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-   -   Training Status??? (IV) (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1021397)

procrit 09-03-22 08:48 AM

Weights and zone 1 elliptical yesterday, 3 hour zone 2 ride today with a quick 10 min ftp-ish effort at the end. Legs a little tired from the week but surprisingly felt better and better as the ride went on, and feeling great after.

TMonk 09-03-22 11:30 AM

Killer update Hermes, and congrats on the WR for your wife!!! Big news.

3 hrs for me today, first hour inside with the B paced bot on Zwift, last two with a local group ride. I took my TT bike out today and played delivery service on the long open sections leading to the sprints and climbs. Hot AF for San Diego so I tried to be wrapped up by 10. Heat wave!

In other news, my high Sierras mountaineering trip has been postponed till late September, due to an injury, and a death in the family for two out of our party of four. Looks like my strength work, hiking and loaded backpack stair workouts will go on for a few more weeks. Gonna be cold up there at night.

procrit 09-11-22 01:27 PM

520 TSS this week and feeling very good, which is crazy considering a month ago 400-500 TSS felt pretty tough. Iím sure my FTP is up some and I havenít adjusted in TP yet so maybe thatís part of it, but Iím just seemingly recovering better and faster with much less fatigue build up. I think Iím going to adjust some of my upcoming workouts to account for the volume I *think* I can safely handleÖ

Also, has anyone noticed a decrease in RHR and increase in HRV despite a good amount of training volume? Trying to figure out what this means exactly. The red was my ďrest weekĒ and when I got sick for a few days. It hasnít been a sudden jump or anything, just a slow and steady change.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0950c0cb5b.png


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9eda760320.png

Hermes 09-12-22 08:28 AM

In general, my RHR / HRV behaves as I expect. Training volume / intensity increase RHR and decrease HRV.

procrit 09-12-22 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 22644311)
In general, my RHR / HRV behaves as I expect. Training volume / intensity increase RHR and decrease HRV.

Well, I'll add a bit more load this week and see how it goes, and hope that all the trend data is actually correct. I don't feel over trained or even that far overreached... maybe it's right!

procrit 09-13-22 10:15 AM

First 2x20 I've done since 2020. First interval ended up about 5 watts over my target. On the second I started at my target and ramped 10 watts every few minutes until I was 40 watts over my target and held that the last five minutes. It's safe to say all of the effects from my covid infection Jan 2021 are in fact gone and my knee is healed up enough from the motocross wreck to not be a bother. I couldn't ask for anything more...

TMonk 09-13-22 08:16 PM

Good stuff procrit, hopefully you have some more months of fitness gains ahead of you!

furiousferret 09-13-22 08:47 PM

Still on the sidelines. I think my stomach is getting better though, but its still there. So Monday I'm going to give it a shot.

I'm up 12 pounds, which really means I'm at a good weight. I was probably at 8% bodyfat in June, and now probably 18%-20%. The good thing is I've changed my diet to be more efficient, because I can't cycle my way out of a bad meal.

procrit 09-14-22 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 22646427)
Still on the sidelines. I think my stomach is getting better though, but its still there. So Monday I'm going to give it a shot.

I'm up 12 pounds, which really means I'm at a good weight. I was probably at 8% bodyfat in June, and now probably 18%-20%. The good thing is I've changed my diet to be more efficient, because I can't cycle my way out of a bad meal.

Is this still Covid related issues?

TMonk 09-14-22 06:52 AM

Double Zwift race day yesterday. 4-lap / ~50 minute Innsbruking A/B combined race in the AM, 1-lap / ~25 minute Sand and Sequoias race after work, A-only.

In the first, I got separated from the lead group of 7 (later became 5) after the first "leg-snapper" 1 minute climb. I think I averaged around 7.5 w/kg for each (of four) 1 min climb, first and last a bit harder. I tried to get us to organize a chase but the leading group was just too strong and my off season form simply wasn't good enough to be up there. Didn't feel like sprinting, so I rolled in the back for 14th (I think) of 44 total starters in the A/B group.

Second race was somewhat interesting, some larger diesel-type dude was holding 4.5 - 5.0 w/kg like the whole time. We dropped him at the start and after each climb, but he would always motor back up. I thought we would be donezo after the ~4 minute titans climb where we did like ~5.5, but he still managed to get back up right before the sprint. I totally had the sprint as well but sat up and coasted too early and got pipped at the line. Damn.

Was pretty tired last night after all that nonsense.

Hermes 09-14-22 09:18 AM

In final prep for the masters world track championships in LA starting next week. Workout last night at VSC with coach and our training group. Warmup on the rollers and then a motor warmup. The warmup speed is now gonzo fast. Everyone is jacked and peaking for racing.

After warmup, 2x flying 4 lap accelerations and then 3x flying 4 lap timed efforts at pursuit pace. Then a 3 lap from a standing start. Back on Thursday for another session.

In the gym, I like the new ergonomic Olympic bar. It is far superior for back squats compared to a standard bar - comfort, control and I have better form. And, most importantly, I like doing them.

procrit 09-14-22 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 22646860)
In final prep for the masters world track championships in LA starting next week. Workout last night at VSC with coach and our training group. Warmup on the rollers and then a motor warmup. The warmup speed is now gonzo fast. Everyone is jacked and peaking for racing.

After warmup, 2x flying 4 lap accelerations and then 3x flying 4 lap timed efforts at pursuit pace. Then a 3 lap from a standing start. Back on Thursday for another session.

In the gym, I like the new ergonomic Olympic bar. It is far superior for back squats compared to a standard bar - comfort, control and I have better form. And, most importantly, I like doing them.

So. How many watts do you make for say 10Ē or 1í, whatever common metrics might be for that? Iíve generally been curious what it takes to be a good track rider.

furiousferret 09-14-22 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 22646629)
Is this still Covid related issues?

Something in my gut, happened right after COVID so I think so but the doctors really aren't putting much effort into it.

procrit 09-15-22 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 22647472)
Something in my gut, happened right after COVID so I think so but the doctors really aren't putting much effort into it.

That's not good. Some doctors seem to care less about healthy fit people than the average person that eats terribly, sleeps terribly, drinks, etc. Those people have easy treatable symptoms that can be linked to lifestyle issues. Ah, high bp, here's a pill. When a cyclist walks in that lives a healthy lifestyle and otherwise is in good shape, it's like they don't know what to do sometimes. Hope you get it taken care of...

Hermes 09-15-22 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 22647049)
So. How many watts do you make for say 10” or 1’, whatever common metrics might be for that? I’ve generally been curious what it takes to be a good track rider.

I know my power numbers but I am always suspicious of transient power reading due to poor power meter accuracy and slow head unit recording. SRM makes a track unit and the PC8 can record in 1/8 second intervals. I do not have one. I do not know other trackies power numbers.

The gang I train with are some of the best with most being WCs, NCs, Pros, Junior nationals and WR holders. I am always amazed at the speed we achieve at the track. Our coach organizes the workouts based upon ones ability to generate speed and by lap times.

What has been true at the track is that most crit racers who achieve 1/2 status do well at the track in mass start races and much of the track beginner training sessions are waived.

Riding fixed gear no brakes is very neuromuscular and there are rapid changes in power requirements at a track such as Velo Sports Center. Of course there are rapid changes in power in crits but one does have the option to change gears to make adjustments. New trackies may struggle with gear selections for months trying to adjust and figure out what works. Generally, that means that leg strength is of value when track racing.

And there are many event / races to choose from at the track from time trials to match sprints and many different races in between.

IMO, the best way is to try going to the track and sign up for their beginner training sessions and see how it goes.

procrit 09-16-22 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 22648006)
I know my power numbers but I am always suspicious of transient power reading due to poor power meter accuracy and slow head unit recording. SRM makes a track unit and the PC8 can record in 1/8 second intervals. I do not have one. I do not know other trackies power numbers.

The gang I train with are some of the best with most being WCs, NCs, Pros, Junior nationals and WR holders. I am always amazed at the speed we achieve at the track. Our coach organizes the workouts based upon ones ability to generate speed and by lap times.

What has been true at the track is that most crit racers who achieve 1/2 status do well at the track in mass start races and much of the track beginner training sessions are waived.

Riding fixed gear no brakes is very neuromuscular and there are rapid changes in power requirements at a track such as Velo Sports Center. Of course there are rapid changes in power in crits but one does have the option to change gears to make adjustments. New trackies may struggle with gear selections for months trying to adjust and figure out what works. Generally, that means that leg strength is of value when track racing.

And there are many event / races to choose from at the track from time trials to match sprints and many different races in between.

IMO, the best way is to try going to the track and sign up for their beginner training sessions and see how it goes.

I've had plenty of chances to ride the track, I just never went. My college roommate won a national championship when we were still living together and riding, and I never went with him. I should probably do it before I get *too* old ha.

procrit 09-17-22 10:58 AM

Two hour fasted ride and wow do I feel awful now haha. I know itís good for fat adaption but I donít know that I want to feel like this on a Saturday.

TMonk 09-20-22 07:49 AM

Long weekend in Bellngham, Wa for a wedding. Lots of food and booze so I won't be too surprised if I see 150# on the scale (haven't checked yet, will do b4 my zwift ride). I did at least rent a MTB while I was there and ride it for 2 hrs on Saturday at Galbraith MTB park. That was a total blast and it is a proper "spaghetti bowl" of trails up there, with something for everyone.

1 hr of Zwift today and Th bookended around a slightly longer one tomorrow. Not much time for more as I have family in town, and I'm preparing for my Sierras mountaineering/backpack trip on Th - M. Excited to dust off this ice axe and use these crampons!

October has a few MTB events (two 50+ miles races) so that will bring an unstructured intro to more TSS, before base training starts formally in November. My weight is the same, but my legs are smaller and there is more pinchable fat in my midsection. Ready to start riding more haha.

procrit 09-21-22 09:34 AM

Has anyone experimented with doing low-mid zone 2 vs riding the edge of the top of zone 2? Curious what sort of differences you guys experienced in terms of fatigue, fitness, ability to do volume, etc.

TMonk 09-21-22 09:54 AM

Most of my z2 rides are low-mid. I don't spend a ton of time in high z2/z3 TBH. Riding above that zone is either done in intervals or races.

Sometimes, my z2 rides will end up at the higher end, but that is only if I'm feeling particularly spritely.

Hermes 09-21-22 12:57 PM

I like to ride at VT1 or just before lactate begins to form or right at the top of z2. The reason is that my endurance work is 90 to 120 minutes. I just seem to end up there. Lower power seems too easy or unproductive. Of course, if I were riding 4 hours or more, i would probably have a different take.

procrit 09-21-22 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 22655141)
I like to ride at VT1 or just before lactate begins to form or right at the top of z2. The reason is that my endurance work is 90 to 120 minutes. I just seem to end up there. Lower power seems too easy or unproductive. Of course, if I were riding 4 hours or more, i would probably have a different take.

That's always been my take on it as well. 10%-15% below VT1 *feels* too easy to be productive, but is it? I sort of want to give it a try, as it feels like I could accumulate more volume at that level compared to riding right at or just above VT1.

Would say 90 mins @ 100% VT1 be more productive than 120 mins @ 85-90% VT1? I think I'd be able to string more of the longer 85-90% VT1 days together than the shorter 100% VT1 days.

TMonk 09-21-22 06:38 PM

For the record, I don't intentionally aim to ride at that intensity unless it is going to be 3-6 hours in length. Those are my endurance rides.

burnthesheep 09-28-22 07:56 AM

I guess spats of volume do work. I did 4 weeks of mostly just z2 with a target of some solid weekly KJ's. More than typically in the past. Then just a single intensity workout per week.

Group workout last night the vo2 reps were WAY up on power. Segment times matched effort, so meter is good. I remember only managing like 330w or so for 3min reps. There aren't many places here near my house to go all out for 3min without a small disturbance, but was managing repeats of 380w just fine.

Also over weekend managed an hour in Umstead at 19mph on hilly gravel. That's an absolute rip.

procrit 09-28-22 08:26 AM

Went out for a 2 1/2 hr ride today, planning on doing zone 2 then throw in a few vo2 intervals at the very end. Bike computer randomly died right before the intervals (I had just pulled it off the charger this morning), so I resorted to my garmin watch and using heart rate. Haven't done that in ages, and I realized my pacing ability is trash right now without a power meter lol.


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