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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gna 05-20-16 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18782732)
In my experience a real penetrating oil like PB Blaster or a home 50/50 mix of hydraulic oil and acetone works far better than WD40.
Can't imagine why SA would change the ball ring notches from square to half round.

They switched to half round notches some time in the late '70s. You can get a special spanner:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Y.../C-spanner.jpg

artclone 05-21-16 12:25 AM

Kinda interesting: Raleigh Sports equiped with Garelli Mosquito motor for sale:
Moped 1951 Raleigh Sports Mini "Baby" Mosquito

BigChief 05-21-16 04:01 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18784849)
They switched to half round notches some time in the late '70s. You can get a special spanner:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Y.../C-spanner.jpg

Designing in rounded edges that would want to cam any tool you are using outward is just plain stupid. It's like putting rounded edges on a nut. I'm filing this under dumb SA 70s ideas like eliminating the nut on pulley clips and plastic trigger covers that always cracked.

slowtostart 05-21-16 07:03 AM

Velocivixen, this one's for you?
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/bik/5576942314.html

BigChief 05-21-16 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18785396)

Even if it isn't, it might be a flipper. RSWs usually are in the $300 asking price range.

slowtostart 05-21-16 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18785486)
Even if it isn't, it might be a flipper. RSWs usually are in the $300 asking price range.

Any thoughts on condition?

BigChief 05-21-16 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18785496)
Any thoughts on condition?

From what I can see in the pictures, it seems to be in great condition. Late 60s or early 70s I'd say. I don't know anything about folders, but I'm always scanning for new Raleigh projects and I see these RSWs come up from time to time. They're always asking in the 300 dollar range in this sort of condition which surprises me. I wouldn't want one. I can see a 20, but a 16" ? Can't go by asking prices really, but they must have a following.

Velocivixen 05-21-16 09:29 AM

@slowtostart - interesting bike. I live on the very west coast of the US, so South Jersey would be a bit of a drive.:thumb:

Loose Chain 05-21-16 10:03 AM

What is the advantage or disadvantage of routing the shift cable amlong the TT and then down a seat stay vs along the down tube and wheel stay? Seems the down tube routing would be preferred but I see older bikes with the diamond frame tend to run along the top tube.

clubman 05-21-16 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18785647)
What is the advantage or disadvantage of routing the shift cable amlong the TT and then down a seat stay vs along the down tube and wheel stay? Seems the down tube routing would be preferred but I see older bikes with the diamond frame tend to run along the top tube.

It's preferable to run along the top so that the cable meets the axle perpendicular to the dropouts. This minimizes shifting errors if the wheel moves or is moved in the horizontal dropouts. If you run along the downtube/chainstays, any axle movement will require readjustment of any of the following, fulcrum clamp, cable stops and indicator chain.

w1gfh 05-21-16 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18785564)
From what I can see in the pictures, it seems to be in great condition. Late 60s or early 70s I'd say. I don't know anything about folders, but I'm always scanning for new Raleigh projects and I see these RSWs come up from time to time. They're always asking in the 300 dollar range in this sort of condition which surprises me. I wouldn't want one. I can see a 20, but a 16" ? Can't go by asking prices really, but they must have a following.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d75b533ed8.jpghttp://40.media.tumblr.com/7db3f87d9...6o97o1_500.jpg

gster 05-21-16 12:36 PM

Too bad for Ringo. He's snapped 'is bloody bike in two.

Loose Chain 05-21-16 12:42 PM

I am not sure I understand the appeal of a bike that barely folds? I would love something that si small and light that I could toss in the back of past and future airplanes I may own but otherwise, why? They are kinda cute though.

w1gfh 05-21-16 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18785942)
I am not sure I understand the appeal of a bike that barely folds? I would love something that si small and light that I could toss in the back of past and future airplanes I may own but otherwise, why? They are kinda cute though.

It seems lots of actresses ride folding bikes. Maybe that's why Ringo bought one.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...3a75c71666.jpghttp://iv1.lisimg.com/image/429277/2...nna-karina.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...83b5faabb9.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1bc0478d19.jpg

Narsinha 05-21-16 03:36 PM

Hello,
just an update, used a punch and a hammer, together with a product called "Rost-Schock": WEICON Rost-Schock (Spray).
This cools down the material instantly, while inserting its stuff by capillary action, they call it "chemical wrench". The idea with hydraulic fluid and acetone is also very good, will try this next time.
Also thanks for the table with the different fluids and what they achieve .. good bye WD-40 ;)

Was able to open it, innards look good. Will oil and assemble it thoroughly tomorrow, and post the outcome.

Thanks all,
Kai

Velocivixen 05-21-16 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18786255)
Hello,
just an update, used a punch and a hammer, together with a product called "Rost-Schock": WEICON Rost-Schock (Spray).
This cools down the material instantly, while inserting its stuff by capillary action, they call it "chemical wrench". The idea with hydraulic fluid and acetone is also very good, will try this next time.
Also thanks for the table with the different fluids and what they achieve .. good bye WD-40 ;)

Was able to open it, innards look good. Will oil and assemble it thoroughly tomorrow, and post the outcome.

Thanks all,
Kai

Hooray! As I'm sure you will, clean the threads of the hub shell as well as the ball ring and grease so you will never have this issue again. Good to hear everything looks as it should.

SirMike1983 05-21-16 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18784592)
As far as penetrating liquids, this chart is something to think about:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...52C%2B2015.png

I often cite this chart as well. It's generally right. The only issues are that the acetone-ATF mix will kill paint quickly, so it is not always the best choice, even if it has the lowest break poundage. I've found Kroil to be significantly better than Liquid Wrench, or anything else besides the acetone-ATF, for that matter. Kroil is great with repeated heating and cooling because it really seeps in.

gster 05-22-16 06:28 AM

Another Bitsa
A Bitsa is a British term for something (usually a motorbike) that's made from bits of this and bits of that....I had said I would tidy up a bike for a young woman that I work with.She picked up a CCM 3 Speed from me last week and wanted to give her old bike to her mother. It turned out to be an odd Swedish bike, a Crescent. I ended up getting the bike about 80% back together before I realized that the frame was badly bent.....https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0426.jpg?w=680

A quick visit to George at Parts Unknown produced a very nice Ladies Norman bicycle circa 1960 (pre Raleigh). Anything useable was salvaged from the original bike and transfered, including the aluminum rims, stem and bars,basket, etc.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0427.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0428.jpg?w=680
I was able to salvage some useful 3 Speed parts from the Norman and transfer to some other projects.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0432.jpg?w=680
The bike is currently set up with a coaster brake back wheel and a single front caliper. The chain guard is from an Eatons Glider.Not a show bike but quite presentable

BigChief 05-22-16 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18787298)
Another Bitsa
A Bitsa is a British term for something (usually a motorbike) that's made from bits of this and bits of that....I had said I would tidy up a bike for a young woman that I work with.She picked up a CCM 3 Speed from me last week and wanted to give her old bike to her mother. It turned out to be an odd Swedish bike, a Crescent. I ended up getting the bike about 80% back together before I realized that the frame was badly bent.....https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0426.jpg?w=680A quick visit to George at Parts Unknown produced a very nice Ladies Norman bicycle circa 1960 (pre Raleigh). Anything useable was salvaged from the original bike and transfered, including the aluminum rims, stem and bars, basket, etc.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0427.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0428.jpg?w=680I was able to salvage some useful 3 Speed parts from the Norman and transfer to some other projects.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0432.jpg?w=680The bike is currently set up with a coaster brake back wheel and a single front caliper. The chain guard is from an Eatons Glider.Not a show bike but quite presentable

I love rescue bikes and this is an especially cool one. Good work! And...it does have a seal of quality!

gster 05-22-16 02:38 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 18787298)
Another Bitsa
A Bitsa is a British term for something (usually a motorbike) that's made from bits of this and bits of that....I had said I would tidy up a bike for a young woman that I work with.She picked up a CCM 3 Speed from me last week and wanted to give her old bike to her mother. It turned out to be an odd Swedish bike, a Crescent. I ended up getting the bike about 80% back together before I realized that the frame was badly bent.....https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0426.jpg?w=680A quick visit to George at Parts Unknown produced a very nice Ladies Norman bicycle circa 1960 (pre Raleigh). Anything useable was salvaged from the original bike and transfered, including the aluminum rims, stem and bars, basket, etc.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0427.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0428.jpg?w=680I was able to salvage some useful 3 Speed parts from the Norman and transfer to some other projects.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0432.jpg?w=680The bike is currently set up with a coaster brake back wheel and a single front caliper. The chain guard is from an Eatons Glider.Not a show bike but quite presentable

Question for someone:
The Norman above came with this SA coaster hub.
Do you put 3 speed oil in the oil port?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522933http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522934

gster 05-22-16 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18788272)
I love rescue bikes and this is an especially cool one. Good work! And...it does have a seal of quality!

Thank you!

Loose Chain 05-22-16 03:19 PM

Nice job, maybe paint the chain guard sliver to match the fenders? I do not think spending money on these bicycles is foolish or a waste. To buy something new, similar, which there really is not, one would be looking at around 600 plus dollars and it would have those stupid, ugly disc brakes. As Mr. Sheldon has pointed out, these bikes were meant to last decades and were designed and built in a time when things were built to be serviceable and repairable, not thrown away. It seems entirely reasonable to spend even several hundred or more dollars overhauling and making useful again a machine that may well last yet another 30 to 50 years.

I see no problem with new tires, rims, spokes, saddles and modern safety add ons (lights etc). Why not, one would likely have to purchase many of those same items for even a new bike and instead of having what are basically hand built bicycles you could instead be the proud owner of a machine built BSO!

The bigger challenge is finding parts to fit these dang little critters being as they are weird in the sizing of everything on them. Now, that can be a PITA. Like, why does not anybody make pump pegs anymore or strap-on water bottle cages?

Are y'all sure those 22 tooth rear cogs are not going to result in the gears being stripped out of those little AW coffee grinders back there? I noticed over the years including my recent visit to Germany and abouts that any place there were hills I observed that the IGH bikes, and pretty much all of the bikes laden with goods, were pushed up the hills and coasted down the hills and the gentle folks using them wore normal cloths only pedaling on the flats. Seems so oddly civilized!

And, I realize it is just me, but I am a disc brake free zone, sorry, I do not like them Sam I am, a new meaning for dorks discs.

BigChief 05-22-16 04:47 PM

oops

BigChief 05-22-16 04:56 PM

1 Attachment(s)
AW hubs are amazing things. Very over-engineered for human power. I'm at about 15 different hubs I've serviced over the years and I've never seen wear or damage to the gears. Even without bushings, the planet gears tend to be solid on their pins and the teeth look brand new. The only parts that I ever replaced were indicator pins, ball bearings and cones. I'm a total dinosaur, not going to change. The only thing I do for a bike ride is slip out of my work boots and put on sneakers. And I will never, ever, start a motorcycle ride by pushing a button.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522955

clubman 05-22-16 05:30 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18788591)
And I will never, ever, start a motorcycle ride by pushing a button.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=522955

Wait till you get your knee replaced and say that.

Nice Bonnie!

Velocivixen 05-22-16 07:38 PM

Question: I had to use new cotters (from Mark Stonich - Raleigh tapered ones) when I remounted the crankset on my Raleigh Twenty. I'm wondering if they're out of phase somehow. They are 180 degrees apart - when each pedal is forward the nut is facing up. When I pedal it sort of feels like the pedal axles are crooked. I just installed a different pair of raleigh pedals to see how they work.

Ideas? I didn't file the cotters and they do look like they could go in a bit further.
@gster - I would say "yes" to oil in the oil port.

BigChief 05-22-16 08:05 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18788939)
Question: I had to use new cotters (from Mark Stonich - Raleigh tapered ones) when I remounted the crankset on my Raleigh Twenty. I'm wondering if they're out of phase somehow. They are 180 degrees apart - when each pedal is forward the nut is facing up. When I pedal it sort of feels like the pedal axles are crooked. I just installed a different pair of raleigh pedals to see how they work.

Ideas? I didn't file the cotters and they do look like they could go in a bit further.
@gster - I would say "yes" to oil in the oil port.

I don't think it matters which way you install the cotters. I drop the cotter down with the pedal forward, but that's just habit. Bent crank arms can cause a wobble feeling in the pedal as it tips up then down as the crank rotates, but usually it's only one arm that's bent. If the new pedals feel the same, take a close look at the crank arms.

arex 05-22-16 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18788939)
Question: I had to use new cotters (from Mark Stonich - Raleigh tapered ones) when I remounted the crankset on my Raleigh Twenty. I'm wondering if they're out of phase somehow. They are 180 degrees apart - when each pedal is forward the nut is facing up. When I pedal it sort of feels like the pedal axles are crooked. I just installed a different pair of raleigh pedals to see how they work.

Ideas? I didn't file the cotters and they do look like they could go in a bit further.
@gster - I would say "yes" to oil in the oil port.

Greased the cotters? Do they look 180 visually?

Loose Chain 05-22-16 09:35 PM

Working now on a blue Denault for my niece. It is not a complete bike (mostly complete and not in bad shape) and the left crank (!) is bent inward which of course tore up the chain guard. I can fix the chain guard, not sure about the crank :(.

This is it, proably shown it before but I think it is coming up in the priority now.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s/DSCF0039.jpg

I do notice that while the frame itself is as nice as the Raleighs I have, instead of chrome plating many of the small parts are cad plated. The nuts are open, no nifty red "R" or I guess it would be a "D" instead. The steel rims are not the Raleigh pattern but have a simple convex crown. The fender stays are galvanized or cad plated wire, not the flat stays of my Raleighs. Interesting bike.

This bike may become a "Bitsa" though it will remain a Denault at heart, I hope.

Not sure what to do with this bent drive crank :/ . Hmmmmm.

On a positive note, the cotters came out easy. Of course, the pedals, oddly, no pedal wrench I have fits.

I usually do not split up a couple and have done a few pairs before but this interesting one came with the blue Denault and my home handi-man nearly fell over backwards for it and kept ogling it and drooling so I let him take it home with a pile of parts (he is a handi-man).

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s/DSCF0038.jpg

I borrowed this picture from the net. Thank you to whoever took it. This Denault seems more Raliegh-esque with the flat stays (but only one on the rear), chrome bits and even has pegs. Why is there so much variation. The blue bike is a 1969.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps736b1018.jpg

J

Velocivixen 05-22-16 09:44 PM

@arex - yes.


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