fisher hoo koo e koo, bb questions
 

just picked this up...
couple questions:
-year?
-working on the BB - an evolution - its press fit with a circlip - basically - the BB has a little play otherwise i might not even overhaul at this time - rest of bike is tip top - even w some BB play - it rides real nice and everything is dialed in - very excited about this one

so to overhaul / replace my bb componentry - what tools will i need and what steps will i need to take

as much as i like my LBS - i am a DIY'r when it comes to my bikes - but this is new territory for me

thanks in avdance


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8471.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8472.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8475.jpg

Go to a shop that used to sell Klein bikes or a good Trek dealer as they should have the press to do the job. You need the correct tools for this job or you will screw it up.

exactly - i may end up at the LBS but i dont mind tooling up (tool hoarder too:o) and doing it myself - thats why i'm posting to see if i can get tool up / procedure guidance

Snap ring retained, so snap ring pliers needed.

you then need to fabricate an Arbor press..
to push the bearing cartridges and axle from the frame.

and then separate the bearings from the axle..

Bearing supply house can use the standard bearing number to supply a replacement
if the seal does not read the number, ID/ OD & thickness measurements will.

Bike shop may find Enduro brand/type bearings .. 90% fill, all balls no spacers,
QBP distributes those. Phil Wood may have some that meet their specs..
submersible pump type seals one of their specs.

Oh, and the screw that holds the cable guide under the BB has to come out,
or it will be in the way , when the press is in action

something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARK-BICYCLE...9#ht_625wt_952

so there are no tools (used / nos / replicated) that are currently circulating the marketplace?

1) No... those are needle nose piers, you need snapring pliers.

2) No... No current tools are available, so you need to fabricate them.

Use of Snap Rings are a common machine practice, so Auto parts and tool sellers
like SnapOn will have them.
an inside snap ring needs the squeeze, outside snap rings get spread to be removed.
so come in 2 general types.
the ends of the pins have a reverse taper to help them stay in the ring's holes.
and on some tools are replaceable.

went to LBS - guy was talking about removing snapring and then banging out the bb w hammer

i'm inclined to let it be but if it gets worse i'm feeling like there isnt enough out there to help me DIY

i mean - fabricate a press? cmon - i really thought it woulda been an easier way
i am soon to regret this pick up?

anyway - leaving it the LBS for some guy to hammer on when he said he never worked on one before leaves me less than optomistic - let alone how much he might charge me

i appreciate the replies so far guys - but i'm still feeling lost here

banging out with a hammer and tossing the old bearings may be OK
banging on the new ones maybe Not.

In this case, a press will be basically an edge and a hole
that supports the edge of the BB shell ,
but leaves a hole big enough for the bearing itself to pass into.
you might be able to find a big socket to make the hole, or a piece of pipe.

then a really big C clamp, , with the screw threads well greased
and maybe a cheater on the end of the handle to give it enough force..

DIY shop tool : an arch , of heavy, hot rolled steel channel iron, bolted together,
and a hydraulic car jack -- work very well .
the jack pushed down so the whole square thing needs to be solidly constructed.
the materials are not that expensive .. might find scrap steel ..
but have to hire the holes to be drilled in the heavy steel.

too bad cant find a youtube of the process - fiets bob i appreciate your info - its just that i'm still confused with some of your info do to being unfamiliar with the stuff you are talking about

Visit a Machine shop of any size , or an auto repair, they would have one.
Arbor presses are a common machine repair tool.

Any good auto mechanic will be able to do the job as well....... They have a press for doing wheel bearings on front wheel drive vehicles that would work on the bike frame. Go to a well known small garage and ask.

Why did Klein use this BB set up instead of the standard threaded shell ? Sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

Exactly.

OP: unless the BB is totally trashed I'd probably just leave it alone. The reason you're not finding any tools/info/parts for this is because you have a very unusual BB only used for a couple years on some Gary Fisher/Klein/Trek MTBs. Any other BB would be readily serviceable.

Or sell the bike and get something with more standard parts.

I have the exact same frame (built up as an adventure tourer). I was able to disassemble the BB fairly easily with a pair of snap-ring pliers and a hammer. Upon determining that the shop did not have any bearings of the correct size (6003, if you're still looking for the exact model), I managed to re-seat the used bearings using a deep-wall socket and a hammer, sort of like setting a crown race with the appropriate diameter tube. I ordered the appropriate bearings, but in the meantime the old BB assembly has held up as well as it did before, so I'm not in a rush to replace it. I did flush out the bearings and injected some lightweight grease into them.
On the plus side, if you do decide to learn to work the BB, you'll always have cheap replacements, since the bearings are under $10 a set and old square taper spindles are a dime a dozen. You get the customization of replaceable spindles and the ease of sealed bearings.
Other things to keep in mind, your seatpost and stem diameter are 28.6mm. Good luck finding those.

Aside from it's relative rarity, it has some advantages. It uses only common, multi-use tools, only the bearings need to be replaced, unlike many modern cartridge units, and you could use a larger spindle, giving a stiffer bottom bracket.

But, since they never took off, and the few supporting brands went back to the standards, it's become a bit of a pain to work with. All in all, it's really one of these.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=230419

I've got a custom touring bike , built up with what was The BB shell and Bearing assembly
used for the rear of Burly's Tandems , bearing used
is also a Clutch Throw out bearing on some cars.
also Snap ring secured, .. but a significantly bigger bearing..

It happens to not have any vent Holes, in the BB shell,
so took out the seal on the inside
of both bearings , and with the Zirk i put in the shell,
Pumped a big reservoir of Phil Grease in the space between ,
be a long time before it runs short. can always add more..

yeah i'm inclined to leave it for now - if it gives an issue i'll probably bring to one of my LBSs

when i picked up the bike i liked everything about it (still do) - it rides nice - i noted the bb play and the unique bb - however - i was overconfident in regards to the issue - i figured - no biggie - i'll just do some research and tool up and adjust the bb - however - the info has been tough to come by - i'm a visual learner so i wish i had some vids or diagrams

funny thing is - i have a feeling that it'll just be a hammer job for the LBS - which i could also do - i am trying to visualize whats actually in there (any exploded diagrams of this BB out there?)

sincere thanks to all the replies folks

These spindles are not the same as the spindles used in the standard cup and cone type BB, and are very hard to find.

If ... you buy the replacement bearings thru Phil Wood, their 17mm BB axles will fit.
then match the bearing OD dimensions, the ID dimension will be 17mm , to their tolerance
to press fit the axle in... they do that in their cartridge bearing BB
(you can push the axle thru the bearings to change the offset).

My Touring bike build [Burly tandem BB parts]
there is a tube spacer between the 2 bearings, around the axle.
resting against the inner bearing race.
and a similar mechanical solution should work, if the axle does not have shoulder on it.

A press is an irresistible steady force, hammer blows sharp ones.
so pressing in the new parts would be best.

Once the BB shell bore is cleaned up, the fit may not be very tight, hand press..
then a bit of Loc Tite, on the edges of the bearings fills the gap.

ok here we go - we're moving ahead

arms off
some info off the BB
-says on each:
koyo, 6003rs, and japan
on the R side also a patent #

my local hardware store has the snap ring pliers which i'm gonna pick up
the snaps are on both sides
so first order of biz is to remove thos
is it a basic insert of the tips into the holes and then a squeeze...and thenthe clips 'pop' out
are they reinstalled the same way (the clips that is)?
we can debate how to get the bb out after i do the clips

edit:more measures to chew on
128 total axle length
87.5 shell width
36 inner shell diameter

some pics:

drive
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8481.jpg
non drive
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8479.jpg

rings are off
so now - how to get the bb out...
edit: bottom bracket guide screw out too

gave a few taps with the mallet to see if anything was budging and no nothing was

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/IMG_8489.jpg

Brass mallet, ie, softer than the steel axle, rear back and come-down on it,
more than a"tap' its been in there a while.
NB need to back it up against something solid .. hardwood blocks, perhaps..
Alternatively ..
you might be able to use a big socket, a thick fender washer , and another smaller washer perhaps.

and a long bolt, into the end of the spindle, the idea is to use the threading inside the spindle
to pull the BB out of the frame.

holding the opposite side with an adjustable wrench or bench vise..
pulling against the socket , and pulling the Bearing assembly
into the gap of the inside of the socket ,
[or a BB shell sized piece of steel tubing]

For that Id reduce the thing, take the wheels off, and so forth..