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-   -   Training Status??? (IV) (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1021397)

Hermes 04-07-20 03:18 PM

Coaches’ greatest hits workout combining a couple of ideas all on the stupid trainer. Warmup then, 3x(10 min, 30on/30off) 8’ RBI and then 20’ of medium tempo. Holy Moly, the first set of 30/30 were really ugly. It was not until the 2 set that I started to hit real VO2/ANO2 power. I killed the 3rd set. The 20’ of tempo was cake.

And I got a low Battery on my SRM.:banned:

gsteinb 04-07-20 05:06 PM

20 minute test
Yoga
Hike

something like 4 1/2 hours, all in. Not a bad day at the office.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ceaa2bb8.jpeg

furiousferret 04-07-20 05:18 PM

I was gazzed yesterday from lack of sleep. Feel pretty good today so I'm going to have a go. This whole not knowing when we're going to race thing is starting to wear on me, but I think I'm going to a Sweet Spot Base plan again.

Also my wife has turned into an 80 year old Italian lady since she started working from home. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 calories of baked desserts in the kitchen. Not good for my w/kg.

gsteinb 04-07-20 05:27 PM

Samesies

I think the chance of racing this year are pretty slim, so during a pandemic desserts have no calories.

big john 04-07-20 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 21406107)
. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 calories of baked desserts in the kitchen. Not good for my w/kg.

Probably best to eat it all at once to get rid of it.

gsteinb 04-07-20 05:36 PM

I've tried that. It comes back.

hubcyclist 04-07-20 06:06 PM

Followed up my workout this afternoon with a 10mile ride with my son on the closest nice trail (minuteman bikeway). Yesterday was new bike day for him, we got him a felt 24 road bike (used) and hes loving it. Hes not quite down with riding on the hoods yet but its not a big deal because he can ride as single speed and has the brakes on the tops as well.

Cypress 04-07-20 09:25 PM

Decided to freestyle my ride instead of 4x12. Overshot the planned TSS by 75, but what can you do.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8084870c2a.png

burnthesheep 04-08-20 06:34 AM

I see all sorts of weird stuff being done on TR and with other "canned" workouts folks do that I follow.

I'm dipping back into higher power stuff, so was cruising what other folks are doing. One guy on out team had recently done some kind of TR workout that looked similar to 1:1 but was 1.5:1.

I thought the theory here was to inject a lot of lactic and get the HR up pretty fast. Then, once up, the ratio pretty much hold the HR up high since you can't recover but the recovery is just enough to be able to do enough work to inject a lot more lactic in the system again on the next rep.

3min like I've traditionally done seems to me to be a lot more aerobic contribution than the shorter efforts. But, for VO2 I sill hear about how 3 on 3 off being "the deal".

What would some kind of "tweener" workout like 1.5 on 1 off? I may just ask what the description of the workout is telling him. I'm always looking for "new" ways to do that work as doing the same exact stuff over and over gets boring.

May just eat it and do a 20 or 30min Crit City race to get some VO2 stimulus, lol. And get my rear end handed to me!

kensuf 04-08-20 06:48 AM

90 minutes with a 20 minute interval on Monday. 90 minutes of Z2/Z3 yesterday. Planning something today, then tomorrow off.

Ttoc6 04-08-20 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by burnthesheep (Post 21406903)
I see all sorts of weird stuff being done on TR and with other "canned" workouts folks do that I follow.

I'm dipping back into higher power stuff, so was cruising what other folks are doing. One guy on out team had recently done some kind of TR workout that looked similar to 1:1 but was 1.5:1.

I thought the theory here was to inject a lot of lactic and get the HR up pretty fast. Then, once up, the ratio pretty much hold the HR up high since you can't recover but the recovery is just enough to be able to do enough work to inject a lot more lactic in the system again on the next rep.

3min like I've traditionally done seems to me to be a lot more aerobic contribution than the shorter efforts. But, for VO2 I sill hear about how 3 on 3 off being "the deal".

What would some kind of "tweener" workout like 1.5 on 1 off? I may just ask what the description of the workout is telling him. I'm always looking for "new" ways to do that work as doing the same exact stuff over and over gets boring.

May just eat it and do a 20 or 30min Crit City race to get some VO2 stimulus, lol. And get my rear end handed to me!

Here's an example in the crit plan from Trainer road.. High intensity, short rest. Long rest between sets

Tamarack is 3 sets of 3x3-minute 'Attack and Recover' intervals with very short, 1-minute recoveries between intervals and 4-minute recoveries between sets.This workout was formerly known as Abott.

This workout targets improvements in Anaerobic capacity by increasing times to exhaustion at levels well above FTP and even above VO2max power. Performing them on the heels of muscularly taxing Threshold efforts furthers the challenge for riders coming into race-level fitness.The benefits of training at intensities this high are plentiful and wide-ranging. From improved lactate processing capabilities/acidic tolerance to greater levels of muscle fiber recruitment and increased fiber size all equating to greater work capacity - painful but productive.The intensity and repetition make these efforts especially useful for mountain bikers, cyclocross racers, road racers and criterium riders.Cadence during the Threshold portions of each interval should stay above 90rpm and then jump to 100rpm or higher during the supra-threshold 'attacks' even exceeding 120rpm during the very brief, 15-second sprints that conclude each set of intervals.

burnthesheep 04-08-20 10:07 AM

The other thing I always struggle with on "intensity" weeks is the off time or easy ride time. I'm already a lower volume racer/rider. I don't get 10hrs a week like a lot of these guys. To them, going down to 5 in a week to do intensity a couple days and ride easy a couple days is great. Works fine.

For me, it would mean going from 7hrs per week to a pretty low TSS. IMHO.

So, I have a bad habit of chasing a KOM or two on those non-structured rides on intensity weeks. I know you need the ability built up to do the work on the structured workouts, just trying to gauge my body as what I can do.

Also, it's not quite as fun knowing I'm not supposed to "give it the gas" on a ride. Is giving it the gas just a "little" bit on those intensity week free rides OK? Like, don't go all out for a 3 or 5min KOM twice. But, like hit it hard like 30 seconds once? Ride tempo for an hour?

A normal week for me is around 400 to 450 TSS. By definition, an intensity week might only be 250 TSS. That's a pretty solid drop in TSS and will bring down CTL a bit.

Is that the point of "periodizing"? Build up some solid CTL (for you), then back off so you can hit new numbers (or just different numbers) during the lower volume? Then raise the CTL back again?

Arghhhhh. It's hard to decide what to do with no races and so many local KOM's I could go out tomorrow and steal. It's hard to keep some discipline/focus.

It doesn't help though that I live in a really hilly part of town. The greenway is crowded AF, so no go there. Meaning, with a 53/39 I'm going to have to put out some power on my free rides.

Ttoc6 04-08-20 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by burnthesheep (Post 21407316)
The other thing I always struggle with on "intensity" weeks is the off time or easy ride time. I'm already a lower volume racer/rider. I don't get 10hrs a week like a lot of these guys. To them, going down to 5 in a week to do intensity a couple days and ride easy a couple days is great. Works fine.

For me, it would mean going from 7hrs per week to a pretty low TSS. IMHO.

So, I have a bad habit of chasing a KOM or two on those non-structured rides on intensity weeks. I know you need the ability built up to do the work on the structured workouts, just trying to gauge my body as what I can do.

Also, it's not quite as fun knowing I'm not supposed to "give it the gas" on a ride. Is giving it the gas just a "little" bit on those intensity week free rides OK? Like, don't go all out for a 3 or 5min KOM twice. But, like hit it hard like 30 seconds once? Ride tempo for an hour?

A normal week for me is around 400 to 450 TSS. By definition, an intensity week might only be 250 TSS. That's a pretty solid drop in TSS and will bring down CTL a bit.

Is that the point of "periodizing"? Build up some solid CTL (for you), then back off so you can hit new numbers (or just different numbers) during the lower volume? Then raise the CTL back again?

Arghhhhh. It's hard to decide what to do with no races and so many local KOM's I could go out tomorrow and steal. It's hard to keep some discipline/focus.

It doesn't help though that I live in a really hilly part of town. The greenway is crowded AF, so no go there. Meaning, with a 53/39 I'm going to have to put out some power on my free rides.

This all really depends on what training method you most subscribe too. Truly polarized training would say if you're doing anything in the "in between zone" it's all but useless. Periodized training is nothing more than the progression an athlete follows to get to a peak. School of thought USED to be (and still is for some of us) that you build a pyramid. Can't do the shorter stuff til you have the longer stuff underneath you. Macro and Meso cycles. Polarized kinda turns some of those ideas on their head. My personal training kinda goes back to a polarized method regardless of what i do. my body can only go hard for so long without breaking down. Check these slides from the UCI (https://slideplayer.com/slide/12950614/)



Just have fun is my goal until everything works itself out and I can put a date on my calendar. I couldn't sleep last night. Woke up at 1 AM and just laid there. So i got up to go look at the moon before i had to clock into work. Rode ~1.15 up into the hills. Not another soul out there.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b2abf20ba.jpg

burnthesheep 04-08-20 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by Ttoc6 (Post 21407411)
This all really depends on what training method you most subscribe too. Truly polarized training would say if you're doing anything in the "in between zone" it's all but useless. Periodized training is nothing more than the progression an athlete follows to get to a peak. School of thought USED to be (and still is for some of us) that you build a pyramid. Can't do the shorter stuff til you have the longer stuff underneath you. Macro and Meso cycles. Polarized kinda turns some of those ideas on their head. My personal training kinda goes back to a polarized method regardless of what i do. my body can only go hard for so long without breaking down. Check these slides from the UCI (https://slideplayer.com/slide/12950614/)



Just have fun is my goal until everything works itself out and I can put a date on my calendar. I couldn't sleep last night. Woke up at 1 AM and just laid there. So i got up to go look at the moon before i had to clock into work. Rode ~1.15 up into the hills. Not another soul out there.

Yes! That's it. Have fun. I mean, if nothing is technically on the schedule, all I need to do is keep a good balance.

Ttoc6 04-08-20 11:07 AM

There ya go man. Ask yourself why you do any of this in the first place. Competition and fun don't have to be exclusive. Just not much competition going on right now.

Remember, bike racing is nothing more than angry dudes playing church league softball.

burnthesheep 04-08-20 12:56 PM

And....I had fun.

I kept it low low Z2 and upper Z1 to and from a cheapo KOM try. Like, only 100 people have ever done it. But, did alright. Had to do it twice, grandma was going way too slow the first try and had to abort after already blowing my 2/3 of my wattage load.

It wasn't "sketch" at all. Trying to keep it fairly safe right now. Could tell it was hotter outside already, about 87. Managed only like 540w for the minute tries. Usually I can do around 600. I soft pedaled the little easy corner to stay safe, that was probably the power loss.

It's tough for me to grab those minute or so KOM's in town as I'm 70kg and lots of those are held by 75+ kg dudes with cannons. Some near 80kg and still not much fat on em.

procrit 04-08-20 06:37 PM

I was going to take today off and do my first FTP test in almost a decade tomorrow, but decided to do it today since it's going to rain. I forgot how much they hurt! I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out though.

So what's the best option for getting back into shape after a long break? A bunch of Z2/Z3 work with some SST? I only have about 6-7 hours a week.

big john 04-08-20 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 21408252)
I was going to take today off and do my first FTP test in almost a decade tomorrow, but decided to do it today since it's going to rain. I forgot how much they hurt! I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out though.

So don't keep us in suspense.

procrit 04-08-20 10:07 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 21408477)
So don't keep us in suspense.

322w / 4.1 w/kg. I know just dropping weight will improve that to 4.6-4.7 or so, then I just need to crank up the watts.

big john 04-08-20 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 21408502)
322w / 4.1 w/kg. I know just dropping weight will improve that to 4.6-4.7 or so, then I just need to crank up the watts.

Awesome. I was just kidding, you know?

gsteinb 04-09-20 03:49 AM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 21405895)
And I got a low Battery on my SRM.:banned:

How low is low? I assume they're shut down too.

I have a spare bike with SRM that I rarely use. I guess I've had it all this time for the coming pandemic!

topflightpro 04-09-20 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 21408646)
How low is low? I assume they're shut down too.

I have a spare bike with SRM that I rarely use. I guess I've had it all this time for the coming pandemic!

Surprisingly, they are not shut down. I called a couple weeks ago, because I also assumed they might be, but they were open, and I sent in my track crank for battery replacement. But they did warn they are working with a skeleton crew, so things may take longer than normal. Since racing is on hold, I figured now is as good a time as any to get the battery replaced. I'd been getting the low warning for a few months and had been putting it off because I don't have multiple track cranks and was using it regularly.

Hermes 04-09-20 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 21408646)
How low is low? I assume they're shut down too.

I have a spare bike with SRM that I rarely use. I guess I've had it all this time for the coming pandemic!

I do not have a SRM PC 7 or 8. My Garmin 820 gave me a power meter low battery indication. Also, the zero offset calibration seems to be less stable even with constant temperature. In the past, this indicated low battery and is good for some period of time. Usage from the last time the battery was changed is about right.

burnthesheep 04-09-20 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 21408502)
322w / 4.1 w/kg. I know just dropping weight will improve that to 4.6-4.7 or so, then I just need to crank up the watts.

I'm desperately fearful of my next one. I know a new PR is possible for sure, but the cave for 20min (that's what I use) is just deep. And in the house versus the gym my fan is OK and best I can do, but sub-optimal for efforts like that. I always feel some people can do 10w more but just can't or don't want to dig that much for a number.

I almost would rather just use the Volcano KOM and work off of an 8-ish minute effort. I know myself enough to know how the % and curve works out. There's still a huge aerobic contribution at 8min and 20min. Or the Zwift ramp test. The Volcano KOM for me is shorter than 8min, but close enough. This is the short climb in Watopia.

Cypress 04-09-20 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by burnthesheep (Post 21408944)
I'm desperately fearful of my next one. I know a new PR is possible for sure, but the cave for 20min (that's what I use) is just deep. And in the house versus the gym my fan is OK and best I can do, but sub-optimal for efforts like that. I always feel some people can do 10w more but just can't or don't want to dig that much for a number.

I almost would rather just use the Volcano KOM and work off of an 8-ish minute effort. I know myself enough to know how the % and curve works out. There's still a huge aerobic contribution at 8min and 20min. Or the Zwift ramp test. The Volcano KOM for me is shorter than 8min, but close enough. This is the short climb in Watopia.

The Epic KOM in Watopia on the castle side (without the Jungle turnoff) is nearly dead-nuts 20-mins for me. It also has some landmarks that indicate when to start stepping up for the finish (unless you're one of those maniacs that holds even pacing).


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