S&S couplings
 

Has anyone converted an existing frame to include S&S couplings? The upside for me would be for ease of travel but I am curious as to comments on the effects of ride quality etc. The downsides..

The frame I am thinking about converting is a Lynskey R230.

List of people who actually do the retrofit work may be more to the point than getting a peer group saying yes I have ,

Framebuilder List For S and S Machine Bicycle Torque Couplings (BTCs) (Includes Lynskey)

as that has been stated here, and elsewhere, before... that people have done that .. steel bike frames ..

Reading the Site you will probably have to sell your Ti Framed bike and Buy a New Ti one (or strip it and buy That different frame)

already built with the SandS coupler from the Get-Go. Titanium BTC Specifications

G'day Jdon,
Aren't Lynsey bikes Ti?
You might need someone who specialises with the material, or not, depending on the bonding process and cutting.
Letting other forum members know your approx location, you might get a recommendation or two.
Have a peruse at the mtbr.com forums where I've seen coupler threads a few times from memory:
Search Results
I seem to remember the S&S site offering up international recommended installers

Not a retrofit, but I recently started riding a bike with S & S couplers. Since it came that way, I can't really give a before-and-after comparison, but I would say that I don't notice anything about it when I ride that calls attention to the couplers.

It's only been a week, so that's hardly time to give it a full endorsement, but the S & S coupler site says that in their tests the couplers end up being stronger than the frame they replace. I haven't seen anything that makes me doubt that.

Thanks guys, great info. Both the Manufacturer and the shop I would have do the work are on the S&S list. The modifications would be done by True North Cycles and they have stated the frame will be a little stiffer but not noticeably.

I just fear destroying my favourite bike. :) Maybe this is a good time for a custom frame.

I hear that. But for my part, I found myself traveling with a folding bike that, while serviceable, was not the bike I would have chosen to ride on those trips. I took some out-of-state bike-camping trips and left my touring bike at home, which seemed a shame. For me the point of getting an S & S bike was so that I could have the bike I loved to ride even when I was away from home.

Of course a custom frame could also be that bike.

I have an S&S coupled steel Waterford.

A few things to consider. If you have a larger frame size, you need to make sure the coupled bike will fit in the box. Mine is a 59cm, so I have to remove the fork and the cranks in addition to the standard dis-assembly. Takes about 10 minutes longer.

Most frame builders don't like to do retro fits, some refuse to. It is less precise than doing new. That is because on a new build, they put in the couplers before they cut and miter the tubes, thus it assembles exactly as if no couplers are there. On a retrofit, the tubing is cut and the couplers are welded in. They are very precise, but never as precise as the former method.

If I were in your situation, I would consider selling my existing frame and getting Lynskey to build a custom S&S coupled bike that rides like a R230. They will be more than capable of doing that.

I have an S&S True North bike. Hugh did an excellent job with the frame. It was not a retrofit, so I can't give a before-after comparison, but I can vouch for his craftsmanship.

I also want to add that disassembling, packing, and reassembling an S&S bike is a major chore, mostly due to the difficulty of packing the frame into the case. If you have a larger frame, or have a longer fork steerer as my bike does, you'll likely have to remove the crankset and bottle cages for the "jigsaw" to fit. I find it takes more than twice as long to pack/unpack my S&S bike, as compared to using a full size bike case.

I would only opt for S&S if you fly frequently enough with your bike that the cost savings become significant. In my opinion, to ease of handling a small case is in itself not sufficient reason for getting S&S couplings. The effort you save at the airport is more than offset by the time spent packing the bike. Ultimately, this is a decision only you yourself can make, while considering the cost of the retrofit, your planned frequency of tours, and how many years it would take to recoup the cost, etc.

Finally, if you opt for the soft backpack case instead of the hard case, you have the advantage of a collapsible bike case that can be cheaply shipped between your tour start and finish locations. This is the case I use and my bike has survived many flights just fine. I find this ease of shipping extremely handy.

Hope that help.

Good advice, especially since there are shipping services like Bikeflights.com that offer significant discounts over many/most airline bike fees. I live in Philly. Bilenky is a 25 min. drive from my house. I though about getting couplers but I cannot justify it economically because I fly with my bike maybe once/year. I went to Rapid City, SD in June. Shipping my large 60cm LHT and racks in a Crateworks box was something like
$47 each way for four-day shipping, and that was at an overestimated weight of 60 lbs. IIRC, my airline wanted $150 each way. I have taken to shipping to shops. I can have my bike professionally packed, shipped, reassembled and tuned at the destination for about what the airline charges to fly the bike. Plus, the shops will hold your box for you.

I actually do very little airline flying with my bike. I do fly a corporate jet and while it has plenty of baggage space, I don't like tying too much of it up with my own gear. The bike is a 56cm so not overly large. The hassle factor of disassembly/assembly though may be an influencing factor.

Depending on your needs/goals, it might still have value. One factor in my decision, apart from the couple of flights a year I would like to take a bike on, is general portability locally, or local-ish. Meet my wife for dinner somewhere, and odds are good that I have my bike and she has her car. No bike rack for the car, so then we go our separate ways and meet back at home. Couplers mean that I can fit the bike into her hatchback without much fuss. No need for complete disassembly, just split and fold so that everything can fit. If you have access to baggage space, but don't want to hog it, the couplers may still help lower the footprint of your bike.

But, yes, like Yan says, you have to take a number of commercial flights before it actually pays off. Of course that's assuming that getting couplers is a financial decision. For me it was financial and convenience. Break down and build up will have its challenges, I'm sure, but I was already doing that with my folding bike. I'm expecting/hoping for an easier time of it with the coupler bike. Not that there aren't folding bikes that pack and unpack fairly well, but mine is not one of those.

I think there are some options for working with non-round tubes, but everything about S&S makes the appear better if you choose a frame with round tubes, at least at the point where you choose to put the couplers.

That may affect your choice of frames to retrofit.

taking both wheels off and strapping them along side the frame which also has had the fork removed
and seat post out and bars also packed along side
does reduce the packed size .. stuffing in a dropout spread 'keeper' in fork and back is highly recommended.

seen here
https://janheine.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=640&h=629

I wrote an article about my 10 years of experience owning, traveling with, and riding an S&S coupled bike. The bike in question is a steel Waterford Adventure Cycle. I bought it with the S&S couplers installed.

Something you may consider before buying...
If you fly to and from the same airport on your trips the S&S couplers are fairly likely to save you money. Business travel is typically that way. The thing is that I find that I never fly to and from the same airport when touring. So I would need to ship the case to the end of the tour or use cardboard boxes, and the cardboard boxes need to be a very specific size. So for me the couplers would never pay for themselves.

Also I have found that for various reasons I have not toured on the same bike for all of my tours. I went from fairly heavy touring to touring with a very light load of ultralight backpacking gear, so I switched to a lighter sportier bike. I also did some tours where I wanted a more trail specific bike. So I'd have needed to equip three different bikes with couplers. None of that may apply to you, but it is worth thinking about before buying an expensive conversion.

I find my S&S bike frame is just as solid as I could want it to be. It is a heavy expedition bike, so if the S&S couplers were weak, they would be the weakest part of a very robust frame.

Most people buy their S&S bikes new, not retrofit, but there are a few on this forum that have had frames retrofitted.

If I owned a custom made Ti bike and wanted to add S&S later, I would contact the original builder and proceed from there.

A couple days ago I saw a guy riding a beautiful Ti frame bike with S&S. Looked very sharp. No decals, so I asked, his bike was made by Seven.

There have been other posts about this same question (I have replied to at least one), so you may want to do a search.

I have a steel frame (a Robert Beckman), which I had couplers added to by Bilenky, and I am quite happy. As has been pointed out, getting all the parts inside a suitable box is quite an exercise in geometry, but escaping the $150 airline charge is worth it to me (plus the box is a lot easier to fit in a car, etc). I didn't notice any difference in handling.

S & S retrofit can be done on Ti frames but doesn't R230 have custom-shape tubes? AFAIK S & S only goes on round tubes. Apart from that, traveling with an S & S-equipped Ti road bike could be pretty fun & simple since road bikes are easier to break down/pack. You have the option to use a hard case since you won't be pushing airline weight limit. Bilenky did S & S retrofit to my Surly Disc Trucker, quite a hassle to learn exact way to pack.

Couplers themselves are fool-proof & easy, added weight is amazingly small (though one has to carry the coupler tool also). Don't affect handling or ride that I can see.

Notes I'm seeing indicate that oval tubes can be converted, but it is unclear how they're doing it. Apparently on some frames the critical sections are made round.

Here is the pricelist for retrofitting by Ti Cycles in Portland including notes on oval tubes.
http://ticycles.com/TCF/pricelist-sands.pdf

You may well save some dough if you can find a used frame with the couplers already installed.

For example, in Titanium:
Seven Cycles Axiom Travel Bike 59cm | eBay

TiCycles in Portland, OR routinely S & S couples bikes. both new and existing, He does it for several high end frame builders, both steel and ti. They send the complete frame, TiCycles cuts and couples them and sends them back. Two of the ti builders they couple for are considered among the very best, so I don't think that andr0id's concerns (posted above) should bother you.

I am a regular visitor at the TiCycles shop and get to drool over some of the frames they get to saw apart!

Edit: call TiCycles. They can probably tell you over the phone if they can couple your oval tubes.

Ben

In my experience couplers on a touring bike with 700c wheels are a questionable investment. It may be necessary to remove the tire from the rims to fit in a box that meet airline size criteria. Also the racks have to be removed, and packed separately.

I had couplers installed when my wife's custom frame was being built. We have flown with the bike as well as shipped it several times, and only uncoupled it once to meet FedEx size requirements. It did save $100 that time.

I thought about a custom bike for myself, and am not sure I'd have it built with couplers.

This is something I do all the time. I assemble the bike, put all my packing gear into the now empty case, go to a UPS store, and ship the box to my destination. I ship to a friend or family member, hotel, or a warmshower/couchsurfing host. In the US, the cost is usually in $40 range.

This is absolutely true. It is one of the things I dislike about reassembling my bike after travel in its box. It is the main reason I am very careful what tires I ride on. They have to be easy to mount! However, this isn't a showstopper for me. It's mounting two tires on rims, not the end of the world.

If I have to fly with rear racks, I am likely taking more gear than I can pack into a carry-on case, requiring me to take a duffle bag, as well. In these instances, having to pack the racks separately is not a big deal. On my recent tour in Italy, I found a front rack that can be packed in my bike case and was able to get all my (non-metal) gear in my carry-on. So, it is doable. I wrote an article about my experience getting down to and touring with so little weight.

Judging by how few seem to come up for resale it would appear that most of those who've gotten the couplers are very happy with the ownership.
I've failed to find a local company to do the work but I'm still interested in getting my own bike a set.

My wife and I are currently in Poland heading for the Czech Republic. We started in Copenhagen and will end in Amsterdam. We camp when we can, and have experienced temperatures ranging from a wet 50F to over 100F. The point is that we need clothing to cover a lot of conditions and situations. When we travel by air, we pack the bike boxes right up to the 50 pound limit most airlines allow. We then have a duffle bag as checked luggage, our rack packs as carry on, and our bar bags. We carry 25 to 35 pounds. However, on parts of this tour we carried 5 liters of water and extra food at times, upping the weight. Also the cobbles and sett stone surfaced roads and trails, dirt roads, and poor pavement made our regular touring bikes the right tool. The point is, if I would have used the couplers on my wife's bike they would have had marginal utility in this situation.

I believe that the couplers may work well for light credit card type touring using a bike without fenders and minimal rack, or just a bare road bike.