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-   -   JohnnyNerdOut ? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1242814)

Lastmohecken 11-24-21 08:23 PM

JohnnyNerdOut ?
 
Do any of you guys know this guy? I watched some of his videos, and they seem to make sense, but then again, I don't know much about E-bikes. He pushes modifying an existing bike, instead of buying a readymade E-bike. And he also recommends the mid-drive motor over the rear hub motor.

fooferdoggie 11-24-21 09:21 PM

it can save you money doing it yourself but it will never be as refined as bosch or a specialized or such. a mid drive with torque sensing will feel like a normal bike but with less effort when you need it.

Lastmohecken 11-24-21 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by fooferdoggie (Post 22319544)
it can save you money doing it yourself but it will never be as refined as bosch or a specialized or such. a mid drive with torque sensing will feel like a normal bike but with less effort when you need it.

So, I guess that is where the pedal assist comes in, and it automatically knows when you need assistance, based on where you set it at? Will the mid drive take you home, without pedaling if needed, assuming you still have enough charge in the battery?

fooferdoggie 11-24-21 09:57 PM


Originally Posted by Lastmohecken (Post 22319558)
So, I guess that is where the pedal assist comes in, and it automatically knows when you need assistance, based on where you set it at? Will the mid drive take you home, without pedaling if needed, assuming you still have enough charge in the battery?

they way a torque sensor works is the harder you push on the peddles the more assist you will get. it jsut feels like it takes less effort to peddle on a good system. a Bafang setup can do it but it will never be a smooth. only a Bafang mid drive or other Chinese motors will haves a mid drive and a throttle. you wont find those in a bike shop. if you get tired you can just turn up the assistance. when I was sick and bought my bike I could go 20mph with not getting my heart rate above 90 so as long as you can move your legs you can make it home. even with my poor energy levels I can ride 250 miles in a week on mine and still get exercise.

2old 11-25-21 08:46 AM

Different strokes as they say. I ride my BBS02 conversion 10X as much as my Haibike since it's more fun (both are sized correctly). Plus it's much easier to service since the cables are accessible (but it's never been necessary in six+ years), and the Haibike set me back $200+ for a new on/off switch/PAS unit ($120 for the part alone).

Lastmohecken 11-25-21 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by fooferdoggie (Post 22319567)
they way a torque sensor works is the harder you push on the peddles the more assist you will get. it jsut feels like it takes less effort to peddle on a good system. a Bafang setup can do it but it will never be a smooth. only a Bafang mid drive or other Chinese motors will haves a mid drive and a throttle. you wont find those in a bike shop. if you get tired you can just turn up the assistance. when I was sick and bought my bike I could go 20mph with not getting my heart rate above 90 so as long as you can move your legs you can make it home. even with my poor energy levels I can ride 250 miles in a week on mine and still get exercise.

Ok, that sounds good.

I am a little confused, however, trying to learn about them. On Johnnynerdout's website, he has several videos and on some of his bike conversions, I saw him riding pretty fast, and not peddling at all. I guess there is a difference between pedal assist and a throttle?

fooferdoggie 11-25-21 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by Lastmohecken (Post 22319862)
Ok, that sounds good.

I am a little confused, however, trying to learn about them. On Johnnynerdout's website, he has several videos and on some of his bike conversions, I saw him riding pretty fast, and not peddling at all. I guess there is a difference between pedal assist and a throttle?

thats a throttle Bafang has a throttle. you wont find one on a name brand mid drive in a local store. my first mid drive had throttle. but it also went through a battery far faster then my bosch powered bike did even though I didn't to use the throttle.

kahn 11-25-21 09:45 AM

My bike was converted by a local shop that handles conversions. It is a front wheel motor but still pedal assist and NO throttle. The motor will only kick in and provide assistance if I turn those pedals but I have to supply the torque or it won't provide much assist. I am definitely getting a workout on hills using it. The front wheel motor makes handling a bit more squirrelly or twitchy.

My Specialized Creo with mid-drive handles much more naturally. Also pedal assist and NO throttle. You either pedal or you get no help. The harder you pedal, the more help it provides.

Sempervee 11-25-21 10:37 AM

He is totally biased to what he sells and he only deals with Mid drive. I really like our Rear Drive with Throttle as this works fine for us. They all come with some compromises. Kitting out my Cannondale I will still go with rear hub.

2old 11-25-21 11:54 AM

I ride almost exclusively off road on (for me) pretty tortuous trails, and a mid-drive seems best. However, initially I rode a Dillenger 36V, PAS front wheel kit and had a blast with it on errands or off road on the same trails. Eventually, my daughter absconded with it. The 52V, rear hub system I just built doesn't seem to be as much fun, perhaps because the heavy rear wheel detracts from the experience.

Lastmohecken 11-26-21 06:54 PM

So, I am taking away that maybe a mid drive conversion with both throttle and pedal assist might be the way to go. I have done a little research and it looks like 750Kw would be the minimum for me, and I think I would rather have 1000kw, but I did read the laws in my state and looks like 750 is the max allowable on bike paths.

So, I am torn as to what to get. I weigh currently about probably 260 with clothes and boots on, which is probably heavier then the average bicycle rider and I do have some steep hills to climb. It would be nice to be legal on the city bike paths since I do have friends that ride there, but so far I have never rode on a city bike path. In the country, county roads and my own farm, it wouldn't matter. With a little gear on the bike, I could be approaching 300 lbs, so do you think a 750Kw would enough?

2old 11-27-21 10:10 AM

I weigh 180, my bike 50 or so pounds, and rarely, if ever, use PAS level greater than three (of nine) on BBS02-equipped hardtail (52V, 10 ah battery). Doubt you would have any problems. Initially you might use a higher level, but that would decrease as your fitness improved. My wife (115 with 50 or so pound bike) and a grandmother never goes above level one (of five) on the hardtail that I built for her.

chas58 11-29-21 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by Lastmohecken (Post 22321277)
So, I am taking away that maybe a mid drive conversion with both throttle and pedal assist might be the way to go. I have done a little research and it looks like 750Kw would be the minimum for me, and I think I would rather have 1000kw, but I did read the laws in my state and looks like 750 is the max allowable on bike paths.

So, I am torn as to what to get. I weigh currently about probably 260 with clothes and boots on, which is probably heavier then the average bicycle rider and I do have some steep hills to climb. It would be nice to be legal on the city bike paths since I do have friends that ride there, but so far I have never rode on a city bike path. In the country, county roads and my own farm, it wouldn't matter. With a little gear on the bike, I could be approaching 300 lbs, so do you think a 750Kw would enough?

hub drive is a lot simpler, cheaper, a little lighter and less maintenance. However, if you are riding hills and/or heavy loads you'll need to use gears and need a mid drive. Personally I don't use gears and just built a single speed hub drive (mid drive is kinda worthless with a single speed). That said, most people don't really need to shift a lot with an ebike (again, unless you are climbing hills).

I don't know how anyone would know the "power" of your system. The power is volts x amps. You could take a 350 watt system and increase the voltage and current to get 1000 watts if you want to, and who would know? Its been done (although sooner or later somethign melts.

Or, you take a 750 watt system (48 volts) run 20 amps through it (instead of 15) and you have 1000 watts. The current (amps) is controlled by the controller, and is someone going to check your battery voltage and current from your controller to see your at 1000 watts instead of 750? (Didn't think so). Unless there is a big sticker on there saying ⚡⚡⚡ 1000 WATTS ⚡⚡⚡ you'll be fine.

Just don't go blasting down a MUP (or anywhere obvious) at 30+ mph.

FYI, a really good in shape cyclist puts out 250 watts. a 1 HP motor puts out 750 watts (e bikes are limited to roughly 1HP in your state).

Riveting 11-29-21 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by Lastmohecken (Post 22319502)
He pushes modifying an existing bike, instead of buying a readymade E-bike. And he also recommends the mid-drive motor over the rear hub motor.

Modifying an existing bike with a hub conversion kit is definitely the least expensive way to go if you already have a bike compatible with the kit you're considering. I opted to install a Class 2 front hub conversion kit (that comes with a 100% complete wheel with tire and tube mounted) from Hilltopper Bikes on my hybrid commuter for $550 & FREE shipping (throttle, full wheel, and battery included). It goes 20mph on the flats, 15-17mph up hills, and ~30 mile range. The kit has a thumb throttle only and no pedal assist or torque sensing, but that's exactly what I wanted, just the ability to press the variable thumb throttle to have the hub give me some assistance when I wanted it when going up hills, and completely off at all other times, when I'm under my own power.

Lastmohecken 11-29-21 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by chas58 (Post 22323585)
hub drive is a lot simpler, cheaper, a little lighter and less maintenance. However, if you are riding hills and/or heavy loads you'll need to use gears and need a mid drive. Personally I don't use gears and just built a single speed hub drive (mid drive is kinda worthless with a single speed). That said, most people don't really need to shift a lot with an ebike (again, unless you are climbing hills).

I don't know how anyone would know the "power" of your system. The power is volts x amps. You could take a 350 watt system and increase the voltage and current to get 1000 watts if you want to, and who would know? Its been done (although sooner or later somethign melts.

Or, you take a 750 watt system (48 volts) run 20 amps through it (instead of 15) and you have 1000 watts. The current (amps) is controlled by the controller, and is someone going to check your battery voltage and current from your controller to see your at 1000 watts instead of 750? (Didn't think so). Unless there is a big sticker on there saying ⚡⚡⚡ 1000 WATTS ⚡⚡⚡ you'll be fine.

Just don't go blasting down a MUP (or anywhere obvious) at 30+ mph.

FYI, a really good in shape cyclist puts out 250 watts. a 1 HP motor puts out 750 watts (e bikes are limited to roughly 1HP in your state).

I do have a lot of bad hills so it looks like maybe the mid drive is the way to go, then, for me.

chas58 11-30-21 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by Lastmohecken (Post 22323990)
I do have a lot of bad hills so it looks like maybe the mid drive is the way to go, then, for me.

For a conversion, get a Bafang BBSHD mid drive:
https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbshd-1000w-middrive-kit/

cat0020 11-30-21 08:52 AM

As any ebike purchase, first you need to set you parameters for performance.
Determine the terrain & type of riding you plan on doing with your ebike, then decide whether mid-drive or hub-drive is better suited for your purpose.
I currently own both type of motor-drive ebikes, and do many different types of riding, on & off-road.
I've built my own and purchased many hub-driven ebike for over a decade, and mid-drive for over 4 years.
I still prefer hub-driven ebikes for majority of my riding.
Determine your needs, be specific; maybe you'd get better suggestions from the collective.

northernjeep 11-30-21 09:20 AM

I run a fat bike and a homemade delta tike each with a mid drive Bafang and enjoy riding both. Also have a golden motor powered delta trike, like that one as well. I refuse to be locked into a preference, that kind of thinking reminds me of the Chevy versus Ford debate, silly and a waste of time.

Lastmohecken 11-30-21 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by cat0020 (Post 22324385)
As any ebike purchase, first you need to set you parameters for performance.
Determine the terrain & type of riding you plan on doing with your ebike, then decide whether mid-drive or hub-drive is better suited for your purpose.
I currently own both type of motor-drive ebikes, and do many different types of riding, on & off-road.
I've built my own and purchased many hub-driven ebike for over a decade, and mid-drive for over 4 years.
I still prefer hub-driven ebikes for majority of my riding.
Determine your needs, be specific; maybe you'd get better suggestions from the collective.

Well, my needs are kind of like this:
I want to ride gravel roads, with steep hills and maybe also some off road farm field and woods riding, still possibly steep hills. I am 64 years old and want to get in better shape, and lose some weight. I do have some friends that ride on paved bike trails using mountain bikes, but that are in younger and better shape then me, and there is no way I could keep up with them on any kind of regular bicycle for very long at all. But maybe I could with an ebike. But most of my riding will be on gravel, dirt, and sometimes muddy roads, for general exercise.

chas58 12-01-21 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by cat0020 (Post 22324385)
I still prefer hub-driven ebikes for majority of my riding.

Why is that?

creativepart 12-01-21 06:01 PM

I bought my Bafang BBSHD mid-drive kit from JNO and they were very prompt and easy to work with. Everything has worked well and I converted my bike in a day or two.

Previously, I had a rear drive kit on the bike from Dillenger and they were great too. But they were higher priced for the BBSHD kit so that's why I bought from JNO this time. I put 1050 miles on my rear drive DIY eBike before I uninstalled it and rebuilt it with the mid-drive kit. I have just under 200 miles now on the mid-drive kit from JohnnyNerdOut.

The rear drive was great. The mid-drive is also great. I think they are similar in performance and both great options. If I had to pick the one I like best... I couldn't. I like them both. I didn't switch between the two styles for any reason other than curiosity. I wanted to try both.

cat0020 12-01-21 06:06 PM

1. Simplicity.
2. Cost less.
3. No extra wear on chain.

2old 12-02-21 11:13 AM

For me, mid-drive has several advantages, but not to argue since everyone has individual preference:
1) Weight distribution.
2) Better for steep hills since the gears can be used to multiply the power.
3) Easier to repair flat tire.
4) Controller contained within casing, not separate (There are hub systems like this; also, it could be a liability in hot weather, but hasn't been for me at 100+ degrees).
5) Neither hub nor mid is more trouble since most of the time is spent concealing cables.
6) Don't need torque arms
That said, hub systems are great for pavement and mild off road, and front for even harsher off road terrain.

fooferdoggie 12-02-21 06:55 PM

[QUOTE=2old;22326678]For me, mid-drive has several advantages, but not to argue since everyone has individual preference:

4) Controller contained within casing, not separate (There are hub systems like this; also, it could be a liability in hot weather, but hasn't been for me at 100+ degrees).
5) Neither hub nor mid is more trouble since most of the time is spent concealing cables.
/QUOTE]
my bosch handled 118 degrees with a road temp of about 130 it did better then me.

Lastmohecken 12-02-21 11:44 PM

Well, I have been doing a bunch of research and it looks like I would have to buy the 120mm HD Bafang to fit my fat bike and clear the chain stay. It's the 1000 Kw and then after pricing all of the special tools, I will probably need, I am within $500 or so of just buying a new Rad rover so I don't know, And then it looks like you still need to program the Bafang to make it more user friendly and I am not much on computers. I am going to test ride a Rad rover and if I like it, for 500 more and I still have my old bike to ride, also, the Rad just may be the way to go for my first Ebike.


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