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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

cudak888 01-03-23 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22747588)
Thanks Mike and Neal - I suspect, based on some more reading I've done on the S5.1, is that "super low" or first gear was a persistent problem with the original double shifter and also with the trigger shifter. SA had issues with this hub in its various editions.

I'm wondering if I should try one of those modern Sturmey thumb/bar end shifters - it would likely be a lot stronger/hold the cable in tight suspension versus the weak trigger shifter 'indexing'

Maybe I'll try and find one. I'd rather not open up the hub at this point since the bike is my winter commuter, and low (2nd gear) is more than enough for the small hills I encounter on my ride.

While it won't do a thing about the left hand shifting, you might also want to look into the Sturmey-Archer S30 trigger shifter for the 3-speed side of things. I've been very pleased with mine:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a189cc8a5.jpg

Pic is old - hadn't hooked it up here. Yet.

-Kurt

thumpism 01-04-23 06:28 PM

Local flipper (whom I call "white truck guy") has this neat one for $300.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...16880587133158

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Jw&oe=63BBA730

Ged117 01-04-23 07:00 PM

Hey all, Happy New Year. Somebody had a 26 x 1 3/8 wheel for sale here with a 'frozen hub' and I picked it up thinking I might find a good parts source.

Here's what I got:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1a78b97a_h.jpgPXL_20230104_195409565

A '53 dated AW laced to a Raleigh rim with the raised matte centre, and 'R' branded stainless spokes (or at least, I think they are). The hub was indeed frozen, with the driver only moving back and forth a little when inserted into the clutch. I thought, oh boy, this thing must be rust city inside if the staining of the bearing spaces is any indication. I applied PB Blaster liberally and it started to wakeup, and now I can hear one or two pawls ticking. I'm hoping to remove the assembly from the shell and take it down to the sun gear for a cleaning and inspection of the mechs, fresh bearings, and rebuild. I was thinking of sending my 1980 S5.1 to Rat City bikes in Seattle for a rebuild because its slipping in super low (they specialize in IGH services, and they make their own shift cables to avoid the pinch bolt!), but if I can do the full job on this AW, I should be able to manage on the S5.1, though I may need parts. Once back up to snuff, I'm planning on running this AW wheel on the Triumph while I do the same job for the S5.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...70f6ecb1_h.jpgPXL_20230104_195357949

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...42a2312b_h.jpgPXL_20230104_195416740

oldspokes 01-05-23 02:01 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22758374)
Local flipper (whom I call "white truck guy") has this neat one for $300.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...16880587133158

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Jw&oe=63BBA730

It may be just the angle of the photo but that thing looks like its had a front end collision, I see some deflection around the top lug to top tube joint and the forks look slightly rearward.
Otherwise its an interesting ride.
With that frame style, and what looks to be steel rims, I wonder if it has either 28 x 1 1/2" rather than 700C wheels? I don't recall seeing many steel 700c rims over the years.

I've run into a few Dutch built bikes that were similar, one a burgundy colored, Union badged bike that looked similar but sans the rubber fender end and modern saddle.
The bike I had here was too far gone to fix but I saved the fenders, rear rack, CG, bars, and other small parts but its wheels and hubs were trashed, both had loose right side spoke flanges, and both rims, (28"), were rusted through. The rims however were an odd rounded profile with spoke dimples with Semperit 28x1 1/2" Super Elite branded tires.
I happened on that bike over 20 years ago in a huge lot that I bought up in NY. I've yet to find another just like it, but that same lot of bikes and parts also included several of the same headbadges and several more of the same style drum brake hub with similarly damaged flanges.

cudak888 01-05-23 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by oldspokes (Post 22758626)
It may be just the angle of the photo but that thing looks like its had a front end collision, I see some deflection around the top lug to top tube joint and the forks look slightly rearward.

Could be, but the fender on the Chevy 1500 is also distorted.

The toe overlap clearance does look minimal though, so I wouldn't put it past it for having crinkles behind the headlugs and below the fork crown. Given that this will be a hi-ten frame though, it'll probably pull out with cold setting and show no evidence once straightened, provided it is done properly.

-Kurt

thumpism 01-05-23 06:03 PM

Unusual yellow Sports Special for $25 in NJ.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...62617397496913

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...xw&oe=63BCF6D5

Ged117 01-05-23 08:18 PM

I soaked a rusted, partially seized 1953 AW from the Pacific Northwest (seller was located in BC's lower mainland) in PB Blaster for a day or so and tried the hammer and punch to crack it open. It took some whacks, but the penetrant did its work and it started to loosen up and I removed the assembly for inspection. I think all of the internal rust is the result of operating through the decades in a very damp environment, and the lower mainland of British Columbia definitely qualifies as damp, humid in winter, rainy - without regular service internals and drops of oil, I think rust up inside an IGH is inevitable. A little work and it spilled its guts! Looks to have never been serviced, with the bits and bobs of original grease hardened into chalky gunk.

As is often reported elsewhere for this era of Sturmey Archer hub gear, there are no indications of wear on any of the internal parts after a good scrubbing. I expected some worn parts, as the hub (given the state of the wheel), must have thousands (maybe tens of thousands?) of kilometers under its belt after 70 years. I know what you're thinking - did he drop a pawl spring? - yes, I did, but I found it!

I'm going to clean up the wheel as best I can, install the bearings and fresh marine grease, apply some synthetic oil on a few moving parts as per instructions, and put it back together. Its going into service on my '64 Triumph while the S5 is out of commission for its own inspection and rebuild.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6e06342f_b.jpgPXL_20230106_000729017

Ged117 01-05-23 08:47 PM

I thought you folks might find this interesting - a '50s Raleigh for sale locally. If it had been the men's model, I'd already be meeting the seller...look at that blue! I've only ever seen this colour in period advertisements as posted by a few keepers of the flame in this forum. Nice bike - complete with the B66L, the Superbe lamps, AG hub...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8469829da9.jpg

Macguyver909 01-05-23 08:58 PM

Ged117, For what it's worth, Sturmey Archer asks that you replace the 4 pawl springs at every service. In the couple that I have worked on there was a difference in the spring tension, before and after. The best deal I found for springs was a 10 pack from SJS cycles in the UK. Takes a couple of weeks for shipping though.

SirMike1983 01-06-23 07:47 AM

A tired pawl spring is certainly one place to look if you have a slipping hub and simpler repairs like cleaning or the various external adjustments to the hub and shifter will not solve it. And all the more so if the hub hasn't been serviced in 50+ years. But I will admit I think replacing all 4 springs at every service if the hub is working is a bit much. I can see it as a preventative measure if the hub is ridden every day as a commuter in all conditions, or ridden a lot and on very long rides, but it seems like a lot of replacing springs to me for a vintage bike that is more sparingly ridden. My two cents at least when working on these hubs.

Ged117 01-06-23 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22759739)
A tired pawl spring is certainly one place to look if you have a slipping hub and simpler repairs like cleaning or the various external adjustments to the hub and shifter will not solve it. And all the more so if the hub hasn't been serviced in 50+ years. But I will admit I think replacing all 4 springs at every service if the hub is working is a bit much. I can see it as a preventative measure if the hub is ridden every day as a commuter in all conditions, or ridden a lot and on very long rides, but it seems like a lot of replacing springs to me for a vintage bike that is more sparingly ridden. My two cents at least when working on these hubs.

Both of my bikes with Sturmey hubs are ridden a lot, and the road bike for long distances. The roadster is an all-year-round commuter, so I will replace the springs while I have the hubs apart this time around. Thanks for the recommendations everyone.

Edit: I just realized that two pawl springs are missing - the ones for the planetary gearset assembly, and that the clutch spring and cap are missing too. I think this hub was used as a parts source to keep another hub going.

thumpism 01-06-23 06:16 PM

Puch Vitesse non-folder.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...22097229873164

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...rQ&oe=63BE3BDB

clubman 01-06-23 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22759475)
I thought you folks might find this interesting - a '50s Raleigh for sale locally. If it had been the men's model, I'd already be meeting the seller...look at that blue! I've only ever seen this colour in period advertisements as posted by a few keepers of the flame in this forum. Nice bike - complete with the B66L, the Superbe lamps, AG hub...

Looks like the Humber blue from the mid late 50's

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f464dae5b.jpg

clubman 01-06-23 09:04 PM

I'd think it's CF9...Royal Blue, fitting for the Aristocrat of bikes


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1e9ce09ad.jpg

oldspokes 01-07-23 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22759739)
A tired pawl spring is certainly one place to look if you have a slipping hub and simpler repairs like cleaning or the various external adjustments to the hub and shifter will not solve it. And all the more so if the hub hasn't been serviced in 50+ years. But I will admit I think replacing all 4 springs at every service if the hub is working is a bit much. I can see it as a preventative measure if the hub is ridden every day as a commuter in all conditions, or ridden a lot and on very long rides, but it seems like a lot of replacing springs to me for a vintage bike that is more sparingly ridden. My two cents at least when working on these hubs.

I've had dozens of SA hubs apart over the years and I've rarely found bad or obviously weak springs in 'working' hubs. I have found rusty, broken springs in hubs that were all but seized or found outdoors. I generally only replace a spring if its obviously damaged or worn in some way. I do tend to 'reset' them a bit if they feel soft.
Failure wise, I've seen more chewed up pinion gears or worn planet gear pins then broken springs over the years.

Ged117 01-07-23 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22760497)
I'd think it's CF9...Royal Blue, fitting for the Aristocrat of bikes


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1e9ce09ad.jpg

This is cool. I can't imagine there are many '50s Raleighs wearing rarer colours left, other than black and maybe green. I saw a Sports wearing CF7 for sale last year - the seller wanted way too much

Ged117 01-07-23 08:08 AM

This Robin Hood is posted locally, looks to be have been in a crash. I asked the seller about it, but they're ignoring me, trying to cash in on a 'vintage bike' that has been sitting and needs pretty much everything serviced to be ridden.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc97a8c8ab.jpg

markk900 01-07-23 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22760725)
This is cool. I can't imagine there are many '50s Raleighs wearing rarer colours left, other than black and maybe green. I saw a Sports wearing CF7 for sale last year - the seller wanted way too much

My 1949 (or 50?) Humber was also that blue.....very fragile paint as it appeared to have been applied over top of the normal glass black. I repainted it in as close to the same colour as I could.

markk900 01-07-23 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22760732)
This Robin Hood is posted locally, looks to be have been in a crash. I asked the seller about it, but they're ignoring me, trying to cash in on a 'vintage bike' that has been sitting and needs pretty much everything serviced to be ridden.

$250 for a clearly crashed bike is a bit of a stretch, given the servicing it will need. The serial number (32635RC) and the brazed on pulley mount sort of point to later 50s; too bad the seller didn't show the hub. Chainring is interesting and I wonder if the dynohub works?

cudak888 01-07-23 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22760732)
This Robin Hood is posted locally, looks to be have been in a crash. I asked the seller about it, but they're ignoring me, trying to cash in on a 'vintage bike' that has been sitting and needs pretty much everything serviced to be ridden.

I assume it's not priced well, right?

There is, of course, the approach of showing up with cash and then mentioning the damage. But if they're trying to ask top dollar and are also ignoring the fact that someone's pointing out it has damage, well, those people can't be reasoned with.

-Kurt

Ged117 01-07-23 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 22760855)
My 1949 (or 50?) Humber was also that blue.....very fragile paint as it appeared to have been applied over top of the normal glass black. I repainted it in as close to the same colour as I could.

Not unlike my 1950 Superbe that Kurt now owns - the green paint was a little fragile, revealing the tough-as-nails black enamel underneath.


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 22760867)
$250 for a clearly crashed bike is a bit of a stretch, given the servicing it will need. The serial number (32635RC) and the brazed on pulley mount sort of point to later 50s; too bad the seller didn't show the hub. Chainring is interesting and I wonder if the dynohub works?

It is a really interesting example, with classic '50s Canadian market paint. If its later 1950s, it might have the SW - my wife's '56 Sports came with an SW that worked but was a little finicky for her to shift, so I switched it out for an AW wheel. More often than not the dynohubs are in working condition, and its usually a wiring issue preventing the lamps from doing their thing.


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22760870)
I assume it's not priced well, right?

There is, of course, the approach of showing up with cash and then mentioning the damage. But if they're trying to ask top dollar and are also ignoring the fact that someone's pointing out it has damage, well, those people can't be reasoned with.

-Kurt

I'm interested in the bike (I have a spare Raleigh fork that would work, albeit in a different colour; I could also try straightening the damaged front fork), but not at anywhere near the $250 that they are asking. Their manners as a seller aren't great either - I asked about the collision damage and no response tells me they don't want to hear it.

dweenk 01-07-23 11:12 AM

Raleigh Choppers
 
Found this article at "The Guardian".
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-chopper-rides

barnfind 01-08-23 05:04 AM

Found these in a box from a recent clean out:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23884c656f.jpg
They were covered in cosmoline and wrapped in brown paper in a wooden box marked Made in England.
They are 'lightly chromed' at best, with limited coverage around the crown area. They appear to have been meant to be partially painted.
The fork blades are 14" long, the steer tube is 8" (203mm) long, they appear to be universal replacement forks as they are threaded long enough to be cut down to fit either a 21 or 23" frame size.
The dropouts are stamped, with a single fender attachment point.
I was told the place closed in 1970 and had signage for Raleigh, Royal Enfield, Rollfast, Mossberg, and Philips.

JohnDThompson 01-08-23 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 22761760)
The fork blades are 14" long, the steer tube is 8" (203mm) long, they appear to be universal replacement forks as they are threaded long enough to be cut down to fit either a 21 or 23" frame size.
The dropouts are stamped, with a single fender attachment point.
I was told the place closed in 1970 and had signage for Raleigh, Royal Enfield, Rollfast, Mossberg, and Philips.

Standard 24tpi thread, or Raleigh 26tpi thread?

barnfind 01-09-23 12:12 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22761896)
Standard 24tpi thread, or Raleigh 26tpi thread?

Just checked them, they have 24tpi threads.

A few of them are stamped Royal Enfield, a few are plain with only a few un-legible numbers written on the steer tube.
All were dipped in heavy brown cosmoline which I washed off with mineral spirits on a rag.
They appear to have been dipped in it as the fork tubes and steer tube appear to also be full of the stuff.
I have one soaking in a parts wash tank to completely remove the stuff.
The box they were in was in rough shape. At first sight I sort of just figured it was an old military box from something.
It appears that it was being used as a step to reach the top shelf for years. It was still nailed shut and almost got left behind.
It was made completely of 1/2" thick wood planks nailed together, no plywood, no sealing or special joinery.
Each fork was coated in cosmoline and wrapped separately, every three were wrapped again were wrapped together.
The paper, inside of the box and forks were saturated with the hard waxy grease and the box seams were stained with it from where it
had seeped through over the years.


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