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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

JimiMimni 02-04-16 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18511223)
Hola sucks. Instead, use Tunnelbear.
Install the Tunnelbear plugin for Chrome.
Turn it on and set it to the UK.
go to youtube.com/ucichannel
find the video you want to watch.
click on it. start it loading
then turn off Tunnelbear (since there is a data limit with it, and you only need it to start streaming)


That's the trick! Cheers!

gycho77 02-04-16 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 18512716)
LBS has the 564s in. They look so cheap..

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...41&oe=5740803B

Are those your team training bikes?
Paint job looks terrible. It looks like a flat drawing.

gtrob 02-04-16 08:00 PM

Those are the new cheaper LOOK frames, I think they retail around 2500US.

Ill have to see one in person, but they are a far cry from the L96 in about every way lol

TrackMonkey7 02-04-16 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18512833)
Paint job looks terrible. It looks like a flat drawing.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the paint on this particular bike, or the LOOK paint job in general which is largely similar if not the same on their other track frames, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_M...ces_in_culture

gycho77 02-04-16 09:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 (Post 18512973)
I'm not sure if you're referring to the paint on this particular bike, or the LOOK paint job in general which is largely similar if not the same on their other track frames, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_M...ces_in_culture

Oh I know his drawing, because I did some art work with his design.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=502715(I cannot upload original file because of the file size)
I don't know why the paint job looks terrible.
I'm guessing it's because of black lines in middle(not referring lines between different colors)

Dalai 02-04-16 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 18512716)
LBS has the 564s in. They look so cheap..

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...41&oe=5740803B

I'd still ride one.

gycho77 02-05-16 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 18513172)
I'd still ride one.

haha no one hates free bike

carleton 02-05-16 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18513827)
haha no one hates free bike

Ever wonder why sponsored riders sell their free bikes soon after their contract is up?

When you are barreling through turns 3-4 and your seatpost drops an inch, you'll hate a free bike :D

dunderhi 02-05-16 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18514356)
Ever wonder why sponsored riders sell their free bikes soon after their contract is up?

When you are barreling through turns 3-4 and your seatpost drops an inch, you'll hate a free bike :D

I still have and ride/race one of my free bikes... 33yrs later and the same is true for a couple of my teammates. Those Schwinn Paramounts seemingly last forever.

gycho77 02-05-16 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18514356)
Ever wonder why sponsored riders sell their free bikes soon after their contract is up?

When you are barreling through turns 3-4 and your seatpost drops an inch, you'll hate a free bike :D

But.... but free bikes are awesome lol

As you know I never experienced with sponsored bikes.
So I don't know how they perform.

My neighbor, retired track cyclist, told me that the sponsored bike(Cannondale Aluminum) broke several times and carbon frames had problems with headset and BB.
If the current sponsored bike don't suffer this problems, I will be happy with the free bike haha

JimiMimni 02-05-16 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18514356)
Ever wonder why sponsored riders sell their free bikes soon after their contract is up?

When you are barreling through turns 3-4 and your seatpost drops an inch, you'll hate a free bike :D

I thought it was because they didn't get paid for that season. Heh

gycho77 02-06-16 10:04 PM

http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream...=1&isAllowed=y
Everyone will know about aerodynamic of trck cycling, but if you are interested in data, start reading the research from page 228.

gycho77 02-06-16 10:15 PM

Most affordable powermeter in the market
PRECISION - 4iiii Innovations

Dalai 02-06-16 10:51 PM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18517665)
http://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream...=1&isAllowed=y
Everyone will know about aerodynamic of trck cycling, but if you are interested in data, start reading the research from page 249.

If you find that journal article interesting, there is that study plus more journal articles in - http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...-articles.html


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18517677)
Most affordable powermeter in the market
PRECISION - 4iiii Innovations

Like Stages it is only left leg power only.
No mention if compatible with track cranks - only road and MTB cranks in the compatibility list.

gycho77 02-06-16 10:54 PM


Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 18517718)
If you find that journal article interesting, there is that study plus more journal articles in - http://www.bikeforums.net/track-cycl...-articles.html



Like Stages it is only left leg power only.
No mention if compatible with track cranks - only road and MTB cranks in the compatibility list.

Awesome! I never knew their was thread about this.

One of us could ask 4iiii about track crank use.:)

Koogar 02-06-16 11:35 PM


Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 18517718)
No mention if compatible with track cranks - only road and MTB cranks in the compatibility list.

I asked about Dura Ace compatibility some time back and they couldn't confirm one way or another but were not optimistic. Seems like that hasn't changed.

carleton 02-07-16 12:52 AM

I could "measure" your power output by watching your effort. That doesn't mean it's precise, accurate, or repeatable.

Just because it has the words "Power" and "Meter" in the product name doesn't necessarily mean it does what you think it does.

dunderhi 02-07-16 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18517822)
I could "measure" your power output by watching your effort. That doesn't mean it's precise, accurate, or repeatable.

Just because it has the words "Power" and "Meter" in the product name doesn't necessarily mean it does what you think it does.

Are you words of warning for all power meters, crank arm power meters, or 4iiii's power meter?


Does anyone know if the 4iiii power meter is a supply your own crank-arm business model. I ask this since there doesn't seem to be price differentiation for the Shimano 105 vs. the Dura Ace.

Banchad 02-07-16 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by dunderhi (Post 18518247)
Are you words of warning for all power meters, crank arm power meters, or 4iiii's power meter?


Does anyone know if the 4iiii power meter is a supply your own crank-arm business model. I ask this since there doesn't seem to be price differentiation for the Shimano 105 vs. the Dura Ace.

Yeah you have to supply your own kit.

Dalai 02-07-16 02:35 PM

Was designed with the intention you could self install, but at the moment you need to send in your left crank arm for a factory installation...

carleton 02-07-16 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by dunderhi (Post 18518247)
Are you words of warning for all power meters, crank arm power meters, or 4iiii's power meter?


Does anyone know if the 4iiii power meter is a supply your own crank-arm business model. I ask this since there doesn't seem to be price differentiation for the Shimano 105 vs. the Dura Ace.

Just in general. Making a power meter of any sort seems to be a way to make easy money in the road cycling world.

Remember, there is a Power Meter that measures wind and calculates the power output :D

dunderhi 02-07-16 04:45 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18519133)
Remember, there is a Power Meter that measures wind and calculates the power output :D

I'm new too all of this power training stuff, so I wasn't aware.

carleton 02-07-16 10:31 PM


Originally Posted by dunderhi (Post 18519150)
I'm new too all of this power training stuff, so I wasn't aware.

Most cycling power meters assume that you are a road cyclist riding for 2-4 hours/ride and you want to know long-term data. That's why their sampling rates are every 1 or 2 seconds. A lot of things get averaged out in that many data points.

Track events are (obviously) much shorter. So, you want more accurate data more often. This is why the SRM is the gold standard for track. It samples (or used to) as fast as twice per second, for the not tech folks. So for a Flying 200 or 1K, you get a lot better sets of data than you would with others.

Also, I don't like the 1 crank arm power meters. Yeah, on the road, you can assume that the output will average out. But, on the track, during a standing start, you are getting half of the data.

If you can afford it, get a PM that measures from the crank spider.

I'm not sure what the word is on pedal power meters these days. Are they getting better? On paper, they are superior to crank spider PMs because they are closer to the source of the power (your legs) and they are measuring left and right data independently. Plus they are easy to swap to other bikes.

taras0000 02-07-16 11:02 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18519821)
Also, I don't like the 1 crank arm power meters. Yeah, on the road, you can assume that the output will average out. But, on the track, during a standing start, you are getting half of the data.

SRM is a one crank PM. What's the difference if you measure at the crank or spider? Hub based in theory should be the most accurate. Also lots of room to house internals, therefore more complex computer, therefore higher sampling rate.

Crank based ones to allow you to use any wheel you want.

carleton 02-08-16 02:59 AM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18519869)
SRM is a one crank PM. What's the difference if you measure at the crank or spider? Hub based in theory should be the most accurate. Also lots of room to house internals, therefore more complex computer, therefore higher sampling rate.

Crank based ones to allow you to use any wheel you want.

Actually, it isn't. You can separate the two crank arms and the BB from the spider. It's a 4 piece crankset.

The right crank arm mates with the spider with 3-4 screws (depending on your model):

http://store.srm.de/media/catalog/pr.../1/5/159_3.jpg
http://store.srm.de/media/catalog/pr.../1/5/159_2.jpg

But, I see what you mean. The left crank arm moves torque through the bottom bracket then over to the right crank arm which then turns the spider.

(these aren't exactly track parts, but they work for the illustration)

SRM Crank arms:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5122/5...a7732e53cd.jpg

Plus bottom bracket:
http://www.velodromeshop.net/images/...bktshi2700.jpg

Plus SRM spider:
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/...p82-500-70.jpg

Equal: SRM Power Meter

Dalai 02-08-16 06:21 AM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18519869)
SRM is a one crank PM. What's the difference if you measure at the crank or spider?

Sensors on the left crank only deforms the strain gauges when pressure is applied to the left pedal. With the sensors on the spider, pressure on both pedals deform the strain gauges on the the spider - hence measures deflection from both pedals.

Crank arm photo on the scales is my photo Carleton :)

Banchad 02-08-16 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18519821)
If you can afford it, get a PM that measures from the crank spider.

I can't, so I'm making one(for my dissertation).

carleton 02-08-16 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 18520077)
Crank arm photo on the scales is my photo Carleton :)

Wow...the internet is a small world :D


Originally Posted by Banchad (Post 18520093)
I can't, so I'm making one(for my dissertation).

Good luck! Can you talk about it? What style? Where are you placing the strain gauges?

taras0000 02-09-16 12:18 AM


Originally Posted by Dalai (Post 18520077)
Sensors on the left crank only deforms the strain gauges when pressure is applied to the left pedal. With the sensors on the spider, pressure on both pedals deform the strain gauges on the the spider - hence measures deflection from both pedals.

Crank arm photo on the scales is my photo Carleton :)

This just brought about a big face-palm for me. It's so obvious. I don't understand how I didn't figure this out myself. Frankly it's just as accurate as a hub based PM, it just doesn't take into account the minimal losses from the chain.

carleton 02-09-16 01:07 AM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18522476)
This just brought about a big face-palm for me. It's so obvious. I don't understand how I didn't figure this out myself. Frankly it's just as accurate as a hub based PM, it just doesn't take into account the minimal losses from the chain.

Yup. And it can be argued that being that because the crank spider is closer to the legs than the chain is in the system, then you are getting a better measurement of what the rider is doing because it's getting measured before the chain stretches and absorbs some of the torque.

This is why SRM is considered better than PowerTap (measures at the hub). This is also why the promise of pedal sensors was so high, because they were closer to the body than crank arm, chainring spiders, and hubs as a measuring point.

Then there was the PM that measured in the cleat.

I think the cleat is as close as you can get and reliably measure force in 2 directions (downstroke and upstroke).

The Power Meter shoe could work. But it would be undermined by the straps that sprinters use. Because when you use straps, the force added is applied to the bottom of the pedal. Not sure how a shoe power meter could measure that.


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