Recommended Indoor Trainers?
 

Brief background: During warmer months, I log ~1100 miles per month (outdoors, on the road), but for the next 6 or so months I will be in an area with bad, debris-strewn, poorly lit, and potentially wintry/icy roads. I've punctured 6 times and double-flatted once in the ~14 outdoor rides I've so far attempted here (as mentioned, roads are in really bad shape), so looking to maintain fitness indoors during that time period until I can find a more road-bike-friendly area.

I've done some research but am wondering if others can recommend any favorite indoor setups or particular bikes.

A few specific questions:

1. What are the pros/cons of a DIY/low-budget Zwift-compatible spin bike setup (e.g. taking a relatively inexpensive spin bike, attaching a cadence/speed sensor)?

2. Some of the smart trainers I've come across look quite interesting, especially because I've never trained with a power meter and am hoping to improve FTP over the winter. Relative to question 1 and the budget considerations, if you've used any of the higher end trainers, is a $1000 smart trainer actually that much "better" than a DIY $250 spin bike + speed sensor? (e.g. better in terms of the fitness gains to be expected, the enjoyment of riding, etc.)

3. If your budget were $400-600, what would you purchase?

4. What if it were $800-1200?

5. Do you prefer the trainers where you take the wheel off and attach your chain, or the ones where the wheel is kept on? Why one over the other?

Thanks in advance for your advice/recommendations/suggestions.

Assuming you're willing to use your existing road bike on a trainer, you have several options in your budget ranges.

A wheel - on trainer (example: Tacx Flow) will set you back around $370. It's a smart trainer, but you will have tire wear (use the extra budget $$ to pick up a spare rear wheel with an indoor trainer tire on it and a cassette) and there is the need to calibrate it. The tension on the rear wheel has to be set and checked regularly, and there is always the possibility of tire slippage on the roller drum. That being said, I use an older model, wheel on Tacx, and I'm happy with it.

If you're willing to go high budget, consider a direct drive trainer. A Tacx Flux S will set you back around $750, a Tacx Flux 2 around $900, and at the top of your budget, the Wahoo Kickr at around $1200. I'm sure there are other brands and models, so look around and read reviews.

With a smart trainer, you can quantify your fitness gains in a way that I don't think you can without one. You could say "I've been winning more Zwift races" or "I feel stronger," but you couldn't put a number on it. If you're the kind of person who is motivated by chasing numbers, that's an advantage. A smart trainer also lets you be more precise about training: FTP-oriented intervals have a high end of 105% FTP; VO2-oriented intervals have a low end of 110% FTP. I don't think there would be another way to train at such close power levels reliably.

You can absolutely get fitter riding a "dumb" trainer, but I think the gains will take longer and will be less focused.

If you haven't seen DC Rainmaker's smart trainer buyer's guide, check it out. He also has one for smart-trainer apps. It winds up being a deep rabbit hole.

I've got a wheel-off smart trainer (Cycleops Hammer) and a sacrificial bike that lives on it full-time. I think that whole setup cost me about $900, but I was buying the trainer as NOS and got a really good deal on it. If I were starting from scratch, I'd do the same again. I think wheel-off trainers will be quieter, probably more stable, and obviously you don't need to bother with a special trainer tire.

If I ever get the budget, I'll definitely go direct drive. A couple of the European sites look to have the Elite Direto XR for a great price (~$700 shipped and they have the Rizer to go with it for about the same price but aren't shipping that to the US). In the US, the Kickr Core seems to be regarded as probably the top value for what you get.

I don't think a spin bike with speed/cadence will do anything for you. You won't have any sort of way to know if any numbers you make are accurate. If you're just riding for yourself, that may be fine, but you won't be allowed to count in any races and your numbers will just be made up guesses (so you won't even be able to estimate how fast/far you are going). At the very least, get a dumb trainer for which there is a known power curve on Zwift. Your results in races still won't count, but at least you'll be in the ballpark when it comes to seeing how far/fast you are going. If you want to get into power, a dumb trainer and a powermeter (used powertap wheels, used Garmin V3, or Assioma Uno among many other choices) could get you riding in the $5-800 range, but then you're almost at the price of a direct drive smart trainer, so it depends on if you would want the power data while riding outdoors in the future as well.

if it is in your budget for a wheel off trainer then just do that. anything else will be satisfactory on day one and then reality will set in later. especially with some home brew jalopy. if you decide to go wheel on trainer skip the trainer tire. just use old tires. if you are doing 1100mi/mo i'm sure you have plenty of old tires, give them more purpose in life.

i bought my kicker in the summer, gave it a go then shelved it until crappy weather came along. i did a CompuTrainer the winter before and was looking around for a trainer. the kicker came along at a fantastic price, new, prev year model and middle of summer. the stars aligned. you can still find pretty decent wheel off trainers for sale on craig's list from time to time, at least in my area and i am not in a very populated area.

the really cool thing about the smart trainer thing is the control it gives over resistance/grade simulation.

Summer of 2020 I was riding a lot when we were hit by a couple weeks of wildfire smoke. I already had a dumb trainer I didn't use much, so I pulled it out and used it with HR monitor, speed and cadence sensors, and started riding on Zwift, using Zpower. I used the gears to simulate the gradients I was "riding through" - taller gears on the climbs, smaller on descents, basically backwards from what you'd do on the road.

At the end of Fall, I bought a Kick'r Snap wheel-on smart trainer, and it made a HUGE difference! First, I was getting real power readings, rather than a calculated value, which made training easier, especially doing structured workouts. Second, because the trainer adjusts resistance to mimic the virtual terrain, Zwift becomes more involving - you shift like you do on the road, to keep your load and cadence more constant. So, I'd say a smart trainer is definitely a lot better than a spin bike or dumb trainer plus speed and cadence sensors.

As far as wheel on vs direct drive, if I had the funds, I'd go for a direct drive.

If you're doing that kinda mileage, you should not go cheap. You're saying that you average about 1hr 15 minutes riding every day, so if you're going to take that schedule to the "pain cave" then go ahead and invest in what will last for years - and never thinking "I should have gone the good route." Zwift changed my view on riding indoors and finally made it something I *like* to do. And I'm sick of hearing people on other forums (not so much here) complaining how this or that doesn't work for them. Get yourself a Wahoo kickr core (hurry b4 xmas crowd), buy an extra cog set for your particular derailleur, set up a current PC or iPad, and get going. Seriously, what are you saving it for, if not for things like this?

I have a dumb, wheel on trainer (Kinetic Road Machine). It transmits estimated power data via BT, which is pretty darn close to my Stages crank PM. You absolutely can get fitter on a dumb trainer, but the key is intensity and consistency. I do both TrainerRoad and Zwift (often simultaneously: TR for the structured workout and Zwift for distraction). That said, all my friends who have gone to a direct drive smart trainer say that the experience is more immersive and therefore less boring. Plus, it's just super efficient to have the bike on the trainer and all ready to go on a cold and wet winter morning before work. Since we may actually have a wet winter here this year, I'm going to be asking Santa for a Wahoo Kickr or Elite Suito.

Fingers crossed!

I can't justify buying a direct drive trainer, having bought a wheel-on smart trainer last year, at a time when I already had a perfectly serviceable dumb trainer, but I did make up a 'training wheel', so I can stop burning up the GP5000 on the bike I'm using.

My older Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer is easy on tires, I just use my GP5000 tires on it. But I never stand and hammer, so I don't get tire slippage, and I don't need crank down the trainer tire loading. It's good for fairly steady efforts that can be very difficult if I want. Fluid trainers go from very easy pedaling to extreme efforts by shifting gears--fast wheel speeds are exponentially harder, just like outdoor wind resistance.

But I don't use it too often. It's hard for me to be motivated, and I find excuses to stop early too. I'm guessing a Zwift style trainer with controlled resistance for different workouts or virtual group rides could be more compelling.

basing what i see historically for reno i believe we have at least one more dry season. but, but, BUT, this past rain storm gave us more rain than all of the last water year combined. last year was only 3.04 inches, last storm was 3.14 inches. do hope it continues.

That was my experience. I used to LOATH riding the trainer. I could barely manage 40 minutes, with the help of loud rock music, and keeping my cadence and HR up required a lot of concentration, which just wore me out.

I started looking for ride videos on YouTube, and they made it a lot easier, especially the ones with climbs, because I could mimic the climb on my dumb trainer by shifting to taller gears. Ones that also had descents were nice, since they'd give me a rest after the climb. But, yeah, riding on Zwift, or maybe one of the other games out there like Rouvy, is more engaging, because not only does the resistance change with the 'terrain' as it does in real life, but also you control the speed you move at through the terrain.

I used a CycleOps Fluid 2 for my first real year of indoor training and used estimated power for the first few months. I then bought a pair of power meter pedals so I could stop estimating the power and found real power was about 20 lower and also that the estimated power wasn't even accurate against itself as the trainer would warm up and get harder. I could see that when I checked estimated power vs real power one time.

The next year though I bought a Kickr Core and set it up and tweaked it so that the wheel and the trainer were aligned with each other so I never had to make adjustments and was able to swap on and off in 15 seconds. This only mattered because I had Campy and the trainer only supported Shimano at the time. Anyway, the riding experience is so much better. On Zwift I now have to climb the hills, on the Sufferfest I have to put out the power, I can ride any route in Rouvy and really feel it. (I have accounts on all 3 but only keep 2 active at any given time.) I know people like TrainerRoad but I don't need a fourth one. The lesson though was that the wheel off trainer is far superior, and the Kickr Core is probably at the high end but still within your budget. I just checked and they are $899 but you can probably get a discount somewhere, or at least points towards other gear. If nothing else you can get the dividend from REI if you are a member.

I just put the bike on the trainer yesterday and it is unlikely to come off until March, unless we get some tropical weather here in NYC this winter. But that doesn't matter, it only takes seconds to swap anyway.

I have an Elite Ritmo smart wheel on trainer that i bought used 3 or 4 years ago for $250 and then bought a trainer tire to go with it. At first I tried riding on an old steel bike but didn't like how it felt and working with the down tube shifters so I just took my older (2010) road bike and retired it to the trainer and upgraded to something newer for outdoor. No regrets and allows me to continue cycling all through the winter with Zwift.

I think I would consider a direct drive trainer but to be honest, because I don't have to mount and dis mount the bike from the trainer it's super easy. Every couple of weeks, add a bit of air to the tires and away I go.

Another vote for Wahoo Kick'r Core. I mount my bike in 2 minutes or just leave my gravel bike on all winter. The $900 Core is limited to 1800W and 16% grade -- both less than the high-end Kick'r that costs $1200.
It has been a solid machine in the year I've owned mine, and was a great upgrade from my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine.

Good to hear. (I also think it's funny that they have to tell you it's limited to 1800w.)

good that you differentiate between the two. i think a lot of people think the Core is the better of the two. Kicker maxes out a 2000W and 20% grade and is equipped with an 11 spd cassette. the Core has no cassette and is only slightly weaker in the other two specs like you said.

i was lucky to get a new Kicker for $800ish (really can't recall the exact price but it was a steal of a deal). glad i did because all that 2000W riding tires me out after an hour or two.

Pain Cave, fully dedicated to indoor pedaling: Wahoo Kickr, HR monitor, iPad w/ HDMI cable direct to bigscreen TV, 2000Watts of monstrous sound, some fans, a small stand next to the bike for phone, drinks, snacks, etc and a couple towels. Good times, good times...

The real power limitation is when simulating steep gradients at very low cadence. It might be able to generate 1800W of maximum resistance, but that will be with the flywheel spinning flat out. It certainly wouldn't produce anything like that in a low gear pedalling at 50 or 60 rpm. Maximum slope simulation is a better indication of their low end grunt. The Core can manage up to 16%, while the Kickr can go up to 20%. That's not going to be a deal breaker for most people as 16% is probably steep enough. But if you are a heavier rider, you will find that it doesn't actually simulate 16%. The 16% is based off a nominal rider weight and speed (I have no idea what weight and speed they use). So you have to be careful, especially when you start looking at lower spec trainers. Like the Snap can simulate 12%, but that could be reduced to less than 10% for a heavyweight rider.

ok, i'll bite. how does the trainer know you are a heavy weight rider vs a light weight?

It's the software you are using to control the trainer that knows your weight. So if it is simulating say a 10% slope, the software tells the trainer what resistance that equates to for the input rider weight. The heavier the rider, the more resistance power the trainer has to generate to simulate that 10% slope. Looking at it from the rider's perspective, the heavier rider has to output more power than a lighter rider for a given speed on a slope.

Doesn't exist until we see pictures ;)

Does anyone have any experience with the Elite Direto XR? It is on the Kickr Core pricing level (even cheaper if you buy from one of the European sites and don't mind waiting for shipping), but claims to have higher resistance and gradient simulation than the Kickr. At 1.5% claimed it's a bit less accurate than either of them though.

you know this for sure? i wrote a PC based application to control my Kicker (simple intervals and grade simulation) and there is no rider or bike weight that can be sent down to the trainer. the trainer follows the FE-C spec and those are not two parameters used for grade simulation. the only thing used for grade simulation is grade.

i know zwift takes in a rider's weight but i assumed that was strictly for a W/Kg calculation. also, zwift has that feathre called trainer difficulty that alters realism, i suppose they might take weight into consideration too to further hose things up.

i guess it depends on the SW used so i really shouldn't single out zwift.

:eek: