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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gna 01-24-16 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18480703)
Don't know how many of you look at the Touring forum, but there's an interesting discussion going on now:
http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/10...g-3-gears.html

I lurk over there on occasion. I must say I'm surprised that most people seem to support the notion. Though Squeezebox finds it silly.

Squeezebox has been trolling the Touring forum for the last few months. He seems to have a special hatred for the Surly Long Haul Trucker, for some reason. I suppose I could make a few unkind comments about Surly, but I have no doubt an armed employee of QBP would knock on my door and force me to retract my comments.

adventurepdx 01-24-16 10:26 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18483900)
I lurk over there on occasion. I must say I'm surprised that most people seem to support the notion. Though Squeezebox finds it silly.

Or, to quote Squeezebox, "silly, silly, silly!"


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18483900)
Squeezebox has been trolling the Touring forum for the last few months.

It's pretty interesting how...strong Squeezebox's opinions on bikes and bike touring are. Interesting since Squeezebox, as far as I know, hasn't toured, or even own a "touring" bike. :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18483900)
I suppose I could make a few unkind comments about Surly, but I have no doubt an armed employee of QBP would knock on my door and force me retract me comments.

That's what happens when you live in the same town as QBP! Me, I'm afraid that Sacha White will somehow find out that I think that Vanilla bikes aren't "all that."

Oh wait, I hear a knock at the door...

BigChief 01-25-16 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18483644)
I read that article....
That's some serious damage.

Only a guess, but I would think hitting bumps in the road would stress the head tube lug to down tube joint more than breaking. I'm thinking that the joint was faulty all along and would have happened at some point even without the drum brake mod.

gster 01-25-16 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18484570)
Only a guess, but I would think hitting bumps in the road would stress the head tube lug to down tube joint more than breaking. I'm thinking that the joint was faulty all along and would have happened at some point even without the drum brake mod.

My thoughts as well.

adventurepdx 01-25-16 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18484570)
Only a guess, but I would think hitting bumps in the road would stress the head tube lug to down tube joint more than breaking. I'm thinking that the joint was faulty all along and would have happened at some point even without the drum brake mod.

Probably true, but the whole drum brake fiasco probably hastened the situation.

Velocivixen 01-25-16 11:10 AM

@adventurepex - don't you have a drum brake on your bike? Or was that someone else from the club?

Salubrious 01-25-16 11:17 AM

If you can find an example of where a drum brake was used on a three-speed then you might be alright. But I do recommend being careful, as when drum or disk brakes are used the stress on the fork is great, while when regular brakes are used the stress on the fork is nearly the same as normal riding.

I have a Surly Pugsley; early versions of the Pugsley forks were failing on just this account (as I recall, they also had brazed on water bottle fittings, which contributed to the problem).

So if you are planning drum brakes for your vintage ride, I recommend vintage drum brakes as they are less likely to cause a problem.

adventurepdx 01-25-16 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18485209)
@adventurepex - don't you have a drum brake on your bike? Or was that someone else from the club?

I think in order to page me, you have to spell it @adventurepdx ;)

To answer the question, no, I don't have a drum brake. But Steve does, and that's the pic I posted in post 9324 (!) which is copied below.


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18482956)
My friend Steve built a 70's Sports with modern S-A drum brakes. Seems to work well.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8721/1...ef7730b9_z.jpg


clasher 01-25-16 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18485226)
If you can find an example of where a drum brake was used on a three-speed then you might be alright. But I do recommend being careful, as when drum or disk brakes are used the stress on the fork is great, while when regular brakes are used the stress on the fork is nearly the same as normal riding.

I have a Surly Pugsley; early versions of the Pugsley forks were failing on just this account (as I recall, they also had brazed on water bottle fittings, which contributed to the problem).

So if you are planning drum brakes for your vintage ride, I recommend vintage drum brakes as they are less likely to cause a problem.

Well the guy with the bent fork put modern compressionless housing on his brakes and is running the 90mm brakes. I run 70mm drums with standard spiral housing and I've never needed more braking power. All the vintage drum brakes I've seen have drums that look about the same size as the modern 70mm ones.

Slash5 01-25-16 02:16 PM

I've got a couple of 3 speed drum brake installations but haven't ridden them much. I never thought about that, you are stressing the end of the forks on a fork that wasn't designed for it. Same problem as disk brakes. I've seen a thread or 2 where people have folded rigid front forks doing "stoppies" with disk brakes. The front fork on my Surly Pugsley was recalled for that issue.
I would assume as long as you show restraint it won't be a problem.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500507

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500506

nlerner 01-25-16 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18485823)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!

That's beyond hope, imo. You'll have a hard time getting the two arms to align, much less getting a cotter to make a snug fit. I've never seen that kind of wear on a hardened-steel spindle.

noglider 01-25-16 02:34 PM

Borked. I mean, I don't really know, but it seems likely that the crank will slip forward and backward on the spindle. Unless you put it in your wife's bike. ;)

Jakenks 01-25-16 02:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
My recently acquired 1970 Raleigh Superbe.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18485846)
That's beyond hope, imo. You'll have a hard time getting the two arms to align, much less getting a cotter to make a snug fit. I've never seen that kind of wear on a hardened-steel spindle.

It's not worn, that's collateral damage from a cotter drill-out.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18485848)
Unless you put it in your wife's bike. ;)

Hey! I'm telling!

Actually, it *is* from her bike. It was unbelievably stuck. Once I got it open, the grease on the non-drive side had hardened to the consistency of dried wax, while the drive side was as nice as the day it was installed. Go figure.

adventurepdx 01-25-16 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by clasher (Post 18485744)
I run 70mm drums with standard spiral housing and I've never needed more braking power. All the vintage drum brakes I've seen have drums that look about the same size as the modern 70mm ones.

That would make sense, since there were drum brakes available in the era of the vintage British three speed. I don't think Sturmey Archer wouldn't make drum brakes that couldn't be used on Raleighs of the era!

browngw 01-25-16 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18485823)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500507

A spot of weld and some filing might save it.

markk900 01-25-16 06:45 PM

+1 - though it depends if there is anything super special about that particular spindle. A replacement might be had at the LBS or coop that would cost less than even a quick welding job....

gster 01-25-16 06:49 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500591http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500592I've come to the conclusion that these old 3 speed bikes are pretty much a waste of time and decided to get something modern and practical for the city.
I'm just not sure where to attach the kick stand.

PalmettoUpstate 01-25-16 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18486521)
I've come to the conclusion that these old 3 speed bikes are pretty much a waste of time and decided to get something modern and practical for the city.

Ha-Ha! Very good. Lemme guess...

Top one is called a "Dorfmann" and bottom one a "Dufous?"

BigChief 01-25-16 09:59 PM

Along with old style cable casings and smaller diameter drums, I think making a longer anchor bar would be helpful. The fork legs have a lot more beef near the top.

ascherer 01-26-16 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18486511)
+1 - though it depends if there is anything super special about that particular spindle. A replacement might be had at the LBS or coop that would cost less than even a quick welding job....

It's a standard Raleigh 16GC from a late 70's DL22L. Will check the local sources. Thanks, @markk900, @browngw, @noglider and @nierner.

noglider 01-26-16 09:00 AM

@ascherer, Larry might have some. Also, since Hal at Bicycle Habitat will know what it is, perhaps he stocks old parts, too. I don't know, but it's worth asking.

I have an entire cottered two-chainring crankset from a Falcon 10-speed bike. I don't know if the spindle has the same dimensions. Perhaps not, but maybe it would work anyway.

arex 01-26-16 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 18486458)
A spot of weld and some filing might save it.

Agreed. It'd be a trivial job for a machine shop.


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