The Masi's dropout hanger is askew
 

Overall, been enjoying the Masi Gran Corsa in recent weeks, since moving most of the parts over from the Palo Alto. But today I went further afield than my local rail-trail for the first time. Nice ride, but I have had some nagging dissatisfaction with shifting, and "trim noise" from the RD. I was mentally blaming the freewheel that came with wider-hubbed (126mm) wheels.


So, I was cleaning the bike on a stand on the patio, and took a closer look. The RD's cage is clearly out of plane by a few degrees, bottom pulley closer to the centerline of the bike than the upper pulley. Uh - oh...


As part of a process of elimination, I figured maybe it's the old Nuovo Record (Pat74) RD, had it's day. So I swapped in one that I had been given with zero miles on it (Pat71). No change. What's left? The hanger. I figure the hanger only needs to be out a millimeter or two for the "cumulative error", by the time you measure at the derailleur cage, to be noticeable.


So, I've been searching the forums for dropout topics. Most seem to be about traumatic damage, or misalignment of the dropouts where the wheels attach, especially after cold-setting the entire frame. Neither apply. I've read about "cold-setting" the hanger, as a first step before applying (!?!?!) heat. Not much about the actual technique. Input?


Right now, I am inclined to set the wheel-attachment portion (uh, is there a better term?) of the dropout in a vise to prevent (?) damaging that part, and then applying oomph to the hanger portion using my trusty 15" Crescent wrench (which, before I got better tools, was my way of removing fixed cups). Wrong? I suspect the hard part is knowing when "enough is enough" - small bites and repeatedly measuring by re-installing the wheel and RD. The good news is that, to my eye, I only need to adjust in the "roll axis" and not the "yaw axis" at the same time.


The frame arrived in lovely condition, I might conclude this is shipping damage on a scale so small it would have difficult to detect prior to assembly.

it's not unusual to have to bend those dropouts back occasionally. you need to find someone with a dropout hanger alignment tool. Park sells a serviceable one

As I know someone will want to see a picture, here's one but I don't know if it adds anything useful (story about the photo being 90 degrees out):
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dcd3557a6b.jpg

You might be able to get it right by eye, but it’s a lot easier with the right tool. Something like this: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod122319

if there’s a co-op nearby, they might have one you can use.

If you use a crescent wrench, I would do it with the wheel in the frame to hold the dropout in position.

That’s a pretty common and easily fixed condition. You can buy a tool to align, or make your own like I did using a piece of square steel pipe from the hardware store, a scrap axle and some spacers.
To use, remove the RD, thread the short end of axle in the hanger, and snug things up so the pipe just turns freely. Then move it around the wheel and measure to the rim. Use the tool as a lever to gently bend the hanger as necessary until the hanger and rim are in parallel planes.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...36b56eb30.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...de3ff375a.jpeg

Thanks, I've bookmarked both. I trust Park tools, but the other one is about half the price. And this is a single-use situation (yeah, I say that, and...)

Bummer, I'm sorry to see this. It's possible the frame was unknowingly shipped that way. Can you take it to a shop so the proper alignment tool can be used, I'd be happy to reimburse you for the cost.

50 bucks EBay , my LBS quoted 75 and I could have it back in 2 weeks .


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1533c984_z.jpg
IMG_0413 by mark westi, on Flickr

Yeah, either use the tool or have a shop do it, especially because it looks like your seller will reimburse the cost. I did this last year on my Motobecane with a wrench and a level, and while I got it aligned, I nicked the thread and had to tap it to clean up the error. Not the worst consequence, but a dumb error that could have been worse, and, more importantly, avoided.

As usual, good feedback here! :thumb:

Generous of you Brian -- especially as it's not 100% certain how it happened. What do you say to splitting it (uh, the cost, not the dropout :eek:)?

Nice photo showing how the tool works.

Thanks for the warning; I was ready to break out Wrenchzilla. Still not sure I could not pull it off. I left a message with the LBS, let's see what they say about having the tool & time I'd be without the bike. Shoot, I've been riding it this way for, eh, 150 miles, thinking I had goofy freewheel.

Aligning the dropouts and derailleur hanger is always my first step in setting up a bike. I have the tools, which makes it easy, but it's pretty easy to improvise a hanger tool from a spare axle as shown above. The basic idea of doing this is that you rotate the tool around, and use the distance to the rear rim as a reference. If there is more space between the tool and the rim at the top then the bottom, push the arm in when it's at the top to even the distance. Same thing if there is more difference in the front vs rear when the arm is horizontal.

FYI you can get even lazier and simply use a wheel with the tire removed. Just compare the distance at various points around the rim. Even this will work 100x better than eyeballing it with a crescent wrench. IMO.

Pretty hilarious that shops are charging 75 bux nowadays. Shops I worked in did it automatically as part of yer basic $35 tuneup, or whatever it cost BITD. Took 43 seconds.

Sounds fair, PM when you know the cost. Include your PP info.

If you DIY make sure your wheel is square to the frame...

I'd call around to any nearby frame builders and see what they charge. While $75 for labor is not an unfair price compared to electricians and plumbers, it is a lot higher than I would charge if it is only the hanger out of adjustment. And your local frame builder is probably a lot more experienced using all frame alignment tools. While your frame is there he can probably do other checks like see if the dropouts are equal distant to the center of the frame or other alignment issues. Most customers assume their frames are in good alignment when a big percentage of them are not.

It is possible the LBS price includes a more complete alignment check and they are farming the job out to a frame builder anyway. That might be the reason for the 2 week wait. There is no point to having the hanger parallel to the wheel if the dropouts are not square to the plane of the frame (requiring H tools). And if the alignment of the main triangle is off then that compromises the alignment of the dropouts. This is why a DIY job may not get everything right.

FYI dropout alignment tools are called "H tools" because that is how they were identified in old Campy catalogs. Their tools started with the letter A and just by chance their dropout alignment cups were labeled letter H because that is where they were in their identifying sequence.

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RJ the bike hack shows you how to make a homemade tool.

FWIW! We get a lot of bent RD hangers at our shop. I usually charge only $10 to align them. It's quick with the Park tool and experience. The Park tool is worth it. I'm convinced that people don't pay attention when they lay the bike down, or when they hang it on a rack or put it in the car. RDs get banged all the time so the hangers get bent. I align them so they show less than 1/4" out at the rim, both directions. On my own bikes I align the hangers closer than that, after aligning the dropouts. It makes a difference in how the RD shifts, especially with indexed systems.

$75 to align the RD hanger? Either robbery or they are doing a LOT more than you've asked for. Ask many more questions!

Two prerequisites to using the derailleur hanger alignment tool.

True teh wheel.

Dish the wheel.

(maybe three) As has been said, install the wheel square, so the rim is in the plane or parallel to the plane of the main triangle.

After you're done it might be good to (if you have the tool) align the rear dropouts. Might have to do the derailleur hanger again, or at least check it.

If you want precise alignment, get a precise tool:
https://www.efficientvelo.com/tools/...alignment-tool
I know Brett, the inventor. Genuinely nice person and brilliant bike mechanic/tool maker.

You CAN eyeball it but it's hard to be accurate. As someone said above, be sure to have a wheel clamped in the frame, and check fork end alignment afterwards.

Love those EVT tools Jeff ! I have the dishing guage and it is awesome.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA

If the difference is $65, it's probably worth driving up from the MD suburbs of DC!

Wow, my checkbook balance would be precisely $500 lower. ;) It looks beautifully made...

Hey, Not sure where you are in Maryland but I am a P/T er at Bike Dr in Annapolis and I believe we charge $15 to align the hanger. Usually can do it while you wait. Just saying.

Bill

Thanks, let's call that Plan B if the LBS cannot help or is too much $$$. I'm just south of Goddard Space Flight Center, so 1.5-to-2 gallons of gas away. While in Annapolis, I can see if I need anything from Velo Orange too, like those dropout screws....:o

$75 is the retail for the park tool, isn't it?

The Cyclus looks okay https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...ent-tool-25599

you can find the Shimano version of the EVT tool on ebay occasionally. Often missing parts though.