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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Road Fan 08-01-13 05:07 AM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15911756)
I didn't mean to suggest they were. Just the opposite, that latex is just one of the factors that makes a tyre good and that its qualities make it the material of choice for any manufacturer making top quality tyres.

+1!

bibliobob 08-01-13 05:26 AM

+1. I'd much rather have latex tubes. A quick pump-up isn't a big deal, unless it's a daily commuter, in which case you shouldn't be using tubulars anyway...

RobbieTunes 08-01-13 07:24 AM


Originally Posted by Grand Bois (Post 15910166)
I've never had tires hold air like my Tufo Diamonds, either tubular or clincher. They're great on hard pack and grass because that's what they're designed for. On the road, they're not so great. They ride more like cheap clinchers than tubulars. One of these days I want to try Tufo's road tires.

I think I recall Robbietunes posting that he races on Tufos.

The Tufo tape is great for a dufus like me that can't glue on a tubular without getting glue all over the tire and myself.

I think I'd go for blackwalls in this case because Tufo's tanwalls inexplicably tend to turn black over time.

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/7611/7dv8.jpg

I still do, and will be racing on them on Saturday. I'm also running two bikes with the Tufo clinching tubulars, which brings me to 3 bikes on tubulars and 2 on clinching tubular. After 100 miles of break-in, they are smooth and durable. They're just rough on break-in, for some reason.

A good anecdote on Tufos: I bought a set of carbon wheels (came with a bike) that had red/yellow Tufo S3 Lite 195g tires mounted, tubular. I pumped them to 140psi and rode a 40-mile group ride to get used to the bike. They were fine, but hard. I dropped that to 130psi and rode an 18-mile workout ride, and they were fine, still a little hard. I decided I liked black on that bike a little better, and would run Tufo S 33 Pro's on it, instead (more durable, up to 235g---real heavyweights). Anyway, I deflated the S3 Lites and went to remove them from the carbon rims. When I pulled on the first one, it came completely off the rim. Same with the second one. Both had about 1" of glue on each side of the valve, and no glue whatsoever the entire rest of the rim. My 18-mile workout ride has a hill with a 100-degree R turn at the bottom, normally taken at 25-30mph, using counter-steer to "keep it low." How the non-glued tires stayed on the rim is beyond me.

Of course, the new tires are now taped on, and I've bought some of the Continental carbon rim adhesive, just in case. I'll probably deflate them, roll them a bit off the rim on each side, and put a thin line of the adhesive in there.

I also rec'd, as a gift of sorts, a Tufo tubular where the base material had come off of the tube for about 4 inches. I glued it back with tubular cement and super-glue, taped it to a rim, and it's fine, so far.

I'm still a Tufo guy, dedicated to the tape, but some of the other tubulars are very interesting. Schwalbe has just done me a very solid return on a defective new Legano, extremely fast and with a new tire, plus the tubes I blew (4 in a day). So, my next tires will be Schwalbes, just as my next helmet with be either a Bell or Giro, as they sent me new pads for my old ones.

ScottRyder 08-01-13 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 15910638)
www.tirealert.com.

Disclaimer: I have no prior experience with tire alert, but it's something I've considered (actually, I probably heard about it 15 pages or so ago on this thread).

I've had great luck with TireAlert. I'll be sending down one of my Dugasts in a week or so.

Scott

CV-6 08-01-13 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by ScottRyder (Post 15912724)
I've had great luck with TireAlert. I'll be sending down one of my Dugasts in a week or so.

Scott

I have sent two tubies to TA in the last year. One was a Dugast that the basetape was separating from the casing. Got it back and put the tire away until just a few days ago. Was going to mount it and saw the tape had been replaced, but it was still not adhered to the casing. The second tire is a Challenge PR. Let's just say the basetape kind of wanders, making it difficult to mount straight.

I have not contacted them yet about the Dugast.

gaucho777 08-01-13 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by bibliobob (Post 15912064)
A quick pump-up isn't a big deal, unless it's a daily commuter, in which case you shouldn't be using tubulars anyway...

I respectfully disagree with the notion that one shouldn't use tubulars on a commuter. I enjoy the feel of tubulars, and use them almost exclusively, even on my UE-8 commuter/errand bike. The roads between my house and office are pretty good, though. I just wish there was a wide, reasonably-priced, butyl-tubed tubular available for everyday use. I would use clinchers if I had to travel through rough streets with lots of glass and other road debris. Besides, if you are running late for work, it's quicker to change a tubular!

bibliobob 08-01-13 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 15913598)
I respectfully disagree with the notion that one shouldn't use tubulars on a commuter. I enjoy the feel of tubulars, and use them almost exclusively, even on my UE-8 commuter/errand bike. The roads between my house and office are pretty good, though. I just wish there was a wide, reasonably-priced, butyl-tubed tubular available for everyday use. I would use clinchers if I had to travel through rough streets with lots of glass and other road debris. Besides, if you are running late for work, it's quicker to change a tubular!

You're certainly correct about being quicker to change tubulars. But, I was referring to the comparative cost. IMHO, nice tubulars cost more than comparable quality clinchers, and are a bit more delicate. I occasionally commute on one of my tubular bikes, but am a bit paranoid the whole time (yes, Chicago streets have lots of glass!). I'd spend a fair amount on tires if I commuted on tubs (12-13 miles each way), whereas a nice set of Paselas is comparatively cheap and more durable.

Then again, you just might have more disposable bike cash than I do :)

hockeyref 08-01-13 12:30 PM

When I last road tubulars it was 1992 and I was "just a clyde" at 6'4" and 215# or so.... Now I'm more of an Uber-clyde\Pachyderm.... pushing 300# but I'm back on the bike and looking to drop about 50# ASAP. Dug through my parts closet - (literally a metal closet closed up in a cool, dry, basement with a dehumidifier keeping it at a constant humidity) - and found my old Nisi 36 hole tubs as well as a new set of Campy Victory Strada rims that beg to become a wheel build project. I also had a new never glued set of Clement Futurox tubs "stretching" on those Campy rims for the last 20 years. The latex on the sidwalls look like it was gummy and could get rubbed off my hand but the tread seems solidly attached. Thinking about resealing the sidewalls and maybe using them, but I don't know if the base tape is solid....

Sooo.. multiple questions.

- Refurb the Clements?
- Tubs for uber-clydes.... should I bother to mess with them now, or wait until I drop a few tons.
- Will my Nisi's hold up to my tonnage? IIRC I laced them with DT ss either straight 14ga or butted (don't recall if they would have been 14\15\14 or 15\16\15)....
- Will the Campy Victory Strada hold up to my tonnage and if so would you recommend straight 14ga or butted spokes.
- New tire recommendation for an uber-clyde..... The YF 3 for $50 sounds interesting but I was thinking of something more like a 25mm or a 28mm due to my present size... what say you all.
- Clinchulars? sounds interesting and maybe a decent way to transition back to my Tubs as I drop wieght seeing that I have two sets of clincher wheels..... what are the odds of pinch flats on clinchulars vs clinchers... recommendations?

gaucho777 08-01-13 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by bibliobob (Post 15913712)
Then again, you just might have more disposable bike cash than I do :)

Sadly, I doubt that's the case.

I don't want to curse myself with respect to flats, so I'll just say that there's not much glass on my 2-mile commute through residential streets, which is why I have no reluctance to commute on tubulars. But my office is about to move from Berkeley to Oakland, where glass and road debris is a concern, so I will likely use a different wheelset on those streets.

Ex Pres 08-01-13 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by hockeyref (Post 15913751)
When I last road tubulars it was 1992 and I was "just a clyde" at 6'4" and 215# or so.... Now I'm more of an Uber-clyde\Pachyderm.... pushing 300# but I'm back on the bike and looking to drop about 50# ASAP. Dug through my parts closet - (literally a metal closet closed up in a cool, dry, basement with a dehumidifier keeping it at a constant humidity) - and found my old Nisi 36 hole tubs as well as a new set of Campy Victory Strada rims that beg to become a wheel build project. I also had a new never glued set of Clement Futurox tubs "stretching" on those Campy rims for the last 20 years. The latex on the sidwalls look like it was gummy and could get rubbed off my hand but the tread seems solidly attached. Thinking about resealing the sidewalls and maybe using them, but I don't know if the base tape is solid....

Sooo.. multiple questions.

- Refurb the Clements?
- Tubs for uber-clydes.... should I bother to mess with them now, or wait until I drop a few tons.
- Will my Nisi's hold up to my tonnage? IIRC I laced them with DT ss either straight 14ga or butted (don't recall if they would have been 14\15\14 or 15\16\15)....
- Will the Campy Victory Strada hold up to my tonnage and if so would you recommend straight 14ga or butted spokes.
- New tire recommendation for an uber-clyde..... The YF 3 for $50 sounds interesting but I was thinking of something more like a 25mm or a 28mm due to my present size... what say you all.
- Clinchulars? sounds interesting and maybe a decent way to transition back to my Tubs as I drop wieght seeing that I have two sets of clincher wheels..... what are the odds of pinch flats on clinchulars vs clinchers... recommendations?

Some of those Campy Victory tub rims were lightweights < 300g. Weigh yours. I don't think I'd ride them at 300# if they are. I think I'd start with your clinch/ulars and 28mm+ width tires. I don't think clinchulars can pinch flat, but I've never used one, or even seen one in person.

RobbieTunes 08-01-13 06:02 PM

I'm building a gravel grinder with 27" rims laced to modern hubs. That Tufo Diamond looks like the way to go.

hockeyref 08-01-13 06:08 PM

Found some info about the rims on dcrwheels.co.uk http://www.dcrwheels.co.uk/products/...ictory-strada/:

//Qoute//
This is a pair of classic New Old Stock Campagnolo Victory Strada rims. Key features include:

- Double walled
- Double eyeleted
- Grey throughout
- 36h
- No machined sidewall (classic anodised finish)
- 20mm width

A 20mm width makes this a particularly narrow tubular. The strada was always a tougher version in the range, nevertheless given the era and it being a Campagnolo tubular they are light as expected. I have weighed the rims individually. One is 378g, the other is 376g. The tubulars came in a novel box. They are a legacy from when Campagnolo dominated the road market and their groupset was far more extensive in terms of available components. There is little information to date them, however I can only guess they are from 1980s at some point.
Given the weight, the extrusion should allow for road use. The Victory Strada was intended for road use. I would caution against use with poor road surfaces, however their ultra low section will make for a comfortable ride; a level of comfort and performance that can only be achieved with a tubular. They are being sold as a pair only because they come as a pair and I dislike the idea of spliting them up. New Old Stock is hard to come by and these rims are rare. They should be built up into a wheelset. They would make an excellent companion to some classic track hubs with a double butted spoke.

//Quote//

After reading this I almost want to find a set of NOS Campy SR hubs and build them as suggested above.... I believe the Crono's were the real light weights.

As for Clinchulars or even anything larger than 700x23c will require a purchase... and that is a discussion for a new thread...

Six jours 08-01-13 10:59 PM

A few thoughts...

I suspect that latex is used because consumers expect latex to be used. Butyl is associated with the very bottom of the barrel tubulars. As for suppleness and rolling resistance, most tests I've seen indicate no significant difference, or even a slight benefit from butyl! Personally, I don't care much either way, as I am not bothered by pumping up tires - it's a tradition that I've managed for decades now...

I am always a bit taken aback by claims that tubulars are more delicate than clinchers. I suppose it is true if we are talking about very cheap tubulars, like Yellow Jersey's "pair and a spare", and also true if we are comparing tubulars to some heavy commuting clincher, but when top level tubulars are compared with top level clinchers, my personal experience has been that the tubulars are much more puncture resistant. I often wear out tubulars without ever experiencing a puncture, but the same is almost never true with clinchers.

IMO, tubulars are superior to clinchers in most ways: they are lighter, they have better road feel, they are more puncture resistant, they corner better, and they are easier and quicker to replace on the road. The only downsides from my POV are cost and difficulty of initial installation - but compared to the other ways I waste my money they are a small cost, and I would almost rather glue on a well-stretched tubular than mount a "Am I sure this is actually a 700c?!?" clincher from Challenge or Continental.

And finally, re. rims: I keep seeing NOS Campagnolo Lambda Strada rims turning up on Ebay, often for as little as $100/pair. I snag some on occasion but figure I have a lifetime supply at this point. They are about 400 grams, silver anodized, and build up very nicely. I also have been buying the black anodized, box section, 385 gram Sun Vista Cruiser rims machine-built with surprisingly decent Origin8 hubs for cyclocross use. These go for $110/pair including shipping. They require detentioning and rebuilding pretty much right out of the box, but thereafter work very nicely, and the 22mm rim beds are very nice for wider tires.

hockeyref 08-02-13 11:26 AM

Well on of my questions was definitively answered last night... I went downstairs and looked at the Clements under a really good light now that they've been inflated for a few days... still holding air but I can now see the tread rubber cracking along the edges... looks like they are relegated to repair material and something to practice repairs on.....

Chombi 08-02-13 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by hockeyref (Post 15913751)
When I last road tubulars it was 1992 and I was "just a clyde" at 6'4" and 215# or so.... Now I'm more of an Uber-clyde\Pachyderm.... pushing 300# but I'm back on the bike and looking to drop about 50# ASAP. Dug through my parts closet - (literally a metal closet closed up in a cool, dry, basement with a dehumidifier keeping it at a constant humidity) - and found my old Nisi 36 hole tubs as well as a new set of Campy Victory Strada rims that beg to become a wheel build project. I also had a new never glued set of Clement Futurox tubs "stretching" on those Campy rims for the last 20 years. The latex on the sidwalls look like it was gummy and could get rubbed off my hand but the tread seems solidly attached. Thinking about resealing the sidewalls and maybe using them, but I don't know if the base tape is solid....

Sooo.. multiple questions.

- Refurb the Clements?
- Tubs for uber-clydes.... should I bother to mess with them now, or wait until I drop a few tons.
- Will my Nisi's hold up to my tonnage? IIRC I laced them with DT ss either straight 14ga or butted (don't recall if they would have been 14\15\14 or 15\16\15)....
- Will the Campy Victory Strada hold up to my tonnage and if so would you recommend straight 14ga or butted spokes.
- New tire recommendation for an uber-clyde..... The YF 3 for $50 sounds interesting but I was thinking of something more like a 25mm or a 28mm due to my present size... what say you all.
- Clinchulars? sounds interesting and maybe a decent way to transition back to my Tubs as I drop wieght seeing that I have two sets of clincher wheels..... what are the odds of pinch flats on clinchulars vs clinchers... recommendations?

I'd just sell those gummy Clements and get new, high quality tubs instead, especially if you want to ride them....
Anyway, some restorer/collector with deep pockets might pay you enough to get two sets of good new tubs.....

Grand Bois 08-02-13 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 15915138)
I'm building a gravel grinder with 27" rims laced to modern hubs. That Tufo Diamond looks like the way to go.

On 27" rims?

Pars 08-02-13 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 15915138)
I'm building a gravel grinder with 27" rims laced to modern hubs. That Tufo Diamond looks like the way to go.

Are those available as tubular clinchers? Tufo's site seems to think not. And as Grand Bois mentioned, on 27" rims?

fietsbob 08-02-13 12:22 PM



http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RobbieTunes http://www.bikeforums.net/images/but...post-right.png
I'm building a gravel grinder with 27" rims laced to modern hubs. That Tufo Diamond looks like the way to go.



On 27" rims?
The topic heading was sew up/ Tubular Tires , so the designation turns out to be 28..

but for all intents and purposes the rim is like a 700c clincher.. for brake reach and all that.
Tufo had a tubular clincher , but phased that out in favor of just Glued on tires for Cross.

there are still some tubular-clinchers in narrow road race styles .

RobbieTunes 08-02-13 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by Grand Bois (Post 15917996)
On 27" rims?

Yeah, that pipe dream went up in smoke.....right when I realized that.


Originally Posted by Pars (Post 15918074)
Are those available as tubular clinchers? Tufo's site seems to think not. And as Grand Bois mentioned, on 27" rims?

Yep, I was thinking of several solutions at once, none of which are possible.

I did pick up 3 Tufo tubulars today, one unridden, two low mileage and attached to Bontrager XXX Lite carbon wheels....not at all sure what I'll do with them, but options are out there.

iab 08-02-13 08:42 PM

My .02

The only downside to tubulars is price. Lower volume, higher prices.

And I used those Tufo Diamond 28s on a commuter. Tough tire and OK roll.

Kactus 08-03-13 07:27 PM

Just went from clinchers to tubulars on my Colnago... what a difference! I was riding Mavic G40's with Veloflex Masters and went to Mavic GP4's with Vitorria Corsa SC. The ride is much smoother and saving almost 1 lb in rotating mass makes for great acceleration.

Andiroo99 08-04-13 07:07 PM

Hi All

I recently had some wheels hand built for my vintage steel Mercian bike. I used vintage 32H Suntour Superbe Pro hubs, DT 2.0 Spokes and some vintage NOS Ambrosio Montreal 'Tubular' rims. The only problem was I did not realize that the rims were tubular. Why.... well this was is a long story.....

Anyway, there is no way I would have built up wheels using tubular rims as I do not race and like being able to swap tires easily in terms of different sizes and obviously for easy road side repair. I do not race and use the bike only for weekend rides around my home. It maybe does 50-100 miles a week if that and is put away in bad weather. Roads are usual surburban roads with mix of some potholes and glass etc but on my clinchers rarely if ever get punctures but I would never go for a ride without a spare inner tube and a puncture repair kit etc....

So I figure my options are:

1) Suck it up and just by some new clincher rims and get the wheels rebuilt. The only pain here is that I just spent good money getting the wheels hand built and I now need more rims + have to pay to get rebuilt and i have some tubular Montreals i wont use.

2) Buy some expensive tubular tires which should be ok for regular riding (I have been looking at 700x25 Conti Sprinter Gatorskins at close to $80 each and risk it. I guess i could carry supplies for roadside repairs and just make sure i always have my phone if i end up with a hole i cannot repair.

3) Just cry....

I am feeling truly indecisive.... any help welcome...

Best

A

Wildwood 08-04-13 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 15919635)
Yep, I was thinking of several solutions at once, none of which are possible.

Sounds like my job!

Wildwood 08-04-13 08:56 PM

I ride tubular on my vintage, clinchers on my "modern" roadies. Cost is the downside that prevents me from going totally tubular.

Thanks folks, this thread brings me back regularly.

Six jours 08-04-13 10:26 PM


Originally Posted by Andiroo99 (Post 15925149)
Hi All

I recently had some wheels hand built for my vintage steel Mercian bike. I used vintage 32H Suntour Superbe Pro hubs, DT 2.0 Spokes and some vintage NOS Ambrosio Montreal 'Tubular' rims. The only problem was I did not realize that the rims were tubular. Why.... well this was is a long story.....

Anyway, there is no way I would have built up wheels using tubular rims as I do not race and like being able to swap tires easily in terms of different sizes and obviously for easy road side repair. I do not race and use the bike only for weekend rides around my home. It maybe does 50-100 miles a week if that and is put away in bad weather. Roads are usual surburban roads with mix of some potholes and glass etc but on my clinchers rarely if ever get punctures but I would never go for a ride without a spare inner tube and a puncture repair kit etc....

So I figure my options are:

1) Suck it up and just by some new clincher rims and get the wheels rebuilt. The only pain here is that I just spent good money getting the wheels hand built and I now need more rims + have to pay to get rebuilt and i have some tubular Montreals i wont use.

2) Buy some expensive tubular tires which should be ok for regular riding (I have been looking at 700x25 Conti Sprinter Gatorskins at close to $80 each and risk it. I guess i could carry supplies for roadside repairs and just make sure i always have my phone if i end up with a hole i cannot repair.

3) Just cry....

I am feeling truly indecisive.... any help welcome...

Best

A

Well, if you're looking for suggestions that you rebuild with clinchers, you're probably on the wrong thread!

In your shoes, with a great, practical touring bike like the King of Mercia, I would buy some 27mm tubulars from Dugast or FMB (the Challenge brand can save you a bit of money but isn't quite as nice as the two others, IMO) and prepare to be shocked at how nice the ride of your bike will be.

Andiroo99 08-05-13 07:20 AM

These both look great but man are they pricey!

smontanaro 08-05-13 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Andiroo99 (Post 15925149)
So I figure my options are:

1) Suck it up and just by some new clincher rims and get the wheels rebuilt. The only pain here is that I just spent good money getting the wheels hand built and I now need more rims + have to pay to get rebuilt and i have some tubular Montreals i wont use.

2) Buy some expensive tubular tires which should be ok for regular riding (I have been looking at 700x25 Conti Sprinter Gatorskins at close to $80 each and risk it. I guess i could carry supplies for roadside repairs and just make sure i always have my phone if i end up with a hole i cannot repair.

3) Just cry....

No need to cry. I have been enjoying my Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tubulars (27mm). I weigh about 180, and have been running them with 65-70psi up front, 90-95psi in back. Very nice ride. I squirted in a bit of Stan's sealant last week to make them (hopefully) bulletproof. I see them priced around $118 on the net right now. I know I didn't pay nearly that much for them, perhaps $70-$75 each.

Six jours 08-05-13 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by Andiroo99 (Post 15926524)
These both look great but man are they pricey!

Yes, but how often in life do we get the opportunity to try the very best that has ever been made? I don't get to drive a Ferrari, but I can ride Dugast tubulars...

RobbieTunes 08-05-13 05:52 PM

Tape makes tubulars possible for us morons.

Those are pretty awesome wheels to give up on.

Andiroo99 08-06-13 08:23 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 15929057)
Tape makes tubulars possible for us morons.

Those are pretty awesome wheels to give up on.

AGREED. I bit the bullet and have ordered the tubulars and tape and am going to built them up and give it a go. If i end up stranded with a problem I will be back and ranting ;)))


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