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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

EVlove 02-26-23 06:53 PM

A lot of life in this thread today! I have a minor deal alert and a question.

Challenge Forte 24mm for $36.99 at The Pro's Closet -- I don't need these but what's the general experience with this vendor?

Another question, actually, about mismatched widths front and rear. I picked up a single 23mm Vittoria Rally months ago, cheap, last one in a clearance sale. Thinking about combining it with another Rally but in 25mm for the rear, or should I stick to the same size to complete the set? This wheelset would go on the Bianchi or Lotus for short rides (rarely over 20 miles) from my home. Some really crappy asphalt around here and the Rally is not known to be a soft ride. 155 pound rider here.

Classtime 02-26-23 07:49 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22813323)
In my case, I'm riding Veloflex, but it's more a matter of wanting to stick with a known quality, and not wanting to need to take the rims down to bare metal or change toss tires previously glued with Conti if I patch them.

Once in a while we strip off the old glue anyway and I didn’t notice a difference. Another though…at 70 bucks a can, that glue could be pretty old.

seedsbelize2 02-26-23 09:15 PM

I frequently ride different width tires front and rear. 25 rear; 23 front is common

Drillium Dude 02-27-23 01:10 AM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22813413)

I have a minor deal alert and a question.

Challenge Forte 24mm for $36.99 at The Pro's Closet -- I don't need these but what's the general experience with this vendor?

I haven't used the vendor, but I've experience with Challenge tires - both tubular and open clinchers. Their reputation for self-separating treads - even on brand-new, never used tires - is unfortunately well-earned.

Personally, after receiving an NOS pair with separating treads, I finally gave up on Challenge. In recent years, they've also lowered the maximum pressure for at least two of their models: Elite and Elite Pros both used to be rated from 115-145psi; now the pressure range is down to 95-115psi. This reduction indicates they've chosen to go with a less-robust casing design. Certainly the process used to affix the tread to this casing is lacking in some form or another.

DD

pastorbobnlnh 02-27-23 06:57 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22812906)
Here's a question for the peanut gallery: why the hell is Conti glue so damned expensive these days? My old 350g can for which I payed $25 at my LBS is nearly gone. No matter where I look, it seems they want about $70 for the same thing. While it's been a while since I've purchased glue, the jump in price seems unreasonable to me. The tires themselves have gone up a bit, but by a reasonable amount.

I wonder if it has to do with VOCs? Pretty much everything that used curing evaporative agents back in the day has had to been reformulated to meet current safety standards.

Just think of the cost of a gallon of quality house paint (interior or exterior) and how it has increased from $25-35, 25-30 years ago to $50-75 today.

Now, consider how much paint is produced compared to tubular glue. Plus, the total quantity of paint is probably increasing while those of us using tubular glue is most likely declining.

All this conspires to drive the cost up. Hmmmm--- being a tubular tape guy, I might start hoarding my lifetime supply to beat future inflation!

Drillium Dude 02-27-23 08:02 AM

Any glue-fans interested in two unused/sealed tubes of Tubasti rim cement? Still squishy:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...878feb86a8.png

18 bones, shipped.

They'll go in a small box, so's they arrive in the same condition as pictured.

I prefer tape, so this stuff's up fer grabs :)

Edit: And, hey, if you just want to huff it, who am I to stand in your way? I won't judge!

DD

seedsbelize2 02-27-23 08:35 AM

I will switch to tape, when my last tube of glue runs out. Something that can be carried on an airplane. This stuff cannot, and it's even less available in Mexico than in other parts of the world.

MooneyBloke 02-27-23 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22813767)
Any glue-fans interested in two unused/sealed tubes of Tubasti rim cement? Still squishy:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...878feb86a8.png

18 bones, shipped.

They'll go in a small box, so's they arrive in the same condition as pictured.

I prefer tape, so this stuff's up fer grabs :)

DD

t
I thought that Tubasti had the property of remaining squishy for all time.

Drillium Dude 02-27-23 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22813856)

I thought that Tubasti had the property of remaining squishy for all time.

Perhaps whomever becomes the next 'custodian' of these little gems can put them in lukewarm storage, and get back to us with an update in a decade or two...

DD

Classtime 02-27-23 11:08 AM

I think have a test tube also. 10 years ago, it was all I could find at several LBS. I have been afraid to use it.

SJX426 02-27-23 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22813413)
Challenge Forte 24mm for $36.99 at The Pro's Closet -- I don't need these but what's the general experience with this vendor?

Like DD,.I have Elites. Two of them need repair with tiny holes. My preference is Vittoria Corsa G+. None in the queue for repair with many more miles. Just say'n.

1989Pre 02-27-23 03:42 PM

I got my wheel-builds done and am about to start gluing. How noxious is that glue (I have Continental)? Should I wait till spring and do them outside?

DiabloScott 02-27-23 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22814258)
I got my wheel-builds done and am about to start gluing. How noxious is that glue (I have Continental)? Should I wait till spring and do them outside?

It's not highly volatile stuff - it'll smell a little bit, but less than paint or solvents or fuels. Moderate ventilation would be a good thing, being outside is not necessary... just have your clean-up supplies close at hand. If it's cold, it'll be harder to work with.
Continental is well-behaved, all around good stuff... what I always use.

Dean51 02-27-23 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22814303)
It's not highly volatile stuff - it'll smell a little bit, but less than paint or solvents or fuels. Moderate ventilation would be a good thing, being outside is not necessary... just have your clean-up supplies close at hand. If it's cold, it'll be harder to work with.
Continental is well-behaved, all around good stuff... what I always use.

'Agreed the fumes are not too nasty....at least in my book....and some ventilation is good.

Whether working inside our out, cold glue has been more difficult for me to spread out evenly. I warm it up by placing the glue tube in a container of warm/hot water. Perhaps a quick dip in your morning Starbucks?

Dean

79pmooney 02-27-23 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22814251)
Like DD,.I have Elites. Two of them need repair with tiny holes. My preference is Vittoria Corsa G+. None in the queue for repair with many more miles. Just say'n.

I goat-headed both 28c Corsa G+s I rode last fall at Cycle Oregon. Both responded nicely to an ounce each of Bontranger slime. They got a 2nd ounce each, this time of Orange Seal, last week. Other than that, they've been trouble free. And pretty high up there on the nice to ride scale! Nicest tires the Mooney has seen and it spent it first 20 years on tubbies. (I really like those Corsa G+s! Loved the clinchers and these are just that much better.)

Drillium Dude 02-28-23 01:49 AM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22814251)

...I have Elites. Two of them need repair with tiny holes. My preference is Vittoria Corsa G+. None in the queue for repair with many more miles. Just say'n.

Add me to the Vittoria Corsa G+ fan club! After chasing every which way but loose trying to locate a pair of reliable tubulars for the Davidson, I finally landed on a pair of the Control version, and they've been fantastic! If I had one complaint, it would be that the latex tubes loose air alarmingly fast when compared to your typical butyl tube. Since I prefer running at high pressures, pumping up to full pressure just prior to any ride has become my new normal - but that's okay.

After all, we cyclists need to maintain our upper-body strength, too :)

DD

EVlove 02-28-23 07:43 AM

Thanks all. I was under the impression that Challenge was a better bet than that. Didn't they take over a lot of know-how from Clement? All I know is I spent a good part of this past weekend ripping an old pair of Challenge Grifos off a Ksyrium wheelset I got for cheap from a CX guy--brake tracks worn slightly concave and all*. Took some doing, as he had been liberal with tape and Vittoria Mastik, but the tires didn't give.

But that's neither here nor there, with regard to road tires in the here and now, so good to know. Being Made in Germany myself, I'm partial to Conti, anyway.

*The front wheel is going on my first track bike and the rear may not see actual use at all so should I worry about that brake track wear? I can't seem to find a sectional drawing of the old aluminum tubular rims, only the carbon ones. I'll have to figure out a way to measure the wall thickness at the valve hole, there are no spoke holes in the gluing surface on these.

Drillium Dude 02-28-23 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22814825)

*The front wheel is going on my first track bike and the rear may not see actual use at all so should I worry about that brake track wear?

If the wear is as obvious as you describe, I'd be loathe to use either one - even if neither rim ever contacted a brake shoe again. Photos would help, but when I read 'concave wear', I involuntarily winced :)

Retire them - your beautiful smile will thank you!

DD

smontanaro 02-28-23 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22813634)
Personally, after receiving an NOS pair with separating treads, I finally gave up on Challenge.

Ditto. I bought a couple sets from Velomine a few years ago. They got so many returns that they dropped the brand altogether.

EVlove 02-28-23 10:45 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22814861)
If the wear is as obvious as you describe, I'd be loathe to use either one - even if neither rim ever contacted a brake shoe again. Photos would help, but when I read 'concave wear', I involuntarily winced :)

Retire them - your beautiful smile will thank you!

DD

When I say concave I mean just barely. I can feel it and there's a tiny sliver of daylight against a straightedge. I checked with a 0.5mm dia. drill bit and it's clearly less than that. Considering that the removal of the old rubber by brute force did nothing to it, the rim is apparently still quite solid. But like I said, I'll determine the remaining thickness.

1989Pre 02-28-23 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22814303)
It's not highly volatile stuff - it'll smell a little bit, but less than paint or solvents or fuels. Moderate ventilation would be a good thing, being outside is not necessary... just have your clean-up supplies close at hand. If it's cold, it'll be harder to work with.
Continental is well-behaved, all around good stuff... what I always use.

Thanks. That wasn't bad at all. I got the first layer put on the rims and tires, then just put the air purifier on high and went out for a long walk in the snowstorm. Same process tomorrow.

Drillium Dude 02-28-23 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22815009)

Considering that the removal of the old rubber by brute force did nothing to it, the rim is apparently still quite solid. But like I said, I'll determine the remaining thickness.

Well, I did state a photo could help clarify, but I bow to your judgement if the concavity is measured at less than 1mm. However, having said that, I wouldn't go so far as to judge a rim's strength based upon how well it held up when removing a previously-glued tire.

If you want true peace of mind, you should be able to find sidewall thickness data regarding your specific rim (even stuff from the 70s and 80s is likely to have specs giving that information). Also, in the case of Mavic's SUP rims, their modern offerings have a 'wear indicator' groove in the center of the brake track. When the sidewall is down to the point it's effectively been 'erased', it's time to retire the rim. To my eye, the groove is only a couple millimeters deep, so you might take that into consideration as well as you go forward.

While I'm sure that advice from the manufacturer is one way of ensuring repeat customers, it must also be a case of the same manufacturer not wanting the bad publicity of their rims causing accidents and possible death due to failure of the rim sidewall, and the likely accident which follows.

DD

seedsbelize2 02-28-23 08:24 PM

https://bikerecyclery.com/panaracer-...unts-new-pair/

EVlove 03-01-23 06:49 AM

^^I saw that deal, too, but the wisdom in this thread is that these are to be avoided.

EVlove 03-01-23 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22815031)
If you want true peace of mind, you should be able to find sidewall thickness data regarding your specific rim (even stuff from the 70s and 80s is likely to have specs giving that information). Also, in the case of Mavic's SUP rims, their modern offerings have a 'wear indicator' groove in the center of the brake track. When the sidewall is down to the point it's effectively been 'erased', it's time to retire the rim. To my eye, the groove is only a couple millimeters deep, so you might take that into consideration as well as you go forward.

Still looking to find drawings or specs for these wheels. Any wear indicator is of course gone at this point. I managed to get a measurement at the valve hole that is just under 1mm wall thickness. I will need to repeat the process on both sides and with a better caliper than the cheapo I had at hand (it's plastic but at least it's vintage plastic :lol:) but I'm encouraged for now. 1mm would mean the brake track is not even close to the thinnest portion of the rim. The sections between the spoke holes are machined down starting from 1mm, I think.


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