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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Fidbloke 04-04-16 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18659174)
No the hub is original. The new CR18 rim is not of course :). Both Sun CR18 weigh about the same as a single original steel rim. Very nice these Sun CR18s

? 26 tpi what ?

I need to purchase a die of the correct size.

A curiosity but apparently the brakes are self adjusting on these Raleighs?

J

It's probably 5/16 BSF. All the British Standard thread forms tend to be lumped together as 'Whitworth' as they share the same 55deg thread angle.

Salubrious 04-04-16 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18659829)
Running into an issue with remounting the drive-side crank. When the cotter is pushed in, it aligns in such a way that the base of the crank is rubbing pretty firmly on the cup. Judging by the condition of the backside of the crank (rough, chewed up), this was probably an issue from the factory. I have a reproduction crank that I've tried, and it fits fine, so I think the issue is with the crank itself...the cotter hole in the crank is further out than on the repro crank.

I've readjusted the BB repeatedly, trying to see if that affects anything (it doesn't). I'd really prefer not to use the repro crank (made in India, off of eBay), because it's not made nearly as well as the original, and the cranks themselves are about 1/2" longer, a potential issue on a Twenty.

This situation appears to be a manufacturing problem from the factory, but I have a hard time believing an issue this drastic got past QC, or past the bike shop that sold it. So, I have to assume I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what it can be. The spindle is installed correctly, long end on the drive-side. I've tried three different sets of cotter pins with the same result. I have NOT tried installing the NDS crank yet.

Is there a fix for this, aside from replacing the crank? What am I doing wrong?

I've run into this problem on the non-drive side of my '72 Superbe. IMO it is indeed a QC problem- one that would never have happened in an earlier decade. The 70s was not a kind era to the British 3-speeds! You can't adjust it out if the crank is engaging the BB hardware. Are you certain though that you have the correct BB axle?



Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18660664)
Just does not look all English Racer without a proper lamp.

FWIW dept: When I was a kid I heard this a lot in reference to British 3-speeds (with upright seating) but Master Sheldon is emphatic that such a term should not be used in this way.

arex 04-04-16 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18662510)
I've run into this problem on the non-drive side of my '72 Superbe. IMO it is indeed a QC problem- one that would never have happened in an earlier decade. The 70s was not a kind era to the British 3-speeds! You can't adjust it out if the crank is engaging the BB hardware. Are you certain though that you have the correct BB axle?

Fairly sure...it's the one that was in the BB, and the grease was like putty, so I doubt it had ever been apart before.

I'm gonna take it all apart and make sure I don't have too many balls in one of the cups or something.

Loose Chain 04-04-16 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18662510)
FWIW dept: When I was a kid I heard this a lot in reference to British 3-speeds (with upright seating) but Master Sheldon is emphatic that such a term should not be used in this way.

I am quite certain it is evident I was using humor or tongue in cheek. I am also quite certain that I worship only one God and as fine a gentleman Sheldon Brown is he is not God and I am also further certain that anyone who rode bicycles with a chicken glued to the crown of their helmet did have a sense of humor and would know I was teasing.

And, since you are so serious, where I clearly was not, if you Google English Racer the photos that will result sure look like my little bicycle and even further certain that a huge percentage of baby boomers know exactly what an English Racer is regardless of what Sheldon Brown would wish for them to call it. I know, when as a boy, I raced everything I could on mine so that would have made it my English Racer.

And thank you Mr. Sheldon for all of your wisdom, humor and years of help to all cyclists everywhere.

Edit to add:

The new aluminum CR18 wheels weigh 1lb.1oz. each. The removed original steel wheels weigh 1lb.14oz. each for a total weight saving (rotating mass) of 1lb.10oz. total.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psoj2bwhzm.jpg

The new aluminum platform pedals weigh exactly 1/2 of the original Raleigh rubber block pedals, 10oz each vs. a total of 10oz. for the aluminum pedals.

So I took 2lbs. and 4oz. from the Raleigh Sports. I removed the frame crushing kickstand a long time ago. I have never owned a bike with a kickstand, I see no purpose to them (I saved it away). Of course I added a light system, dynamo and rack and will soon order the recommended B72 saddle. But I cannot resist removing rotating mass. The bike definitely feels more sporty with the new wheels and pedals and the wheels feel stiffer. I am pleased with it. I saved the original spokes, wheels and nipples. Just a data point for anybody interested in the future.

J

BigChief 04-05-16 07:53 AM

I also still maintain an affinity to the admittedly incorrect term "English Racer". Back in the early 60s, I had a paper route, little money, but still a knowledge of what real racing bikes were. The only way a kid like me was going to have a racer was to find an old beat up Nottingham made Sports model, strip all non-essentials off and flip the bars around. To me, it was a racer. Compared to the usual, at the time, balloon tired American tanks, they were like Ferraris.
Also, We do tend to call all British sized threads Whitworth. Spanners too. But to be fair, this is how they were sold to us.

bmthom.gis 04-05-16 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18664032)
I am quite certain it is evident I was using humor or tongue in cheek. I am also quite certain that I worship only one God and as fine a gentleman Sheldon Brown is he is not God and I am also further certain that anyone who rode bicycles with a chicken glued to the crown of their helmet did have a sense of humor and would know I was teasing.

And, since you are so serious, where I clearly was not, if you Google English Racer the photos that will result sure look like my little bicycle and even further certain that a huge percentage of baby boomers know exactly what an English Racer is regardless of what Sheldon Brown would wish for them to call it. I know, when as a boy, I raced everything I could on mine so that would have made it my English Racer.

And thank you Mr. Sheldon for all of your wisdom, humor and years of help to all cyclists everywhere.

Edit to add:

The new aluminum CR18 wheels weigh 1lb.1oz. each. The removed original steel wheels weigh 1lb.14oz. each for a total weight saving (rotating mass) of 1lb.10oz. total.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psoj2bwhzm.jpg

The new aluminum platform pedals weigh exactly 1/2 of the original Raleigh rubber block pedals, 10oz each vs. a total of 10oz. for the aluminum pedals.

So I took 2lbs. and 4oz. from the Raleigh Sports. I removed the frame crushing kickstand a long time ago. I have never owned a bike with a kickstand, I see no purpose to them (I saved it away). Of course I added a light system, dynamo and rack and will soon order the recommended B72 saddle. But I cannot resist removing rotating mass. The bike definitely feels more sporty with the new wheels and pedals and the wheels feel stiffer. I am pleased with it. I saved the original spokes, wheels and nipples. Just a data point for anybody interested in the future.

J

Cool! My CR18 rims just came in the mail yesterday, and I am going to start lacing them up tomorrow.

Salubrious 04-05-16 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18664032)
And, since you are so serious, where I clearly was not, if you Google English Racer the photos that will result sure look like my little bicycle and even further certain that a huge percentage of baby boomers know exactly what an English Racer is regardless of what Sheldon Brown would wish for them to call it. I know, when as a boy, I raced everything I could on mine so that would have made it my English Racer.

And thank you Mr. Sheldon for all of your wisdom, humor and years of help to all cyclists everywhere.

Edit to add:

The new aluminum CR18 wheels weigh 1lb.1oz. each. The removed original steel wheels weigh 1lb.14oz. each for a total weight saving (rotating mass) of 1lb.10oz. total.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psoj2bwhzm.jpg

The new aluminum platform pedals weigh exactly 1/2 of the original Raleigh rubber block pedals, 10oz each vs. a total of 10oz. for the aluminum pedals.

So I took 2lbs. and 4oz. from the Raleigh Sports. I removed the frame crushing kickstand a long time ago. I have never owned a bike with a kickstand, I see no purpose to them (I saved it away). Of course I added a light system, dynamo and rack and will soon order the recommended B72 saddle. But I cannot resist removing rotating mass. The bike definitely feels more sporty with the new wheels and pedals and the wheels feel stiffer. I am pleased with it. I saved the original spokes, wheels and nipples. Just a data point for anybody interested in the future.

J

You mean- I gotcha on that one? :) I was kidding too.


Those don't look like the usual Kenda tires. What sort are they (BTW, I run Michelins on my Superbe, they allow 85 psi for a little quicker ride).

Velocivixen 04-05-16 10:11 AM

My Raleigh Twenty is April's cover girl....I mean Cover Photo for the Raleigh Twenty site. If you're interested, go here: http://raleightwenty.webs.com

It was a nice honor to be asked.

dweenk 04-05-16 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18660664)
So, now with both new CR18 aluminum wheels laced on with new stainless spokes and new light weight aluminum platform pedals the little Raleigh Sports moves along most sportingly. A few adjustments yet but it seems the little critter will live for another few decades as my coffee and latte ride. Just need to find that SA light bracket but if not I will make one. Just does not look all English Racer without a proper lamp.

If you are referring to a lamp bracket hung from the headset, I have a rusty one that you may have for free. PM me.

DQRider 04-05-16 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18665676)
My Raleigh Twenty is April's cover girl....I mean Cover Photo for the Raleigh Twenty site. If you're interested, go here: http://raleightwenty.webs.com

It was a nice honor to be asked.

Beautiful job on that `20, V. I really like that shade of green - utterly English. How does it ride?

Loose Chain 04-05-16 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18665631)
You mean- I gotcha on that one? :) I was kidding too.


Those don't look like the usual Kenda tires. What sort are they (BTW, I run Michelins on my Superbe, they allow 85 psi for a little quicker ride).

:p They are the Bell Streetster tires. Several years ago I bought a few sets for a rainy day. They are actually pretty nice. Soft rubber, folding bead and roll nicely.


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18666912)
If you are referring to a lamp bracket hung from the headset, I have a rusty one that you may have for free. PM me.

Thank you so much for the offer but I think you are offering the part that attaches to the headset :) and what I need is the part that attaches to the light:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s7ja9ay8c.jpeg

I borrowed that pic from the interwebs so I hope whoever does not mind. I will trade a nice set of spokes and original rims ;).

Hey, when riding your British three speed bicycles (for Sheldon ;) ) do you guys and ladies wear a helmet? I know my parents would be put in jail today for abuse but you know, I do not recall anybody wearing a helmet whilst riding upon their British three speed bicycles

J

Velocivixen 04-05-16 07:40 PM

[MENTION=429363]DQRider[/MENTION] - It originally has a nylon "collar" inside the upper head tube instead of the typical pressed cup for a headset - the bottom is normal headset. See photo:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/523/1...3b6d5125_z.jpgPlastic Headset Bushing by velocivixen, on Flickr

I followed what a lot of people on the internet said about using a "normal" headset top & bottom. It makes the steering extremely light or somewhat "twitchy", so I'm almost tempted to put it back in. The collar also helped (I forget how) when folding, which I never do. The bike was rated best small wheeled bike in the '70's by an English "Consumer Report type" magazine.

CuttersRidge 04-06-16 10:11 PM

Very unique, the claim is a 1966 women's Raleigh Sport, all chrome I think, even the chain guard.

Very nice, the price is not. They are a real specialty store though;

Budget Bicycle Center - Vintage 1966 Raleigh Ladies Sports All Chrome Dealer Model Bicycle Bike Sturmey

I've never seen this kind.

streets 04-07-16 10:07 AM


Originally Posted by CuttersRidge (Post 18670507)
Very unique, the claim is a 1966 women's Raleigh Sport, all chrome I think, even the chain guard.

Very nice, the price is not. They are a real specialty store though;

Budget Bicycle Center - Vintage 1966 Raleigh Ladies Sports All Chrome Dealer Model Bicycle Bike Sturmey

I've never seen this kind.

The all chrome plated Sports are pretty rare, particularly the ladies model it seems. I heard the same as the advert states- They were given to the Raleigh dealerships as a promotion piece. That price is pretty keen though, wow.

noglider 04-07-16 10:39 AM

[MENTION=177039]Fenway[/MENTION], that's a pretty special bike you have there. Are you running your modern lights with an old 1.8w dynamo hub? How well does that work? I wouldn't have thought it possible.

mirfi 04-07-16 01:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hello, I now have a 'carry' socket that fits the axle nuts on my R20. The axle nut being Whitworth 1/4, BSF 5/16, Metric 13.34, Inch .525 the closest "common' SAE size is 17/32 (.53 inch, 13.49mm). Ordered a deep six sided socket and drilled a hole in it that will accept a variety of levers. Note: access to a drill press eased the drilling.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514354
It's not perfect, but it is close.

Also, besides this size is there another unique size that I should carry?

streets 04-07-16 01:36 PM

I have this 1937(?) Raleigh, which I believe is a 27X model (thanks to a forum member for helping identify it).
It's complete but a work in progress. I started doing a few custom touches to it, like relocating the headlamp and tail light, bare metal (the original paint was long gone) but I'm starting to wonder whether I should do a straight-up restoration instead.
It has 28" wheels, hub brakes, full chain case and crazy high gearing! Lovely thing to ride though.
Can't find a lot of information on this particular model. Anyone have experience with them?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psa519b81a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psaf3a9b60.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psbc860650.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps5113d7e6.jpg

DQRider 04-07-16 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by streets (Post 18672454)
I have this 1937(?) Raleigh, which I believe is a 27X model (thanks to a forum member for helping identify it).
It's complete but a work in progress. I started doing a few custom touches to it, like relocating the headlamp and tail light, bare metal (the original paint was long gone) but I'm starting to wonder whether I should do a straight-up restoration instead.
It has 28" wheels, hub brakes, full chain case and crazy high gearing! Lovely thing to ride though.
Can't find a lot of information on this particular model. Anyone have experience with them?

+1 for full resto. If it was a DL1, there are enough of those around that one could be forgiven for building a custom out of it. But how many of these still exist in riding condition?

Because the original paint is gone, "preservation" is out of the question. Restoration would be a long and interesting journey.

Salubrious 04-07-16 02:35 PM

I dunno- just me I guess but I think the light looks better hanging off of the headset. My BSA gets lots of nice comments based on that location.

I think restoration would be good too. Its hard to find a machine that was equipped with a sector-style shift!

streets 04-07-16 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18672598)
+1 for full resto. If it was a DL1, there are enough of those around that one could be forgiven for building a custom out of it. But how many of these still exist in riding condition?

Because the original paint is gone, "preservation" is out of the question. Restoration would be a long and interesting journey.

I know what you mean, I have other bikes that I could customise instead and I think it would be a rather handsome bike once restored.



Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18672687)
I dunno- just me I guess but I think the light looks better hanging off of the headset. My BSA gets lots of nice comments based on that location.

I think restoration would be good too. Its hard to find a machine that was equipped with a sector-style shift!


The lamp placement always looked too high for my tastes on these bikes. I thought the lower lamp mounting looked a little sleeker, but I suppose that's not really what these bikes are about!
I am leaning toward a restoration right now. Replacing the chrome has been putting me off though, that's probably going to hurt.



Just realised I've posted this bike before in this thread. Oh well! :rolleyes:

artclone 04-07-16 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by streets (Post 18672760)
I know what you mean, I have other bikes that I could customise instead and I think it would be a rather handsome bike once restored.





The lamp placement always looked too high for my tastes on these bikes. I thought the lower lamp mounting looked a little sleeker, but I suppose that's not really what these bikes are about!
I am leaning toward a restoration right now. Replacing the chrome has been putting me off though, that's probably going to hurt.



Just realised I've posted this bike before in this thread. Oh well! :rolleyes:

+1 Restore!

Looks like a perfect candidate - - not much to do in the way of repair and parts. Really cool bike.

Loose Chain 04-07-16 07:34 PM

Well, semi-offical garage door picture. I will have to wait until I get back from a business trip in Europe to order the Brooks saddle and find/build the headlamp clamp. But I took it for another spin today and it seems fully functional, even slightly spiffy. As it leans against the door it weighs exactly 35 pounds of English steel (with headlamp). I come to think eliminating weight from these three speed tanks is an exercise in futility. The portly poundage and soft frames ask to be ridden sedately.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psch36xmh6.jpg

Heck, the rack weighs more than some cf bikes in total ;). It is kinda cute!

J

DQRider 04-07-16 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18673440)
Well, semi-offical garage door picture. I will have to wait until I get back from a business trip in Europe to order the Brooks saddle and find/build the headlamp clamp. But I took it for another spin today and it seems fully functional, even slightly spiffy. As it leans against the door it weighs exactly 35 pounds of English steel (with headlamp). I come to think eliminating weight from these three speed tanks is an exercise in futility. The portly poundage and soft frames ask to be ridden sedately.
Heck, the rack weighs more than some cf bikes in total ;). It is kinda cute!

J

Well said! :thumb: I agree about the weight thing. Not much you can do when you start with that frame, and all the steel components. I suppose you could spend a fortune on alloy stuff, and maybe bring it down to as little as 28 lbs - but that would completely change the character of the bike, and probably not for the better.

Salubrious 04-07-16 08:47 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18673440)
Well, semi-offical garage door picture. I will have to wait until I get back from a business trip in Europe to order the Brooks saddle and find/build the headlamp clamp. But I took it for another spin today and it seems fully functional, even slightly spiffy. As it leans against the door it weighs exactly 35 pounds of English steel (with headlamp). I come to think eliminating weight from these three speed tanks is an exercise in futility. The portly poundage and soft frames ask to be ridden sedately.

J

If you gear it right, you can do pretty well, but they are no speedsters. I've had mine up to 26 mph but I was pedaling like mad. But if you don't push it hard, you can cover ground. Do you know about the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour (coming up next month!)? The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour

Loose Chain 04-07-16 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18673670)
If you gear it right, you can do pretty well, but they are no speedsters. I've had mine up to 26 mph but I was pedaling like mad. But if you don't push it hard, you can cover ground. Do you know about the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour (coming up next month!)? The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour

Maybe some year I can do something like that. But I will just be getting home from a business trip. I recall that I topped 30 MPH on my bike when I was a (pre) teen. It had a speedometer on it, till I broke it.

No offense, lol, but this frame is like a soggy noodle. Which, for the intended purpose is not a disadvantage, the ride is soft and pleasant and even a little sporting (possibly because my frame is the 21 gives it a taughter feel). I like it and will quite enjoy it.

Does everything of British origin be required by some law, perhaps in the Magna Carta it is codified, that oil leaking is specified? Is a puddle of oil under the SA mandatory? My wife does not particularly care for this charming trait ;).


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