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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Gasbag 07-24-15 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 18011525)
good plan. I had planned to order a small pile of the sunlite black/black k103s due to them being so cheap.....for that same reason. Ive got at 57 robin hood im trying to get done. All i have left is to source good quality cotters and press them. Ive got 2 projects waiting for that process. I sure wish someone would step up and start making BBs that fit these old 3speeds properly with a square taper. Somthing sealed.....and simple. The SA rear hubs are an amazing design and the shear number of 3 speeds out there is unreal. All of them need a bit of TLC and they make great commuters and townies. Bullet proof really.

I kind of like the cottered cranks. I do have a small supply of used cotters that have saved the day a few times. When my supply runs out, I plan to use the soft cotters. I'll file and fit them, and then heat them red hot and oil quench them to harden them.That's some of the beauty of these vintage Brits, they encourage the old methods of repair skills and craftsmanship.

look566 rider 07-24-15 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by look566 rider (Post 17752392)
I admit! Shameless picture posting...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447451http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447452http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447453http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447454http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447455http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447456http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447457http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447458http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447459http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447460http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=447461

After two years, mostly procrastinating, Morley is ready for the road! As you can see original owner etched his name quite deeply in the one pic, plus a couple other locations.

Mostly original. Obviously new tubes & tires, originals had to be cut off from the wheels. New re-pop grips in the original style, thank you Taiwan Trading Co. One new cotter key for the crank, machined down to fit correctly. New brake pads, safety first! A re-died original Brooks saddle, not sure if the color is correct from new. Few miscellaneous nuts & bolts. Frame pump seems to work. I do need to locate the insert in the nipple end of the hose that allows the air into the tube.

Most work was done by yours truly. With hub, BB, headset cleaning & re-packing left to my LBS good guy Mason of Westerville Bike Shop. Shameless local business plug intended. And I just don't have the correct spanners to do this work yet.

Paint was brought back to life with Meguiers's Pro Line auto paint products. Chrome was basic elbow grease, chrome polish, SS pads and brass brushes. All else was scrubbed clean of 30+ years of oily dust. There has been no paint touch up or anything else. Rust and corrosion will be held in check.

Bike has been ridden several times. I have no reference for what she should ride like, but she is a hoot to be on. Needs some fine tuning for the 3 speed shifting. Rear brake cable is stretched beyond use, but I have a hack in place with a fix ready.

Much to my surprise the dynometer lights work! Bulbs look to be original. I did find a replacement lens for the rear light at Memory Lane in Grand Rapids, Ohio. Original lens was bleached a pale pinkish-yellow.

If there is any advice on placement of clamps etc., I welcome the feedback.

Cheers,

Update.

Took the bike to the son of the previous owner of Morley. He was very pleased and amazed with the bike. He also had located a saddle bag with tools, old pedals and a original Raleigh owners manual!

Was great to the smile on his face!

noglider 07-24-15 11:43 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18011071)
Sorry. I know about that thread, but I didn't think it was too off-base (or off topic) in posting it here.

I wasn't saying you did anything wrong. I'm saying you found something wonderfully absurd.

Slash5 07-25-15 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18011608)
I'll file and fit them, and then heat them red hot and oil quench them to harden them.

That won't work on cotters - you need carbon steel to harden. You would need to use case hardening compound to harden the exterior of the soft steel.
I've read that cotters are soft so that they deform to the hard spindle rather than the other way around.

BigChief 07-25-15 10:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
All done. Seems to work perfectly. All 4 positions ( H N L B )engage smoothly.The newer SA shifter cable end, with the crimps,
is larger in diameter than the original, plain cable end that came on this one. The cable ferrule threads are the same, so I don't
have to make up a whole new cable. I figure I can carefully reshape the end of a newer cable with the bench grinder
until it fits. The rivets didn't come out so easily on this one.The case dimpled inward from driving the trigger rivet out.
I did have a piece of steel bar stock that fit the inside walls of the case perfectly. I used it as an anvil to square up
the case from the damage it had and the dimple I made driving out the rivet. That turned out to be an essential tool
for this project. I got it together by inserting and driving home the rivet in the spring loaded swing arm first. I then
manipulated the trigger and cam with a small screwdriver until the holes lined up with the case. There was enough friction
that the rivet stayed in place while I drove it in without having to hold the screwdriver. I was wondering how
I was going to do that without 3 hands. Guess I was lucky there. So, one early 50s SA trigger rescued.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466818

exdraghunt 07-25-15 10:57 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Figured I'd add my vintage 3-speed to the thread. I ride a Hercules King with a 3-speed B type 2 Hercules hub (and her-cu-matic shifter). Bike is late 40's-early 50's, near as I can tell, and is from before Raleigh bought out Hercules. (if anyone has more info on the model, I'd love to know. I've been researching, but can't seem to find any mention of a "King" model put out by Hercules)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466819http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466820http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466821http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466822http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466823

On another note, does anyone know where one could get a new rear reflector housing? The rubber on mine is completely shot. I need to get the lens out so I can remount the reflector (both screws holding it on have come loose, and they're driven into the fender from inside the reflector), but doing so would probably destroy the old rubber housing.

Gasbag 07-25-15 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by exdraghunt (Post 18012701)
Figured I'd add my vintage 3-speed to the thread. I ride a Hercules King with a 3-speed B type 2 Hercules hub (and her-cu-matic shifter). Bike is late 40's-early 50's, near as I can tell, and is from before Raleigh bought out Hercules. (if anyone has more info on the model, I'd love to know. I've been researching, but can't seem to find any mention of a "King" model put out by Hercules)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466819http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466820http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466821http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466822http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466823

On another note, does anyone know where one could get a new rear reflector housing? The rubber on mine is completely shot. I need to get the lens out so I can remount the reflector (both screws holding it on have come loose, and they're driven into the fender from inside the reflector), but doing so would probably destroy the old rubber housing.


I can't help with any information about your Hercules but I might be able to help with the reflector: Spares and Accessories for Roadster Bicycles Raleigh Tourist 28" 635mm at Yellow Jersey Westwood Rims is another keyword Rod brakes British spares.

BigChief 07-25-15 11:48 AM

What a cool bike. I love it. Yes, preserving that reflector is a must. If a new housing that fits the lens just can't be found, it would be possible to machine a whole new body out of aluminum and paint it black. A lot of work for a reflector maybe, but that one is especially nice.

scale 07-25-15 03:27 PM

I have a SA trigger shifter that works fine in 2 and 3. It wont go into one. 2 and 3 work fine and i can see where the pawl or "catch" is when i pull the trigger back to the 1 position and it is clearing the metal holder but the spring doesnt push down on the holder. Is there a way to adjust this spring to push down farther? Its probably just worn from age IF i use a small screw driver and push the metal holder its fine but as soon as i come out of first again it wont go back in. The spring is weak in the #1 spot and not pushing or engaging at all.

Hopefully this description makes sene. I am wondering if i bend the spring a bit to allow it to give more tension. I dont see any possible way to get the trigger shifter apart. Its press fit together.

3speedslow 07-25-15 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by exdraghunt (Post 18012701)
Figured I'd add my vintage 3-speed to the thread. I ride a Hercules King with a 3-speed B type 2 Hercules hub (and her-cu-matic shifter). Bike is late 40's-early 50's, near as I can tell, and is from before Raleigh bought out Hercules. (if anyone has more info on the model, I'd love to know. I've been researching, but can't seem to find any mention of a "King" model put out by Hercules)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466819http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466820http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466821http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466822http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=466823

On another note, does anyone know where one could get a new rear reflector housing? The rubber on mine is completely shot. I need to get the lens out so I can remount the reflector (both screws holding it on have come loose, and they're driven into the fender from inside the reflector), but doing so would probably destroy the old rubber housing.

What is the diameter of the reflector. I have a Raleigh rubber housing that you can have if it fits. It is white though.

let me know.

BigChief 07-25-15 03:47 PM

Hav

BigChief 07-25-15 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 18013175)
I have a SA trigger shifter that works fine in 2 and 3. It wont go into one. 2 and 3 work fine and i can see where the pawl or "catch" is when i pull the trigger back to the 1 position and it is clearing the metal holder but the spring doesnt push down on the holder. Is there a way to adjust this spring to push down farther? Its probably just worn from age IF i use a small screw driver and push the metal holder its fine but as soon as i come out of first again it wont go back in. The spring is weak in the #1 spot and not pushing or engaging at all.

Hopefully this description makes sene. I am wondering if i bend the spring a bit to allow it to give more tension. I dont see any possible way to get the trigger shifter apart. Its press fit together.

Have you tried more slack on the cable? Might also be a stuck link on the indicator chain.

scale 07-25-15 04:30 PM

yup....it pulls way past the first gear pawl/catch on the shifter but the little spring thing that pushes against the block that is supposed to push down the block to catch on the pawl isnt pushing down because there isnt enough sprint tension. Its all in the trigger shifter. It should shift gears 1-3 with nothing hooked up....just some slight pull back tension. It wont catch at gear number 1.

dweenk 07-25-15 04:42 PM

scale - most of my problems with SA 3 speed hubs are that I can get 1 and 3 just fine with the initial cable tension adjustment. After that is done, shifting from 3 down to "N", or 1 up to "N" may fail. Both up and down shifts never fail, but often one direction does.

First go for the high and low, I've always found that a little work with the barrel adjuster will bring "N" into line.

Gasbag 07-25-15 04:58 PM

The trigger might only need a cleaning and lube. I have an ultrasonic tank and it is amazing how much dirt comes out of triggers when I clean them. After cleaning I use a needle oiler with Tri-Flow to sparingly get things slicked up again. The triggers are always much improved after this process.

scale 07-25-15 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18013360)
The trigger might only need a cleaning and lube. I have an ultrasonic tank and it is amazing how much dirt comes out of triggers when I clean them. After cleaning I use a needle oiler with Tri-Flow to sparingly get things slicked up again. The triggers are always much improved after this process.

This might be it. I flushed and worked it real good using pb and parts cleaner. It doesnt feel tight at all. It pulls great....its just the last click down to 1 doesnt work. IF i pull into 1 and then push my finger over the spring it puts weight on the thing that catches the tooth on the shifter for 1st gear. IM pretty sure that little flapper thing in there is fine but the spring that pushes it down is weak. 2nd and 3rd are not a problem because the cam that runs it pushes the teeth out farther for these gears where the spring still has plenty of tension.

scale 07-25-15 05:58 PM

another topic. I have a 57 red robin hood and the forks look bent in a bit. Has anyone ran these forks as a replacement on a 3 speed?

Sunlite 26x1-3/8, 1" Threaded Fork - Modern Bike

Im almost certain ill never find another set of red forks for a robin hood and black would look weird. Chrome probably would as well but maybe less so.

BigChief 07-25-15 07:59 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 18013465)
This might be it. I flushed and worked it real good using pb and parts cleaner. It doesnt feel tight at all. It pulls great....its just the last click down to 1 doesnt work. IF i pull into 1 and then push my finger over the spring it puts weight on the thing that catches the tooth on the shifter for 1st gear. IM pretty sure that little flapper thing in there is fine but the spring that pushes it down is weak. 2nd and 3rd are not a problem because the cam that runs it pushes the teeth out farther for these gears where the spring still has plenty of tension.

Well, you could take it apart and re-tension or replace the spring. I just had one apart. It wasn't too difficult. I was thinking about replacing the leaf spring, but the original seems to work fine. What I would have done was mic the thickness and width, averaged them and found a wire spring of that diameter. Then I would have straightened out a length of wire and hammered it flat on an anvil, trim up the edges on the grinder and form it using the original as a template. I know, I'm crazy. I just love mechanical puzzles.

scale 07-25-15 08:42 PM

how do you get the trigger apart? I could probably fix this thing quick if i new how to pull it apart.

BigChief 07-26-15 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 18013865)
how do you get the trigger apart? I could probably fix this thing quick if i new how to pull it apart.

We've been talking about this on the last few pages of this thread. I've only reconditioned a trigger once and it was an older window style shifter. What it amounts to is the rivets that hold the assembly together aren't really rivets. They're pins that were center punched on the back. So you can drive them out and get the trigger apart. Getting it back together is tricky, but it can be done.

exdraghunt 07-26-15 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18013194)
What is the diameter of the reflector. I have a Raleigh rubber housing that you can have if it fits. It is white though.

let me know.

My reflector housing is 2" in diameter (outside edge of the housing)

That would be so awesome, thanks for the offer. I think white would look alright, match the white fender splash.

rubah 07-26-15 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17911723)
You've got plenty of room to move the chain back. Try that first. It could be a cotter, too.

My Sports made an unusual clicking sound when I was pedaling hard. I thought it was a pedal, but changing them out didn't solve it. Finally, I checked the cranks in just the right position. I had to snug up the bottom bracket a bit.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17911903)
Not sure about the slipping, but worn out bearings in the pedals can cause a clicking sound. 1x per revolution sounds a lot like pedal bearings to me.

I overhauled the pedals with new bearings and grease and moved the wheel back in the slots, and the slipping seems to have been resolved :) not sure which of those did more good, but it was fun to tear into the pedals.

My next project might be to replace the bearings/lube in the crank, if I can muster up the courage to smite those cotters. Is it advised that I find replacement cotters in case things go haywire?

noglider 07-26-15 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by rubah (Post 18015116)
I overhauled the pedals with new bearings and grease and moved the wheel back in the slots, and the slipping seems to have been resolved :) not sure which of those did more good, but it was fun to tear into the pedals.

My next project might be to replace the bearings/lube in the crank, if I can muster up the courage to smite those cotters. Is it advised that I find replacement cotters in case things go haywire?

Yes. You might not ruin them, but you also might.

BigChief 07-26-15 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by rubah (Post 18015116)

My next project might be to replace the bearings/lube in the crank, if I can muster up the courage to smite those cotters. Is it advised that I find replacement cotters in case things go haywire?

I stopped drifting cotters out. Never wrecked one pressing them out. At first, I used a makeshift press. A small clamp on bench vise and a socket.
I finally broke down and bought an official cotter pin press.

3speedslow 07-26-15 08:24 PM


Originally Posted by exdraghunt (Post 18014982)
My reflector housing is 2" in diameter (outside edge of the housing)

That would be so awesome, thanks for the offer. I think white would look alright, match the white fender splash.

Okay, I will put the tape measure on it tomorrow and check size. Glad to help out if I can.


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