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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Gravel Rider 10-30-21 06:21 PM

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/b...395467823.html

jkrug 10-31-21 01:23 PM

Just picked up a pair of Raleigh Sports in rough shape but all original. The hubs are '72 on the men's and '73 on the women's. Almost done with the women's bike, but the cotters on the crank are frozen solid. Tried penetrating oil for a week, but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?

ThermionicScott 10-31-21 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 22267738)
I'm thinking about getting some of these Kool-Stop "John Bull"-style brake pads so that I can re-use the original holders on my Armstrong. Anybody have experience with the fit? https://www.ebay.com/itm/324430427215

I went ahead and bought a set. Only took minimal crimping for the holders to get a good hold on the pads:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89d464055d.jpg

Turns out that I'll need to file the rears down a little bit for clearance to the rims, but that's fine!

bluesteak 10-31-21 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by jkrug (Post 22290475)
Just picked up a pair of Raleigh Sports in rough shape but all original. The hubs are '72 on the men's and '73 on the women's. Almost done with the women's bike, but the cotters on the crank are frozen solid. Tried penetrating oil for a week, but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?

I have a park tool cotter press. I donít think they make them anymore. Before that I made a press out a hanger clamp for steel roof trusses. There are instructions somewhere in this thread on how to make one

nlerner 10-31-21 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 22290479)
I went ahead and bought a set. Only took minimal crimping for the holders to get a good hold on the pads:
Turns out that I'll need to file the rears down a little bit for clearance to the rims, but that's fine!

Oh, those look very promising! I rode my '37 Sports today, and the John Bull pads are only suggestive of stopping, and that's even with aluminum rims. Might have to go for the Kool Stops.

jkrug 10-31-21 10:07 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 22290834)
I have a park tool cotter press. I donít think they make them anymore. Before that I made a press out a hanger clamp for steel roof trusses. There are instructions somewhere in this thread on how to make one

Thank you. I haven't made it all the way through this thread but will look for it. I've also found one made from a ball joint splitter that I will probably try.

FBOATSB 11-01-21 01:56 AM


Originally Posted by jkrug (Post 22291041)
Thank you. I haven't made it all the way through this thread but will look for it. I've also found one made from a ball joint splitter that I will probably try.

New Crank Cotter Press
Top notch tools and cotters.

gster 11-01-21 04:57 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22286752)

I like the His and Hers situation.
Often purchased with good intentions to "get in shape" and then
quickly relegated to the basement or back of the garage.

3speedslow 11-01-21 08:41 AM


Originally Posted by FBOATSB (Post 22291105)
New Crank Cotter Press
Top notch tools and cotters.

OHH! Gotíta get one! Thanks for bulletin.

Greg R 11-01-21 10:14 AM


but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?
Here's what I've done: Support the crank with a block of wood that goes to the floor and has a hole drilled in the top for the cotter to pass into as it exits. Use a BRASS punch, or hardwood, to strike with the hammer. Don't hammer directly on the pin for that will surely mushroom the end and possibly deflect and hit the bike.. With the force going to the pin and floor, you won't ruin the crank bearing or bend the spindle. I've seen both on the bikes I've recently gone through.

Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes a little heat aids the penetrating oil and expands the crank arm just enough to start movement. Be careful around paint and cableling..

Usually the tough ones get ruined, they're consumables. Don't waste time saving a buggered one, find quality new ones.

Look for RJ the Bike Guy videos and BikeSmith's articles on cotter pins. They helped me and I have a cotter press from BikeSmith coming so I'll see how that turns out.

Edit:
The tool came today, so I tried it out on an old Churchill. It's made extremely well and worked great. Instructions came in an email which also included procedure to use the tool to INSTALL the pins. Money well invested.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06a8214ab3.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff2f126423.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7d50585170.jpg

jkrug 11-01-21 09:54 PM

Thanks! I just sold a Schwinn three-speed so am going to invest in the Bikesmith press rather than going out and buying a brass punch. I'm willing to pay the bit extra for a quality tool I'm hoping to get good use from.

Salubrious 11-02-21 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by jkrug (Post 22290475)
the cotters on the crank are frozen solid. Tried penetrating oil for a week, but short of bashing them with a hammer and/or drilling them out (which I don't want to do) what is the best method for getting them out?


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 22291352)
OHH! Gotíta get one! Thanks for bulletin.

The cotter press is an essential tool! You'll find that once you have the hang of it, its actually easier to work with cottered cranks than JIS style alloy cranks. The cotters can be re-used easily, and once pressed into place won't need tightening down the road. The nut is only used to secure the cotter pin in place and is not used to pull it into position. If you spend time working on older bikes sooner or later you'll run into cotter pins that were placed without a press and so have loosened up.

Nice tool to have on hand!!

jkrug 11-02-21 04:23 PM

Thanks all for the info. Ordered one from Bike Smith. Don't have the equipment to fabricate my own and love the work Mark is doing. Can't wait to use it (and the fixed cup tool) on my 72 Raleigh Sports.

3speedslow 11-02-21 05:10 PM

My order for a CPT is in the works.

New tyre day for my 3 speed fleet. Only one not getting a new set is the scorcher, itís the mudguard free one. The white Sears TW is 27Ē.

I got a mix of white, tan and black wall from my LBS which is vintage heaven. Also found a few more SA bits to play with for projects.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1744f30c.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d6ca689b6.jpeg

arty dave 11-03-21 01:12 AM

Man I really wish I'd bought a bikesmith cotter press the last time I was in the US. I didn't know then how many cottered cranks I'd be dealing with. I was on the fence with 3 cottered crank bikes, now I have 6 keepers and 2 that will make good beaters. I've got a really stuck cotter pin right now that I keep basting with oil, hoping that one day it will succumb to my drill press vice. Actually typing this out and seeing the word vice, I should just stick it in my bench vice... awkward but that should pop it.

When I fully dismantle a bike I use my bench vice to remove stuck drive side BB's. It is awkward but then you've got the whole bike to use as leverage. It takes a little more brain power to work out which way to turn the frame so that the left hand thread is being turned the right way lol!

Salubrious 11-03-21 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 22293844)
Man I really wish I'd bought a bikesmith cotter press the last time I was in the US. I didn't know then how many cottered cranks I'd be dealing with. I was on the fence with 3 cottered crank bikes, now I have 6 keepers and 2 that will make good beaters. I've got a really stuck cotter pin right now

You could buy one and have it shipped... its a terrible thing to damage a part because you didn't have the right tool. Finding good cotter pins is a lot harder nowadays. Best if you can reuse them as intended.

3speedslow 11-03-21 09:21 AM

Mine will be here Sat. or Monday. Just makes sense to get one and stop borrowing the LBS cotter press. With the number of 3 speed bikes growing in my stable I don’t have to rush on maintenance jobs.

Plus side as mentioned there is a better chance of being able to reuse the old cotters because of the tool’s effective design.

Salubrious 11-03-21 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 22294151)
Mine will be here Sat. or Monday. Just makes sense to get one and stop borrowing the LBS cotter press. With the number of 3 speed bikes growing in my stable I donít have to rush on maintenance jobs.

Plus side as mentioned there is a better chance of being able to reuse the old cotters because of the toolís effective design.

Ya never know- a friend brought a 3 speed to me that she bought for $15.00. The press proved handy. If you ever are smitten by some older machine that isn't a 3 speed, it can be handy for that too. I have one bike with Chater Lea cranks on it. When you have a high end crankset like that its nice to be able to treat it properly.

Unca_Sam 11-03-21 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22294165)
Ya never know- a friend brought a 3 speed to me that she bought for $15.00. The press proved handy. If you ever are smitten by some older machine that isn't a 3 speed, it can be handy for that too. I have one bike with Chater Lea cranks on it. When you have a high end crankset like that its nice to be able to treat it properly.

Yes, there are cottered cranks on more than 3 speeds! My 1973 Supercourse used a cottered Stronglight crank before I pulled the parts to use a Sugino SuperMaxy square taper crank for fixed/single speed duty. There was once a time when today's humble square taper crankset and BB was high-end! Schwinn's commitment to the one-piece ashtabula crank is something I've learned to appreciate for their simplicity of servicing because the alternative was cottered cranks and fine tuning new cotter pins with a flat mill file!

ThermionicScott 11-03-21 03:49 PM

I recently ordered one of the BikeSmith cotter presses as well. At the time I first contacted Mark, he wasn't sure when they would arrive, so it was a pleasant surprise that they just came in a few days ago!

Looking forward to being able to actually clean and repack the bottom bracket on my Armstrong -- concern over riding with a dirty bottom bracket has kept me from riding it much.

3speedslow 11-03-21 05:08 PM

Through the post I now have an aluminium North Road handle bar for my 79 Raleigh. Almost the same shape as the bars original to the machine.

I guess that means I will be keeping this bike! Trying to decide between Schwalbe delta cruiser or tan walled tires.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2225fba13.jpeg

52telecaster 11-03-21 05:17 PM

Just want to chime in on the bike smith press. It's terrific.

oldspokes 11-03-21 10:04 PM

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...396265285.html

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79d9de9684.jpg
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https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...396552006.html


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e801f55c0f.jpg

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https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...393152659.html


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7bcabbc075.jpg
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https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...381474827.html


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6d80330a11.jpg

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https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...401271678.html


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...297953a5c0.jpg
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vintagebicycle 11-04-21 12:44 AM

Many of those have been listed for quite some time, better bikes like those don't sell very well here. I watched a ladies Raleigh in black sit on CL for over a year for $30, and it was in riding shape. I finally offered the guy $10 and he took it. I only wanted it for parts, it gave me two perfect rims, a complete set of chrome bits in near perfect shape, and two newer tires. The frame got put out in the shed. I think I sold or traded the fork to someone but the frame just sits.

I answered an ad with no pics last month, the ad said 'Vintage English Racing bikes" - $40. I ignored the ad for a month or more, then finally realized it was near another bike I was going to look at.
I came home with 17 bikes that day. Only 8 were English, but there were two Austrian Sears bikes, both complete, two German Hercules, one Ross, one Schwinn Speedster, one Schwinn Racer, a Peugeot 5 speed, and one Peugeot UO-18 mixte. The English bike list were one small frame Robin Hood sports, A 1970 Raleigh sports his/hers' pair, one Sprite 27, and four ladies Sprites missing their rear wheels.
All the ladies models were missing their rear hubs, but came with the spokes and rims.
All four of the Sprite 5's were missing their S5 hubs.
I ended up getting them for $25.
I think the guy trash picked them from a picker who gleaned over them for the best parts to list online and let the rest go. I figured it was worth it just for the rims, since all but one bike was really clean.
The big question is what to do with some of the older ladies frames, they don't sell, and putting them back together with all original parts would no doubt cost far more than they would ever sell for.
Unfortunately the headbadges on them are likely worth more than the bike assembled these days judging by recent ebay prices. I tried to by an S5 a few months ago and bailed out long before it hit $100, it sold for well over $300.
The good part is most ladies bikes haven't been abused and the parts I took from them saved or made an equal men's model that much better, but lately, I'm finding far more deals than I could ever flip and expect to even come close to breaking even.
I picked up a bike nearly identical to the brown late model Sports posted above but with a rear rack and front basket on it this time last year for $15, and its just as clean as the one above. It sat listed on CL for three years as part of a huge lot of bikes for sale the guy wanted $75 for all. I ended up buying 7 off him from that lot, leaving basically all the department store junk behind and still didn't break another $20.
From what I've seen, most buyers shopping on CL or FB for a bike don't know a Raleigh from a Kent or Huffy. They're more likely to pay good money for a junk department store bike than they ever will for anything vintage. On road bikes, in general, if it don't have index shifting, they're afraid of it and stay away. Most have never ridden a bike that didn't click in each gear with a big plastic indicator to show what gear they're in.
Most look at three speeds as a funny looking mountain bike or some odd antique. There was a guy selling 590 size Michelin tires in white, gum, and black wall for $40 a set, he was getting them from overseas in bulk. (along with other sizes as well. He brought in a case or two of each. After a year, I emailed and made an offer on a half dozen in black, and got them for $10 each. He said in three years he only had two calls for that size tire. He had 590, 622, 630, and Kenda 597 Schwinn tires in black and he said out of 400 tires only 4 pair sold total. I bought the rest of the 590's, 597's and 27" blackwall tires, plus a few 700c tires. I think he sold the rest at some show over the summer.
Bike shops here don't stock tires, at least nothing to fit any bikes I own or mess with. If its not on a new Schwinn bike at Walmart its not available
My thinking was that for very little cash I just bought all the tires I'll likely ever need for a long time to come. I mounted up a few, and took the rest over to a buddies shop and vacuum sealed them in plastic for storage. I did that with some tires 40 years ago and when I opened them up a few years ago they were good as new.

Greg R 11-05-21 08:54 AM

Yeah, "Ladies" bikes. I think that's a marketing glitch. I have to admit for chores as a small grocery getter, mail pick up, or commuting the "step through" is the most practical. If there's a rear rack on one, there's no need to swinging a high leg over it. A friend of mine spent some time in the Netherlands and he said almost all the bikes there are step through and are well integrated in the workaday world.

Greg R 11-05-21 08:58 AM


Only 8 were English, but there were two Austrian Sears bikes, both complete, two German Hercules, one Ross, one S
Are there tips or clues to country of build?

3speedslow 11-05-21 10:20 AM

A day early! I applaud Markís use of second hand
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed56f0728.jpeg
material to pack it! This press is heavy!

thumpism 11-05-21 04:48 PM

$150 for a 23" Rudge 3-speed with an extra derailleur in NY. Benelux conversion?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...68295607603295

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...d8&oe=618B221A

gster 11-06-21 04:45 AM

Here in Toronto, reasonably priced at $70.00
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...be5e791a1c.jpg

gster 11-06-21 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22297479)
$150 for a 23" Rudge 3-speed with an extra derailleur in NY. Benelux conversion?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...68295607603295

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...d8&oe=618B221A

That's a bike I'd like to have.


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