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Unca_Sam 07-02-20 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21559085)
Never had any credit card debt. Paid off the mortgage early. Just paid off the car last month. Took nearly the entire 4 years because it was a no interest loan.

Dirty secret about 0% dealer/manufacturer financing: The expected (reasonable) interest is simply added to the principal amount, to be amortized over the life of the loan. Dealers can reduce the purchase price more when cash or a nominal interest rate is used. To hit that right, you should go near the end of a sales reporting cycle or the floor plan payment date, when a dealer may take a small loss on an individual vehicle to make their numbers better for a larger bonus or smaller payment.

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=FiftySix;21565768]Yep. Don't give up that insurance prematurely. Up to the summer of 2016, we (my family) had reasonable health insurance premiums and coverage.

Once we lost that when my wife got laid off, my company's premium for three people (me, wife, college kid) has been offered at over $2K per month for the last several years. The last quote given in November 2019 was a premium of $2590.00 per month for some Blue Cross/Blue Shield Plan. Which means I haven't had insurance through my company in that time.

Here's two smart phone screen shots I took last November when shopping for health insurance at the healthcare.gov marketplace yet again. When the premiums get affordable, the deductibles are through the roof.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b8e692b11.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ca1f704d94.jpg
:eek: yup thatís ridiculous and to me just all kinds of wrong. I just have to take care of myself as far as health insurance and what I have to fork out each month is criminal. I donít expect free anything but affordable. Last surgeon failed to fix my hand but Iím still screwed. Every follow up they wanted 50 bucks. I was like look what I already paid you plus what the insurance paid you. You want 50 bucks for 45 seconds to tell me to come back in two weeks to take 50 more bucks. And so on. I would have that carbon wheelset already you jackwagon. Then I had to sign a document saying I didnít have supplemental insurance I was like you buzzards want to bleed everything. The butcher at the local meat market could of done a better job! Just get me drunk and a piece of leather to bite on and start cutting. Like the old days.... ok rant just beginning :lol:

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 03:32 PM

I got Blue Ripoff/ And screw you over Shield of Texas .... :bang: :troll:

FiftySix 07-02-20 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel (Post 21566013)

:eek: yup that’s ridiculous and to me just all kinds of wrong. I just have to take care of myself as far as health insurance and what I have to fork out each month is criminal. I don’t expect free anything but affordable. Last surgeon failed to fix my hand but I’m still screwed. Every follow up they wanted 50 bucks. I was like look what I already paid you plus what the insurance paid you. You want 50 bucks for 45 seconds to tell me to come back in two weeks to take 50 more bucks. And so on. I would have that carbon wheelset already you jackwagon. Then I had to sign a document saying I didn’t have supplemental insurance I was like you buzzards want to bleed everything. The butcher at the local meat market could of done a better job! Just get me drunk and a piece of leather to bite on and start cutting. Like the old days.... ok rant just beginning :lol:

We've had good doctors and bad doctors. The bad ones make me never want to go back to seek medical care. And the bad ones seem to smell money from insurance or a bank account and make their decisions based on that.

One story I can tell is that I remember the last couple years we had insurance and my wife was visiting her GP for a thyroid issue. She'd get blood work done, the doc would call my wife in to look over the results, and give a prescription. A month later, my wife would repeat the process and the doc would adjust the thyroid prescription. This went on month after month after month. Then we lost insurance and my wife sucked it up and didn't go back to the doctor. For whatever reason, my wife's thyroid issue vanished after a couple months. No more 'scrips, no more bloodwork, no more doctor, and *poof* she was cured.

When I get a price up front and pay cash the way we do now, we have a lot less trouble with doctors.

genec 07-02-20 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21559447)
The mistake i regret the most is being way too conservative with my retirement savings investment early on. Had I taken average risk, I might have been able to retire by now (age 55). The real issue is benefits. I have a darn good package through work, including medical with a $1,500 deductible and a $5,000 yearly out of pocket maximum. That's a tough nut to give up. Hoping this country gets universal care in the next five year because I highly doubt I will work beyond 60.

Make sure you have something to do when you retire. I was drifting along, sailing a bit, drinking beer a bit, making beer a bit, going camping a bit... bit o this bit o that... and someone from my past called and offered me "a little contract." Well damn, it was the sort of work I once enjoyed... and now I've fallen out of retirement, not drinking beer, not sailing, and not camping... and that little contract... has turned into full time work again. And the WIFE likes the check coming in... SIGH.

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 04:25 PM


Originally Posted by FiftySix (Post 21566045)
We've had good doctors and bad doctors. The bad ones make me never want to go back to seek medical care. And the bad ones seem to smell money from insurance or a bank account and make their decisions based on that.

One story I can tell is that I remember the last couple years we had insurance and my wife was visiting her GP for a thyroid issue. She'd get blood work done, the doc would call my wife in to look over the results, and give a prescription. A month later, my wife would repeat the process and the doc would adjust the thyroid prescription. This went on month after month after month. Then we lost insurance and my wife sucked it up and didn't go back to the doctor. For whatever reason, my wife's thyroid issue vanished after a couple months. No more 'scrips, no more bloodwork, no more doctor, and *poof* she was cured.

When I get a price up front and pay cash the way we do now, we have a lot less trouble with doctors.

Probably not fixing the problem so he could collect money off the insurance. Not saying that is what happened but itís possible. I had a tooth extraction a few months back and when then asked said I was paying cash since I have no dental insurance. They got right to out and did a great job. Made me wonder? They were all happy with cold cash instead of insurance?

FiftySix 07-02-20 04:34 PM


Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel (Post 21566112)
Probably not fixing the problem so he could collect money off the insurance. Not saying that is what happened but it’s possible. I had a tooth extraction a few months back and when then asked said I was paying cash since I have no dental insurance. They got right to out and did a great job. Made me wonder? They were all happy with cold cash instead of insurance?

It certainly can be the case, and I too have paid cash for recent dental work in the family.

Another story to tell is when I needed to take my youngest kid (the one in college) to a dermatologist to get a skin growth removed. Again, we didn't have insurance so I started searching around and found a semi-retired dermatologist with his own practice and he had great reviews.

This particular dermatologist did not accept any insurance whatsoever. The small office staff of two said this kept them from having to hire a third person to handle insurance claims.

If I remember the prices correctly, an office visit was $120.00 for new patients and $80.00 for existing patients. I took my daughter in, the growth was removed and cauterized, and I wrote a check for $120.00. Done.

Sadly, he passed away recently as he was up in age. I'm glad he was available for those that needed him.

Edit to add: That process would have been different if we had insurance. Like the two separate times that same daughter needed ingrown toenails fixed, but we had insurance. Which meant you had to go to the pediatrician first (and pay the co-pay) to get the recommendation to go to a specialist (the podiatrist). The podiatrist wasn't a co-pay situation and our deductible hadn't been met, so it was something like $280.00 per big toe.

If we hadn't followed that procedure, the payment to the podiatrist wouldn't have gone in the record books towards our deductible.

Unca_Sam 07-02-20 04:40 PM


Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel (Post 21566112)
Probably not fixing the problem so he could collect money off the insurance. Not saying that is what happened but itís possible. I had a tooth extraction a few months back and when then asked said I was paying cash since I have no dental insurance. They got right to out and did a great job. Made me wonder? They were all happy with cold cash instead of insurance?

Another dirty secret: procedure cost payments from insurance (unless it's routine and uses a set price) use a percentage of the provider's cost, which they make as high as possible so they can net the amount they need for buying those Cervťlo and titanium bikes :D. They also don't have to wait 60 days for the claim to clear and to get paid.

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21566142)
Another dirty secret: procedure cost payments from insurance (unless it's routine and uses a set price) use a percentage of the provider's cost, which they make as high as possible so they can net the amount they need for buying those Cervťlo and titanium bikes :D. They also don't have to wait 60 days for the claim to clear and to get paid.

Yup, on a previous hand operation they were training a new person in the back and I could over near them to make the story short. It was said that we charge the insurance 25K so we can get 12k those are not the exact numbers because I donít remember but you get what Iím saying. I was like :troll:

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 04:51 PM

Oh look, the cleared and get paid part now another :troll: they were billing me some crazy amount! I’m like I have insurance you idiots! The paper flow was slow. 60 days if the insurance was late on day 61 that is on all of you! You will get the money don’t worry baby cry!

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by FiftySix (Post 21566130)
It certainly can be the case, and I too have paid cash for recent dental work in the family.

Another story to tell is when I needed to take my youngest kid (the one in college) to a dermatologist to get a skin growth removed. Again, we didn't have insurance so I started searching around and found a semi-retired dermatologist with his own practice and he had great reviews.

This particular dermatologist did not accept any insurance whatsoever. The small office staff of two said this kept them from having to hire a third person to handle insurance claims.

If I remember the prices correctly, an office visit was $120.00 for new patients and $80.00 for existing patients. I took my daughter in, the growth was removed and cauterized, and I wrote a check for $120.00. Done.

Sadly, he passed away recently as he was up in age. I'm glad he was available for those that needed him.

Edit to add: That process would have been different if we had insurance. Like the two separate times that same daughter needed ingrown toenails fixed, but we had insurance. Which meant you had to go to the pediatrician first (and pay the co-pay) to get the recommendation to go to a specialist (the podiatrist). The podiatrist wasn't a co-pay situation and our deductible hadn't been met, so it was something like $280.00 per big toe.

If we hadn't followed that procedure, the payment to the podiatrist wouldn't have gone in the record books towards our deductible.

:troll: Another one! Went to the foot specialist I had to have a foot operation. Canít see you until you got to the general practitioner I was like :wtf:drove back to Hondo and the doc approved right away no charge he said this is BS. They had to hire a girl just to do referrals because of some new law of whatever. The lady in charge at the local medical center said they are all pissed because this adds an extra load they donít need. Was able to make it back into SA the same day since it isnít that far and set everything else up. FRIKIN :troll: :lol: ok time for a cold Colorado Gatorade it is 101 outside and that is where I am watering grass.

FiftySix 07-02-20 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel (Post 21566172)
:troll: Another one! Went to the foot specialist I had to have a foot operation. Canít see you until you got to the general practitioner I was like :wtf:drove back to Hondo and the doc approved right away no charge he said this is BS. They had to hire a girl just to do referrals because of some new law of whatever. The lady in charge at the local medical center said they are all pissed because this adds an extra load they donít need. Was able to make it back into SA the same day since it isnít that far and set everything else up. FRIKIN :troll: :lol: ok time for a cold Colorado Gatorade it is 101 outside and that is where I am watering grass.

Colorado Gatorade time indeed!!!
:beer:

Unca_Sam 07-02-20 05:04 PM

Healthcare in America is just illusion after illusion. We pay more for our care (because someone will pay cash rates, set high so negotiated rates can cover more than a decade learning medicine), but our outcomes are worse than other countries (because the profit motive is so strong that sufficiently stubborn individuals can tough it out to get on that gravy train). "Insurance for all" and "Medicare for all" will result in substandard, overly expensive care (despite the fact that no single insurance provider has enough market share to negotiate favorably with larger medical networks). While it's true that killing the profit motive aspect might decrease the number of medical providers, it's unlikely to reduce the overall quality if the conscientious providers are the ones staying.

desconhecido 07-02-20 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by no motor? (Post 21557444)
I want to see what changes society makes as the virus becomes less of a problem. Hopefully the changes for the better will be more common, but I don't have enough faith in humanity to be live that will be the case.

I had hoped that one good result of this disease, though at a terrible cost, would be wider awareness of how costly normal influenza is For many years we've been told about the annual death toll and the importance of vaccinations and good hygiene and all that, but we Americans, in general, have ignored the warnings, not enough get vaccinated, not enough wash their hands as often as they should and all the rest. But, recent events have pretty much harshed my sanguinity.

desconhecido 07-02-20 06:01 PM


Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel (Post 21557310)
I think I made wise decisions financially over the years. With not knowing how long this Covid virus will have everything slowing to a crawl. Iím thinking on ways to be smart not to get into a crack by doing unwise things. Things of substance is far more important right now. The style stuff can take a backseat as far as I am concerned. Iíve seen too many relatives get in horrible financial situations because they need the best and the greatest and people were very willing to sell it to them. Didnít work out to well for them in the long run. Luckily I didnít catch that disease and always had the older truck the less fancy material goods and so on. This crisis is really making me think hard about what is important and what is not.

Well, Mr. Gravel, frugality and debt control are not vices. I learned the debt control lesson back in 1986 when I was making a nice living as oil field trash in Midland, TX and the bottom fell out of the oil industry. I found myself living in a house we couldn't afford to sell. 250,000 people in Texas out of work over night. Geologists with advanced degrees dragging lawnmowers around town looking for work. Joke was that the bank was offering a bonus for new accounts: a toaster or a house in Midland, your choice. But have to move as the toasters were going fast. Survived that one and was fortunate to survive in the oil industry until retirement. Never allowed ourselves to get under water in a mortgage again. And, when you pay the mortgage off early, it's like getting a big raise. I think in general, staying ahead of debt is a good thing to do. As noted above, there's no such thing as a free loan.

Hondo Gravel 07-02-20 07:17 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 21566260)
Well, Mr. Gravel, frugality and debt control are not vices. I learned the debt control lesson back in 1986 when I was making a nice living as oil field trash in Midland, TX and the bottom fell out of the oil industry. I found myself living in a house we couldn't afford to sell. 250,000 people in Texas out of work over night. Geologists with advanced degrees dragging lawnmowers around town looking for work. Joke was that the bank was offering a bonus for new accounts: a toaster or a house in Midland, your choice. But have to move as the toasters were going fast. Survived that one and was fortunate to survive in the oil industry until retirement. Never allowed ourselves to get under water in a mortgage again. And, when you pay the mortgage off early, it's like getting a big raise. I think in general, staying ahead of debt is a good thing to do. As noted above, there's no such thing as a free loan.

F

Very true. I remember the crash back then I was working construction then it crashed and hard. I was a very young worker so it didnít impact me that much. But many Corvettes and fancy boats and other stuff got repossessed. Some Geologists started mowing lawns to make ends meet then Geological Society said thatís a bad a bad image. what hard work? They said pay us more and we wonít mow lawns on the side. That said NO so they quit and form a lawn mowing service.

Kimmo 07-03-20 03:20 AM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21559420)
Luck has little (if anything) to do with it.

Well, that's just something people like to say.

In fact, the evidence all points the other way. I could spit out a copuple of essays from different angles, each with a rock-solid chain of reasoning to cast serious doubt on the notion that anything isn't down to luck.

Cause and effect.

Pop N Wood 07-03-20 07:37 PM

As Emerson once described Thoreau:

He chose to be rich by making his wants few, and supplying them himself

Of course it didn't hurt that Emerson owned the pond that Thoreau squatted on when he wrote his famous book.

Kimmo 07-03-20 11:22 PM

Attachment is the cause of all suffering.

no motor? 07-04-20 05:44 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21566179)
Healthcare in America is just illusion after illusion. We pay more for our care (because someone will pay cash rates, set high so negotiated rates can cover more than a decade learning medicine), but our outcomes are worse than other countries (because the profit motive is so strong that sufficiently stubborn individuals can tough it out to get on that gravy train). "Insurance for all" and "Medicare for all" will result in substandard, overly expensive care (despite the fact that no single insurance provider has enough market share to negotiate favorably with larger medical networks). While it's true that killing the profit motive aspect might decrease the number of medical providers, it's unlikely to reduce the overall quality if the conscientious providers are the ones staying.

The dominant system in the US is profit based sickness care. We lead the world in costs, rank 37th on the WHO in results and things are getting worse.

indyfabz 07-04-20 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21565799)
Dirty secret about 0% dealer/manufacturer financing: The expected (reasonable) interest is simply added to the principal amount, to be amortized over the life of the loan. Dealers can reduce the purchase price more when cash or a nominal interest rate is used. To hit that right, you should go near the end of a sales reporting cycle or the floor plan payment date, when a dealer may take a small loss on an individual vehicle to make their numbers better for a larger bonus or smaller payment.

I work for a company that does business with Subaru so I was eligible for a special deal: 2% below factory invoice. No haggling. Got a new 2017 Forester in July of 2016. I was going to pay cash but got offered the 0% financing after the price was worked out. Happy with what I paid. Car turns 4 next week. Just went over 11,000 miles last week. Iím 55. Itís the first car I bought entirely for myself. Back in Ď95 I bought a car for my mom that we shared. Had it for over 18 years. Fewer that 109,000 miles. Some idiot kid totaled it while it was parked on the street.

jack pot 07-04-20 07:09 PM

^^^^ change the oil & it will drive you past trump COVID & into the great beyond > I've had Gwagons LandCruisers F150s 911s & jeeps and i will attest that my 2010 forester is the best car that i have ever owned and the cheapest to buy and operate

indyfabz 07-05-20 05:45 AM


Originally Posted by jack pot (Post 21569568)
^^^^ change the oil & it will drive you past trump COVID & into the great beyond > I've had Gwagons LandCruisers F150s 911s & jeeps and i will attest that my 2010 forester is the best car that i have ever owned and the cheapest to buy and operate

It was recalled early on because the lazy Japanese robot may not have filled it with enough transmission fluid. Then the driver seatbelt buckle cover fell apart. Then the ac condenser crapped out. Then the battery died prematurely. (A coworker experienced the last two with her 2017 Forester.) Fortunately, the car was still under warranty. The latest is that there may be corrosion in the sensor for the front passenger air bag. Subaruís initial work around was to tell people to try to not people sit in that seat. Later, it notified owners of a fix. Havenít taken it in yet.

jack pot 07-05-20 06:42 AM

^^^^ :(

FiftySix 07-05-20 09:45 AM


Originally Posted by indyfabz (Post 21569993)
It was recalled early on because the lazy Japanese robot may not have filled it with enough transmission fluid. Then the driver seatbelt buckle cover fell apart. Then the ac condenser crapped out. Then the battery died prematurely. (A coworker experienced the last two with her 2017 Forester.) Fortunately, the car was still under warranty. The latest is that there may be corrosion in the sensor for the front passenger air bag. Subaru’s initial work around was to tell people to try to not people sit in that seat. Later, it notified owners of a fix. Haven’t taken it in yet.

Thanks to the pandemic making my work scarce in April and May, I had the time to take in two cars for airbag recalls. The service departments (Toyota & Ford) had plexi-screens, masks, and social distancing markers on the ground everywhere. The service crews were masked, gloved, and covered parts of the interior with plastic sheeting. For their safety as well as ours.

Not sure what the service wait time is now, but back then both cars were done in a couple hours each.


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