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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Fir 06-10-10 12:37 PM

[QUOTE=gna;10942226]

For online tutorials, my favorite has disappeared, but GrahamNR17 has several excellent videos on YouTube. Go to his website and click on "Technical": http://www.togglechaintour.co.uk/

[QUOTE=gna;10942226]


Great viddiyo. My favourite line so far:

"Cause nothing coming out o' Nott'n'am by then was particularly circular."

gna 06-10-10 01:07 PM

[QUOTE=Fir;10942881]

Originally Posted by gna (Post 10942226)

For online tutorials, my favorite has disappeared, but GrahamNR17 has several excellent videos on YouTube. Go to his website and click on "Technical": http://www.togglechaintour.co.uk/

[/QUOTE=gna;10942226]


Great viddiyo. My favourite line so far:

"Cause nothing coming out o' Nott'n'am by then was particularly circular."

That's a good one.

I love it when the dog farts in one of the videos.

Fir 06-10-10 02:12 PM

[QUOTE=gna;10943056]

Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10942881)


That's a good one.

I love it when the dog farts in one of the videos.

He has the most specific oil advice i've seen [except he says nothing about amount or frequency.] Guess i'll stop with the double virgin extra cold pressed olive oil with tarragon then. Now i'm looking for the dog one.

gna 06-10-10 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10943460)

He has the most specific oil advice i've seen [except he says nothing about amount or frequency.] Guess i'll stop with the double virgin extra cold pressed olive oil with tarragon then. Now i'm looking for the dog one.

I think it's a pawl one.

I use 10W30 motor oil. I bought a quart of synthetic 10W30 on sale. Lots of folks use Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF), too.

Sixty Fiver 06-10-10 02:18 PM

[QUOTE=Fir;10943460]

Originally Posted by gna (Post 10943056)

He has the most specific oil advice i've seen [except he says nothing about amount or frequency.] Guess i'll stop with the double virgin extra cold pressed olive oil with tarragon then. Now i'm looking for the dog one.

Problem with the tarragon infused oil is that you can't help from getting hungry on your ride, which is always a problem for me.

My rides tend to be the time spent between snacks.

Fir 06-10-10 02:45 PM

Czech it out
 
Speaking of which, Aaron mentioned something about repowering his motor and I was thinking to suggest a nice dark Czech fermentation. There's one called "Baron" (est 1466) for instance. I find it powers my bike remarkably. I just place it in the refridgerator in an obvious location. I find the bike moves much quicker and more smoothly, particularly when pointed toward home.

old's'cool 06-10-10 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10936266)
UBC '91 :-)

My Alma Mater! B.A.Sc. Mechanical Engineering '86
We probably didn't quite cross paths... then again, I took a few post grad classes up to '88 or so. Oh, and I was dating an English major(ette) in '88...

desconhecido 06-10-10 07:15 PM

The 3-speed hub on the $30 Raleigh Sports that I posted about recently was pretty much fubar when I bought the bike. After I took the hub out of the wheel, I overfilled it with ATF and exercised the crap out of it in all forward gears and back pedal. I thought that I was going to have to take it apart, but after messing with it for relatively brief periods over several days, and draining and re-overfilling, it started to work ok. all three gears would engage and it would "coast" properly. Eventually, it stopped leaking ATF and appeared to be fine. I built it into a new wheel and it's on the bike and it performs flawlessly. Shifts easily, coasts properly, back pedals properly -- what can I say, I'm in Sturmey Archer Nirvana. The moral of this story is, just because your 3-speed hub isn't happy right now doesn't mean it won't respond to a ltittle massaging -- even while enclosed.

noglider 06-10-10 07:40 PM

Sturmey Archer and ATF: a match made in ______________(fill in the blank).

desconhecido 06-10-10 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10945013)
Sturmey Archer and ATF: a match made in ______________(fill in the blank).

I don't know if ATF is the ideal lubricant for these hubs or not, but it seems to work fine. I know that it's supposed to be for automatic transmissions (duh), but it is also the fluid that Mercedes specified for the transmission in the 190SL (Dexron, as I recall). Volvo 240s with manual overdrive transmissions also use ATF (Mercon, which may be the same as Dexron, I don't know). I've sort of taken a liking to ATF, probably because I have a supply left over from a Volvo 245 station wagon fetish that required serious intervention to overcome. I'm thinking of using it as chain lube.

My suspicion is that the lubrication requirements of the SA 3 speed hubs are pretty easily met by any low viscosity oil that doesn't turn to tar like linseed oil or WD40 would or easily evaporate.

noglider 06-10-10 10:30 PM

I use ATF on my chains, too. It's great.

Fir 06-11-10 10:17 AM

Sorry, Tom; yours was The most specific hub oil recommendation: ATF :-)


BTW, Clubman or anyone, when encountering an old CCM with no documentation, can anyone tell how to discern whether he has a one or two speed hub when he is feeling too poorly to be ridden? I read someplace that some of them had a hub that you kick backwards to shift. How you'd do that without engaging the rear wheel decelleration and tail-spin system was not described.

Sixty Fiver 06-11-10 12:22 PM

My favourite chain lube is home brew... 1 part motor oil and three parts mineral spirits.

Best lube I have ever used.

flammenwurfer 06-11-10 02:44 PM

Since I discovered the joy of 3 speeds I've been using 3-in-1 30 weight Motor Oil. It comes in the same convenient and cheap bottle that regular 3-in-1 does but it doesn't gum up like I've heard the regular stuff does. I've had no problems so far. I also use it as chain lube.

desconhecido 06-11-10 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10947696)
BTW, Clubman or anyone, when encountering an old CCM with no documentation, can anyone tell how to discern whether he has a one or two speed hub when he is feeling too poorly to be ridden? I read someplace that some of them had a hub that you kick backwards to shift. How you'd do that without engaging the rear wheel decelleration and tail-spin system was not described.

When we were kids, Schwinn made a bicycle with a two speed coaster brake rear hub. To the best of my recollection, the hub was by Bendix. What visually differentiated the two speed coaster brake hub from the single speed Bendix coaster brake hub were several red bands painted on the two-speed. It is my recollection that there were grooves/indentations in the two-speed which were painted, but I never examined one sufficiently close to tell. On the net, there are some pictures of two-speed Bendix hubs with the bands painted yellow, but I remember red.

The way that the hub worked was by a very slight backwards torque. Too slight to engage the coaster brake, almost unnoticeable, but it would shift between the two gearings. I never owned one of these bicycles as they were way too expensive for us, but I did ride several owned by wealthier friends and my recollection is that they worked very, very well. My guess is that the two gears were low, and direct -- sort of like the two lower speeds on an AW hub. But that's a guess.

Probably, in addition to the colored bands there will be some sort of marking either on the hub itself or the coaster brake frame bracket which will identify the hub, though that's a guess too.

Roll-Monroe-Co 06-11-10 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 10949154)
When we were kids, Schwinn made a bicycle with a two speed coaster brake rear hub. To the best of my recollection, the hub was by Bendix. What visually differentiated the two speed coaster brake hub from the single speed Bendix coaster brake hub were several red bands painted on the two-speed. It is my recollection that there were grooves/indentations in the two-speed which were painted, but I never examined one sufficiently close to tell. On the net, there are some pictures of two-speed Bendix hubs with the bands painted yellow, but I remember red.

The way that the hub worked was by a very slight backwards torque. Too slight to engage the coaster brake, almost unnoticeable, but it would shift between the two gearings. I never owned one of these bicycles as they were way too expensive for us, but I did ride several owned by wealthier friends and my recollection is that they worked very, very well. My guess is that the two gears were low, and direct -- sort of like the two lower speeds on an AW hub. But that's a guess.

Probably, in addition to the colored bands there will be some sort of marking either on the hub itself or the coaster brake frame bracket which will identify the hub, though that's a guess too.

http://www.bunchobikes.com/auto.htm

For the Bendix version, the two-speed hubs are substantially larger than the regular coaster brake hubs.

I think there were two of the two-speed models: red and yellow. One has ratios for a smaller wheel (yellow, I think). In the US, anyway, the two-speed hubs are somewhat rare (that is, you'll see a very large number of bendix coaster brake hubs for every one two-speed that you come across).

Fichtel und Sachs also made a two-speed hub (I believe these are regarded as superior).

Edit: Ah, better info here: http://www.trfindley.com/pgbndxhbs.html


Originally Posted by trfindley

The Automatic hub was made from 1960 to 1969. It was last listed in the 1970 Schwinn Catalog.

There were 3 types of Automatic Hubs, identified by band color: Red, Yellow, and Blue bands. The Red Band was made 1960-1964. The Yellow and Blue Bands were made 1965-1969.

The red and yellow band hubs have a low gear: 1 sprocket turn for .67 hub turn to go up hills easier. High gear is 1:1. The hubs would go on bikes with 26" and 24" wheels. They were also used on bikes with 20" wheels and 46-teeth sprockets. The red and yellow hubs have some different parts in them that won't interchange. Check the diagram for the different brake parts of each hub.

The blue band has 1:1 low gear, and high is overdrive: 1 sprocket turn for 1.5 hub turn. These are used on bikes with 20" wheels and 36-teeth sprockets to go further on flat roads.


clubman 06-11-10 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10947696)
Sorry, Tom; yours was The most specific hub oil recommendation: ATF :-)


BTW, Clubman or anyone, when encountering an old CCM with no documentation, can anyone tell how to discern whether he has a one or two speed hub when he is feeling too poorly to be ridden? I read someplace that some of them had a hub that you kick backwards to shift. How you'd do that without engaging the rear wheel decelleration and tail-spin system was not described.

CCM sold a Centennial Duomatic model in '67 sporting the F&S Duomatic hub...that's the only one I know of.

You only back pedal a titch to make the gear change...you don't have to create any drag, at all.

Fir 06-11-10 08:50 PM

Thanx guise, I have two CCMs one with 28" and one with 26" round and round parts. Both have the Sachs hub. Either of them might be centennial babies, not sure. I'll just have to retyre them to find out, i expect.

Last night we took our BBF2 to the opera. It was a total tragedy, with a lot of hollaring and fighting and heaving bosoms and the young lady died untimely. (The opera that is, the bike performed admirably, the stoker exemplary.) It strikes me as a rather civilized way to get to a somewhat barbaric form of entertainment.

gna 06-11-10 08:59 PM


Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co (Post 10949299)
http://www.bunchobikes.com/auto.htm

I think there were two of the two-speed models: red and yellow. One has ratios for a smaller wheel (yellow, I think). In the US, anyway, the two-speed hubs are somewhat rare (that is, you'll see a very large number of bendix coaster brake hubs for every one two-speed that you come across).

We've drifted from English 3 speeds, but if anyone in the Twin Cities wants one of these hubs, I know a place trying to sell some old Schwinns with kickback hubs, so far with no success: http://mmrbstore.com/

wahoonc 06-12-10 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by Roll-Monroe-Co (Post 10949299)
http://www.bunchobikes.com/auto.htm

For the Bendix version, the two-speed hubs are substantially larger than the regular coaster brake hubs.

I think there were two of the two-speed models: red and yellow. One has ratios for a smaller wheel (yellow, I think). In the US, anyway, the two-speed hubs are somewhat rare (that is, you'll see a very large number of bendix coaster brake hubs for every one two-speed that you come across).

Fichtel und Sachs also made a two-speed hub (I believe these are regarded as superior).

Edit: Ah, better info here: http://www.trfindley.com/pgbndxhbs.html

Sturmey Archers has a new one out or coming out shortly. I have a couple of the red line Bendix. Biggest problems I have had with them is that there is an internal spring that breaks and is all but impossible to find a replacement for. They are fun to ride, mine is built into a 26" cruiser wheel that is supposed to go on my ratrod if I ever get it built.

Aaron :)

mickey85 06-12-10 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 10948375)
My favourite chain lube is home brew... 1 part motor oil and three parts mineral spirits.

Best lube I have ever used.


I'd think it'd have a detergent quality that would work very well for cleaning up the hubs. It's not too watery?

I use ATF in my Sturmeys and find that it works rather well.

Also, for the comment about WD-40, I find that with sticky hubs, if you drown it in WD-40 and ride it for 20 miles or so (shifting very often), then refill with ATF twice (to clean out the WD), it works really well to de-gunk long-sitting hubs.

desconhecido 06-12-10 03:44 PM

WD40 isn't bad for getting stuck stuff unstuck, the problem is that it leaves a residue behind as it evaporates and it is more volatile than oils, atf, etc. So, if you allow it to remain in the hub, it's not good. Using it as a flush and then flushing it with atf, or whatever, is ok, I suppose.

Apparently, the primary ingredient in WD40 is a light hydrocarbon closely related to something called Stoddard solvent which is a lot like kerosene. It's pretty much the stuff that's used in solvent cleaning systems. So, yes, like the solvent or kerosene it will dissolve gunk and "varnish" left behind by the evaporation of other oils/lubricants. You can also use ATF cut 50-50 with acetone.

gna 06-13-10 08:14 PM

Triumph of the will
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here's some before, during, and after shots of a Triumph I fixed up for my sister-in-law:

Attachment 155218Attachment 155220Attachment 155219

The hub was coated with varnish and filth. A pawl spring was broken, too. The parts look a little worn, but it seems to work okay. I regeared with a 22T cog, as she lives in Birmingham, Alabama.

noglider 06-14-10 06:21 AM

Very nice job, gna! How hilly is Birmingham? More importantly, how does she like it?

gna 06-14-10 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10958921)
Very nice job, gna! How hilly is Birmingham? More importantly, how does she like it?

She saw it when it was in pieces, but it's on its way to her right now. She seemed excited by it. I included the old seat, but I encouraged her to give the Brooks a try.
Birmingham is very hilly--it's the beginning of the Appalachians--so 22T may not be big enough.

Now I have to fix up the Gentleman's Triumph for my brother, and a Lady's Sports for a friend of my wife, and the Sports Khatfull dropped off--lots of English 3-speed love.


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