done it any other way. And when the hub has been derelict, it takes some whacks.

paulb_in_bkln 10-28-19 05:49 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21184044)
You could wash your hands 50 times a day

That sounds just about right when I'm working on one of these things.

gster 10-28-19 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21184385)
That sounds just about right when I'm working on one of these things.

That's good.

jackbombay 10-28-19 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21184383)
How did you manage without a punch? I've never done it any other way. And when the hub has been derelict, it takes some whacks.

I used to spin them out by clamping it in my bench vice, I'd squeeze it just hard enough with the vice to get enough grip to loosen it, other times I have used an adjustable BB lock ring wrench that I have that was able to get them loose. Then I learned the punch trick here and use that technique now.

HPL 10-29-19 01:35 AM

English Headbadges
 
2 Attachment(s)
Just going through some stuff for an old headbadge and forgot I had a bunch of English marque examples, may have more stashed about the place. Should be a Dawes around somewhere.

Ged117 10-29-19 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21184383)
How did you manage without a punch? I've never done it any other way. And when the hub has been derelict, it takes some whacks.

A tough old Craftsman screwdriver and whacking it with a mallet. The hub was secure in the vise. I don't want to do it that way again, though. I'd forgotten the need for a punch when I started the job on the hub.

gster 10-29-19 07:37 AM

Still Out There
A respectable Raleigh 3 Speed (year unknown)
offered for $100.00 CDN
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7bb40be43f.jpg
I may get it for a friend who's looking for a bike.

adventurepdx 10-29-19 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21183434)
EA1 = 26 x 1 1/4" = 597mm
EA3 = 26 x 1 3/8" = 590mm
650B = 584mm (and is hard to find in a Schrader valve these days)

You can find 650B in Schrader. The Conti Tour 26 (650C) covers that size, plus will work with 26" x 1 3/8" and would probably work with the EA1 size, too. Plus, it has the threaded steel valve which I like.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1bd1b14f4c.jpg

Continental Tube

jackbombay 10-29-19 06:29 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21184849)
Just going through some stuff for an old headbadge and forgot I had a bunch of English marque examples, may have more stashed about the place. Should be a Dawes around somewhere.

The upper row in your first pic, the Hercules badge second from the left, do you know what years that badge was used?

HPL 10-30-19 03:17 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21186032)
The upper row in your first pic, the Hercules badge second from the left, do you know what years that badge was used?

Hi Jack,

No I do not know the years for when that badge was used (I've not seen it on a bike). The other Hercules badge was used approximately 1948 - '70s, so it's hard to say. I believe it is earlier than the the other one. My bike's badge was used in the '20s as a decal, and then a badge in the '30s-'60s (?or later)(at least 3 versions of this round badge design). This is based on what others have determined their bikes age is, but I don't know how they determined that year of manufacture. Often times I see a dated frame, but no image of, and/or headbadge is missing altogether. Seems Hercules had about 6 or 7 different "early" badges that overlapped in usage. Also, there are the Hercules "Royal Prince" and "Tourist" badges which are different. I'm fairly new concerning my experience with this marque and early English 3 speeds; most experience is with '70s Raleighs which are considerably easier to date if bike is intact/original. I saw an early ad (year unknown) where the bike pictured (drawing not photo) has the round badge with the "bronze" border and red "H/C" center medallion, but in the corner of the ad it has a drawing of the green "shield" badge. Catalog drawing of '53 Kestrel Super has a "coat of arms" style with a small green "shield" logo incorporated into it.

gster 10-30-19 06:02 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21185551)
You can find 650B in Schrader. The Conti Tour 26 (650C) covers that size, plus will work with 26" x 1 3/8" and would probably work with the EA1 size, too. Plus, it has the threaded steel valve which I like.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1bd1b14f4c.jpg

Continental Tube

Thx. I like a threaded valve as well.

gster 10-30-19 11:22 AM

I'm thinking of a hybrid build.
A mid 70's Windsor frame with a EA1 3 speed
wheel set...
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c478381fd6.jpg

Ged117 10-31-19 11:35 AM

For my Peugeot Clubman commuter project, I'm building my FW into a 700c velocity dyad and a dynohub into the front wheel. The FW has an 18t cog. My Peugeot's small chain ring is 40t (the big one is 52...I don't have the legs for that combo). I have a cotter press so servicing the French bottom bracket and cranks is not a big deal, and I would like to retain them. My question is: will the 40t be too small in combination with the four-speed and 18t cog? Or would that be an ideal setup? I'm new to gearing discussions, so just curious. Any suggestions? Thanks. The bike will be used for commutes in all weather conditions and day rides. The Ottawa valley isn't very hilly, and my various route options are relatively flat.

Ged

Salubrious 10-31-19 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21188643)
For my Peugeot Clubman commuter project, I'm building my FW into a 700c velocity dyad and a dynohub into the front wheel. The FW has an 18t cog. My Peugeot's small chain ring is 40t (the big one is 52...I don't have the legs for that combo). I have a cotter press so servicing the French bottom bracket and cranks is not a big deal, and I would like to retain them. My question is: will the 40t be too small in combination with the four-speed and 18t cog? Or would that be an ideal setup? I'm new to gearing discussions, so just curious. Any suggestions? Thanks. The bike will be used for commutes in all weather conditions and day rides. The Ottawa valley isn't very hilly, and my various route options are relatively flat.

Ged

I think you might want a larger front sprocket unless you also plan to use a second in the front, in which case I'd make the latter a 48. My Lenton Marque III has an FW and 27" wheels; I run an 18 in the rear and a 46 in front and as long as the hub doesn't pop out of gear I'm good on some pretty serious climbs in low, and high is pretty decent. I have to do some work on my hub though- if I stand on the pedals in low (while holding the shift in low at the same time) it will still slip a tooth a bit which is disheartening- both because I have to stop and because of the damage I'm probably doing. The FW on my Humber Sports doesn't behave that way at all.

Ged117 10-31-19 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21188782)
I think you might want a larger front sprocket unless you also plan to use a second in the front, in which case I'd make the latter a 48. My Lenton Marque III has an FW and 27" wheels; I run an 18 in the rear and a 46 in front and as long as the hub doesn't pop out of gear I'm good on some pretty serious climbs in low, and high is pretty decent. I have to do some work on my hub though- if I stand on the pedals in low (while holding the shift in low at the same time) it will still slip a tooth a bit which is disheartening- both because I have to stop and because of the damage I'm probably doing. The FW on my Humber Sports doesn't behave that way at all.


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 21188815)
Ged, the FW hub has a lowest gear ratio of ⅔, where the more common AW has ¾. In percentage the difference is 12.5%. For the FW with 40/18 sprocket ratio the overall ratio is 40/18/1.125 = 1.975. With a 27x1 ¼ tire the circumference is

Thanks guys. I was thinking 46t based on my other reading so that is good to confirm that it works for others. My FW is an alloy '53, and I am going to recondition it. It has never been opened and I am not sure of the wear on internal parts. We'll see. I want it ready for year round operation (I'm going to use synthetic 5W30 for winter riding after I pack new bearings in marine grease) so I imagine I'll be replacing pawl springs and perhaps other parts depending on wear. Have you had to do that?

For the chain wheel, I figured that I match the bolt count and a new one should work, right? I might replace the bottom bracket with the velo orange unit since it is 40 years old. I imagine I must then determine the spindle length.

This should be fun. I'm excited to ride the bike when completed. Lighter wheels, FW hub, and B&M light set powered by the dynohub.

HPL 11-01-19 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 21181330)
I picked up a Columbia 3 speed this morning for cheap. The Columbia headbadge is nice - Westfield, Mass. I think they made better headbadges than bikes.

I stopped in Westfield, MA a couple weeks ago. Now they make great beer, Westfield River Brewery. The "Dude", a coffee porter is very good. I never looked, but I'm sure the yard sales, flea markets, other small shops, and of course garages/basements have a plethora of Columbia bikes in various states if functionality. I should do a little hunting next time since it's become my last stop before getting home on my northern trips.

paulb_in_bkln 11-01-19 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21188863)
I might replace the bottom bracket with the velo orange unit since it is 40 years old. I imagine I must then determine the spindle length.

As you know on my Peugeot mixte conversion I wanted a cotterless alloy crankset so I used the Velo Orange BB. It went in in a jiff and with about a thousand miles on it, no problems. But you realize the old steel cottered crankset is out, in that case? I bought a new but vintage look single-ring drilled out crankset off eBay. It cost about fifty bucks. I was really nervous it might be a hunk of junk but although the finish is not absolutely perfect it works just fine and it gives the 60s/70s look I wanted.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f890006182.jpg


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