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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 05-12-16 09:44 AM

Probably a Danish market export model. The dual drum set up is popular there. Further, the S prefix stamp would correspond to year 1979 in the Danish import system.

BigChief 05-12-16 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18761224)
Hello BigChief,
thanks, i get lots of pictures but none exactly corresponds with my kind of hub, also the Hub interior and end nuts of the hub itself are shown, but not how it is built into the frame/dropouts. Will make some potos when i'm home..

Kai

oops, I missed the part about drum brakes.
Got the 64 almost finished this morning. Got hungry and came in for lunch. Still have to take her out on the road and adjust everything.
This was an easy project. Everything went smoothly. I think this bike likes me.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...ech/64s001.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...ech/64s002.jpg

noglider 05-12-16 10:39 AM

@dweenk, the SKS look nice and appear to be an easy installation. The old Raleigh ones might be worth the trouble to make look nice, but that's up to you. The maroon ones are horrible.

streets 05-12-16 11:03 AM

@BigChief That's a handsome 3 speed, very nice.

3speedslow 05-12-16 11:22 AM

@BigChief , that cleaned up fantastic. Paint looks good.

w1gfh 05-12-16 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18761691)
oops, I missed the part about drum brakes.
Got the 64 almost finished this morning. Got hungry and came in for lunch. Still have to take her out on the road and adjust everything.
This was an easy project. Everything went smoothly. I think this bike likes me.

Wow, BigChief, looking good. '64 was a *very good year*.

Took my '68 out for its first warm weather/sunny day ride today (yeah, New England weather) in a long time. I was replacing the tube on the front tire earlier and noticed a slight, high rattling sound coming from the front hub when I shook it. Like sand...or bearings (!). Could it be the bearings are pulverized or loose? It rides OK and doesn't hum or scrape. What gives?

EDIT: I'm going to look into the front hub bearings and see what's going on. My research tells me there should be ten 3/16" ball bearings on each side.


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/...d02701f88f.jpgIMAG1102 by w1gfh, on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/...be114792ef.jpgIMAG1105 by w1gfh, on Flickr

BigChief 05-12-16 01:57 PM

Thanks, I was lucky with this one. Whatever bent the crank arm didn't seem to hurt anything else. I thought for sure I'd be bending the stays, but they were good. I replaced all the ball bearings except for those tiny ones under the dust cap inside the hub. Cleaned everything up, did a polish and wax on the paint, hammered out a couple soft dents in the fender, trued up the wheels a bit ( they could use more work) and took the trigger shifter off my Sprite and installed it with a nifty NOS white cable I saved for just such an occasion. I must have 6 triggers in my parts box, but the only non embossed one with the silk screened logo this bike needed was in use. This was a nice, easy project...no swear words...not one!

BigChief 05-12-16 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 18762363)
Wow, BigChief, looking good. '64 was a *very good year*.

Took my '68 out for its first warm weather/sunny day ride today (yeah, New England weather) in a long time. I was replacing the tube on the front tire earlier and noticed a slight, high rattling sound coming from the front hub when I shook it. Like sand...or bearings (!). Could it be the bearings are pulverized or loose? It rides OK and doesn't hum or scrape. What gives?
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7063/...d02701f88f.jpgIMAG1102 by w1gfh, on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/...be114792ef.jpgIMAG1105 by w1gfh, on Flickr


Twins!!!

AngeloDolce 05-12-16 02:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18761224)
Hello BigChief,
thanks, i get lots of pictures but none exactly corresponds with my kind of hub, also the Hub interior and end nuts of the hub itself are shown, but not how it is built into the frame/dropouts. Will make some potos when i'm home..

Kai

This sounds like the AB hub, the AW hub with a drum brake attached. I have some (1960's) bikes sold in the Netherlands with this hub.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521207

There is a link to another diagram at
http://vancruisers.ca/tech/manuals/s..._download/file

Sheldon Brown has a list of Sturmey Archer hubs, in case it's not an AB hub; this might help searching.
https://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet_s-a-hubs.html

You can find images on line; unfortunately you may need to make some adjustments for individual wheels and frames so you may need to experiment even if you find the right diagram. The key item is to make sure that the tabs on the anti-rotation washers are in the slots on the frame.

AngeloDolce 05-12-16 02:19 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18760987)
Hello,
i have a problem or several regarding my Raleigh supposed to be a DL1, from appx. 1979/80 (mark on the SA hubs is 79). It has a "Tourist-S" lettering on the all-enclosing chain gearcase. Someone here said it could be an export model. It has SA brake drums 90 mm front and aft.
Despite its good looks all bearing shells were pitted, so i ordered a lot of parts and began to unmount the hubs, which is when i began to suspect the former owner had mounted some parts in the wrong way, and order.

1. is there an exploded view of how the order of assembly of shims and nuts is on the front and rear axle. I know it should be self-describing and easy, but frankly i am not used to this kind of assembly. There are lots of shims and thicker rings, along with thinner and wider nuts.
It seems every of the four hub/axle ends is somehow different.

2. The rear gear hub does only work in gears 2 and 3, not 1. Cannot shift down properly, and i suspect it has to do something with the length of the axle stub, on the right (rear, of course) side. Which brings me to question 1.

Thanks,
Kai

For suggestions on (2), what does not work in gear 1?
Do gears 2 and 3 give different gears and work correctly?

Adjusting the cable is the easiest check to make, and solves many problems. If you're not sure the axle and indicator match, I'd check the cable to make sure the neutral is between 2nd and 3rd gears. If you can shift into 1st gear but still have problems, it may require more extensive trouble shooting and repair.

Narsinha 05-12-16 02:28 PM

Hello again,
thanks, every answer is a further part of the puzzle :) It is an AB hub, definitely, imprinted on the hub's surface

Some pictures:

The whole thing, changed the original sqare plastic lamp against an older Miller one:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psssknofwj.jpg


Front right side (right side of riding direction, from the front):
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psfjl4uxj3.jpg


Front left side
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psrco27vjm.jpg


Rear right side with cable
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psetqt52us.jpg


Rear left side
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psrppm5ibf.jpg


The mudguard stays at the rear are fixed on the upper screw, together with the rack stays - the diagonal stays coming from the saddle fit better on the axle (have abig hole), than on the smaller upper screw holding the rack and the mudguard stays.
But maybe the order or poisition is wrong?


Another one of the rear end, left side:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...ps1pccqkm4.jpg

Is the order of fitting right? Are there shims missing, or too much? Thanks a lot, will be an interesting weekend, looking forward..

Kai

Narsinha 05-12-16 02:45 PM

Regarding the gear change: I am able to shift from 2nd to 3rd and back, but not into first.
Even if i pull the chain out until there is resistance, it will not switch into first.

Have tried following:
Screwed the chain with the long tapered "wire" until resistance, then back half a turn appx., so that the chain can easily turn to 90 degrees forward.
1. try: switched to 3rd gear, cabel slack, but not having a bulge while hanging - does not work.
2. try: switched to 2nd gear 'neutral', and screwed the cable to the chain so that the end of the wire connecting to the chain is just so visible in the hollow cyylinder screw - does not work as well.
3. try screwed all as tight as possible so that the 1st gear poition of the switch oulls it out fully when engaged, does not work as well.

No idea left now..

Salubrious 05-12-16 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18762588)
Have tried following:
Screwed the chain with the long tapered "wire" until resistance, then back half a turn appx., so that the chain can easily turn to 90 degrees forward.
1. try: switched to 3rd gear, cabel slack, but not having a bulge while hanging - does not work.
2. try: switched to 2nd gear 'neutral', and screwed the cable to the chain so that the end of the wire connecting to the chain is just so visible in the hollow cyylinder screw - does not work as well.
3. try screwed all as tight as possible so that the 1st gear poition of the switch oulls it out fully when engaged, does not work as well.

No idea left now..

If this bike has not been in use, the thing to do is to put about an ounce of WD-40 or other very light oil in the hub and take it for a ride of several miles. You may find that 1st gear starts to show up after a bit- its probably just gummed up.

Once it seems to shift correctly, drain out the WD-40 and install a proper lubricant.

artclone 05-12-16 03:17 PM

Before adjusting the cable, unhook the cable and make sure the control rod itself is screwed all the way into the hub and then backed out 1/4 turn. I've seen these be a few turns or more loose and no adjustment of the cable would get everything right.

What I'm calling the control rod is the thing the chain connects to on the other end from the shifting cable.

(Edit: Unless this is what you describe doing already. I can't tell from your post if you screwed in the control rod or the cable adjuster in and out.)

BigChief 05-12-16 03:25 PM

+1. Transmission or brake fluid works well too. Makes a mess, but can free up hubs that have been sitting still for a long time.

gster 05-12-16 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18761691)
oops, I missed the part about drum brakes.
Got the 64 almost finished this morning. Got hungry and came in for lunch. Still have to take her out on the road and adjust everything.
This was an easy project. Everything went smoothly. I think this bike likes me.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...ech/64s001.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...ech/64s002.jpg

Classy!

Velocivixen 05-12-16 07:02 PM

Wow, some gorgeous bikes you all!

I have a puzzle:

My Twenty has a 1972 drivetrain with AW 3-speed hub and original shifter. I deep cleaned & relubed the shifter, replaced the cable only and squirted Tri-Flo into the original housing. I rebuilt the hub about 6 weeks ago without any issues. I do know how to adjust the RIGHT side after a rebuild and how to adjust the left side of the AW hub. I know to screw the indicator pin finger tight, then back off approximately 1/2 turn and make sure the chain exits the metal guide at the end of the axle properly.

So....when in gear 2 when I "flick" the trigger to 3 (a relaxed state) the trigger seems to change to 3 but it doesn't do that positive "click" feel, so after I flick it, I nudge it with my thumb just to make sure it's really in 3. Works fine and I consistently have access to all 3 gears. I thought maybe the sluggishness into 3 was either the indicator chain and/or the inner clutch spring. I replaced the indicator chain and it was a tiny bit better. Here's the doozy - I replaced the clutch spring with a nice new, stiff spring (much stiffer than the original one), readjusted the RIGHT side cone, adjusted the left, installed into bike and adjusted the gearing. I adjust so that I just barely see the "shoulder" of the indicator pin even with the end of the axle when I look through the little window. On the stand my problem is solved - when in 2 I can "flick" and it clicks positively into 3, however I cannot get into low gear (1). I move the shift lever to 1, the chain pulls the indicator pin out, but the actual gear doesn't change.

I adjusted, then readjusted the right, then the left cones thinking I made a mistake (I adjusted multiple times as well as made fine tune adjustments to the indicator pin) . Nothing I did made a difference, until I reinstalled the original spring, adjusted all the cones then it worked the way I did prior to this entire exercise.

Only thing I can think of is that the combination of a new, very stiff spring plus old lever and or having old housing may have been enough to cause it not to want to go into low gear. I have a brand new lever on my modified fixed up Twenty and the shifting on that is like new, so I know (believe) that the lever is part of the issue.

Ideas? Obviously I'm gonna stick with the original spring and not worry about it. Eventually I may replace the shift lever.

w1gfh 05-12-16 08:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18763129)
when in gear 2 when I "flick" the trigger to 3 (a relaxed state) the trigger seems to change to 3 but it doesn't do that positive "click" feel, so after I flick it, I nudge it with my thumb just to make sure it's really in 3.

I love the older (mid 1960s) shift lever triggers, but unfortunately they do get worn and can be prone to sticking or sluggishness. I have one that had similar issues. I used a Dremel to grind the rough spots off the face of the pawl so it solidly engages the teeth. You have to sort of pry it up and wedge it with the flat blade of a screwdriver to get at it for grinding, but it was much improved. The other thing you can adjust is the metal housing that the trigger moves in, either squeezing the sides together if it's too loose, or prying them open if it's too tight.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521284

Narhay 05-12-16 08:11 PM

I'm considering purchasing dropout alignment tools but I'd like to know if anyone has used them on Raleigh 3 speeds with their flat fork tips and the smaller rear dropout slots.

Velocivixen 05-12-16 08:13 PM

@w1gfh - Thanks for taking the time to respond to my very long post. Yes, I really like the older trigger shifters, yet noted that brand new ones shift like butter - but they're ugly. What are your thoughts on the new spring not letting me get into my lowest gear? The spring they sold me was black, not silver like the original one, but was the same otherwise. I thought maybe the spring was for ? maybe a newer AW hub or something.

Velocivixen 05-12-16 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 18763259)
I'm considering purchasing dropout alignment tools but I'd like to know if anyone has used them on Raleigh 3 speeds with their flat fork tips and the smaller rear dropout slots.

Yes, as a matter of fact I used it on my Raleigh Twenty the day before yesterday - it has rear dropouts of 114mm and the tool works fine. My dropouts were slightly off and was able to easily get them parallel to one another.
@Narhay - are you talking about something like these?

http://www.parktool.com/product/fram...auge-set-ffg-2

Narhay 05-12-16 08:21 PM

Yes those are the ones. Does your 20 have the flat keyed fork tips?

Velocivixen 05-12-16 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 18763281)
Yes those are the ones. Does your 20 have the flat keyed fork tips?

As a matter of fact yes - I did not try them on the front. When you say "keyed" do you mean that the slot looks like a "keyhole"?

Want me me to remove my front wheel & see if the tool works on them?

w1gfh 05-12-16 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18763263)
@w1gfh - Thanks for taking the time to respond to my very long post. Yes, I really like the older trigger shifters, yet noted that brand new ones shift like butter - but they're ugly. What are your thoughts on the new spring not letting me get into my lowest gear? The spring they sold me was black, not silver like the original one, but was the same otherwise. I thought maybe the spring was for ? maybe a newer AW hub or something.

Yes, I could buy a new shifter and have the "butter" experience, but I put up with some imperfections because I enjoy the retro beauty of the older ones.

Sorry, I've never taken an AW hub apart. Never had to. The ones I've owned have all performed perfectly after the "WD40 spray/then drain/then oil" restoration method.

I think if you can eliminate the shifter as being the cause, then you can go back to look into the hub.

The other thing on R20s is the weirdly-angled cable stop clamped to the frame, where the shift cable comes out of the cable housing. I find all kinds of road gunk gets in there and sometimes makes for rough shifting.

agmetal 05-12-16 08:34 PM

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: could it be that you have a non-original indicator spindle of an incorrect length?


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