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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

obrentharris 06-12-20 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21530032)
Thanks for all the tips, whether directed at me or not. I would prefer to find tires in Mexico, even at half again the price. I am so far unable to find Vlaanderens. I have an inquiry in to an Ebay seller as to shipping here. Is Ebay a safe place to shop these days?

I've been doing fine buying from ebay. But during these times shipping can be quite slow regardless of who the vendor is. I waited 3 weeks for an item from England, 5 weeks for an item from Italy. I'm going on 3 weeks now for some Vlaanderens from Germany.
Brent

smontanaro 06-13-20 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by L134 (Post 21530769)
That was my conclusion. I just ordered 4 direct. I hope I'm not disappointed.

I asked Veloflex and they responded that, yes, the Vlaanderen has been discontinued and that the 28mm ProTour is the best replacement. I would love to hear a ride report. I don't know how Veloflex marketed the Vlaanderen, but the ProTour is marketed as a "training" tire. I hope the casing and tread are similar between the two and that the ProTour doesn't sacrifice ride characteristics in the name of puncture resistance.

seedsbelize 06-13-20 11:03 AM

In my long affair with convincing myself that I want to try tubulars, I read an account by someone who said (s)he buys one nice tire per year. That felt like the way to go. For myself, I have almost convinced myself to start out with Yellow Jersey's 3/$50, just to see if I like the platform. Then if I like the platform, I can move forward with nicer tires. If I don't, I don't have hundreds of dollars invested.

DiabloScott 06-13-20 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21531829)
In my long affair with convincing myself that I want to try tubulars, I read an account by someone who said (s)he buys one nice tire per year. That felt like the way to go. For myself, I have almost convinced myself to start out with Yellow Jersey's 3/$50, just to see if I like the platform. Then if I like the platform, I can move forward with nicer tires. If I don't, I don't have hundreds of dollars invested.

I remember saying something like that - I ride my nice cobble-sewups starting about October and then when I get one flat, I switch to my clinchers for the rest of the season, that's my concession. But I have a whole drawer full of new Vittoria Pave's because they don't make them anymore, and I got a good deal on them, and I don't get that may flats, and my budget isn't really that tight. Plus... what the hell.

squirtdad 06-13-20 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21531829)
In my long affair with convincing myself that I want to try tubulars, I read an account by someone who said (s)he buys one nice tire per year. That felt like the way to go. For myself, I have almost convinced myself to start out with Yellow Jersey's 3/$50, just to see if I like the platform. Then if I like the platform, I can move forward with nicer tires. If I don't, I don't have hundreds of dollars invested.

consider this option........https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11561655.html i have them on my 84 team miyata and the ride is super (and they have removable valves so you can use seallant) and they are 25s why you ask did i not get repeat on my recent purchase.....didn't find them in a 27/28 (but since then is seem like the do make them in 27

seedsbelize 06-13-20 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21532315)
consider this option........https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11561655.html i have them on my 84 team miyata and the ride is super (and they have removable valves so you can use seallant) and they are 25s why you ask did i not get repeat on my recent purchase.....didn't find them in a 27/28 (but since then is seem like the do make them in 27

Thanks. Under consideration
Edit: It says they are in stock but the buy now button doesn't work.
Edit: Gone

seedsbelize 06-14-20 11:37 AM

So I'll keep on shopping, both there and here. She doesn't leave here til mid August. I am open to suggestions.

hazetguy 06-14-20 12:02 PM

you have to click on the tire size, and then the 'buy now' button works.

seedsbelize 06-14-20 09:38 PM

^^^^Thanks for that tip
Done
3/$100

squirtdad 06-15-20 09:30 AM

just glued my second set of tires on.......I followed vittoria's instructions for the first one and it when on but was a fiight, pretty sure I got the valve down and then went back to what yellow jersey as documentd.....this worked about 1000 % better

so for newbie gluers IMHO read this and follow and your will day....what is the big deal



Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

pastorbobnlnh 06-15-20 08:49 PM

Do Tufo tubular-clinchers count as semi-real tubular tires?

I just ordered a pair of Tufo S33 tubular-clinchers for the mid-90s Mavic Cosmic wheels I bought on CL last year. They are for my '93 Cannondale R600. I wanted to run tubular wheels, but the wheels were $85 and such a good deal.

Any experience here with Tufo's tubular-clinchers? I'd appreciate your insights.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fb498469f.jpg

jonwvara 06-16-20 05:33 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21534899)
just glued my second set of tires on.......I followed vittoria's instructions for the first one and it when on but was a fiight, pretty sure I got the valve down and then went back to what yellow jersey as documentd.....this worked about 1000 % better

so for newbie gluers IMHO read this and follow and your will day....what is the big deal



Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

Thanks for posting that link. It can be that easy? One coat of cement on the rim, another coat on the tire, then mount ten minutes later? No multiple coats on both over multiple days? Had I read that before, I might not have defaulted to tape for my first experience with tubulars.

The YJ directions on repairing tubulars

Tubular Tire Repair at Yellow Jersey

are also wonderfully straightforward. Had I read them first, I might not have gone straight to sealant after my first flat. Which, I should add, arrived once I had a whacking 15 miles or so on my first set of new tubulars. Maybe that's better than average performance on Vermont roads--I guess I'll find out.

pastorbobnlnh 06-16-20 05:45 AM

jonwvara as we say, "YMMV." :p

In fear of bringing on a major tubular catastrophe, I've yet to experience a tubular flat!

Now that I've said this, I will have one 45 miles from home, alone, with no cell coverage, while a major thunderstorm rumblies over the horizan in VT. :eek:

hazetguy 06-16-20 07:25 AM

these are gluing instructions that i found posted on Paceline (i might have even posted them in this thread before). this was posted by a well regarded wheel builder/mechanic, ex-shop owner, etc. i had no problems using this method, pretty straightofrward, and it wasn't messy.


again, here and assuming a pre stretched tubular and solvent brush

PLUS my favorite glue is Panaracer.. a can of it is the best..doesn't dry out like can of Vittoria, but Pana cans hard to find..I just use tubes. USE in well ventilated area or you will 'take a trip without leavin' the farm''..

Emory paper on rim, and on tire(new rim and tire)..wipe off with acetone.

Wee bit of air in tubular..most will 'turn' 90 degrees.

THIN coats, edge to edge.
-Glue the tire-thin coat
-immediately glue the rim
-then glue the tire(no, don't wait a day-dumm)
-then glue the rim
-then glue the tire..NOW wait until glue on tire is sticky to your finger(about 20 minutes)..then
-Glue the rim, and then mount the DEFLATED tire(rim on ground, valve in hole..push, push, push down each side on sidewalls)..pull onto rim..never touching glued part.
-wee bit of air again, center tire..
-roll on ground, pushing down hard..particularly at valve.

-Wait- 24 hours, go ride.

smontanaro 06-16-20 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by hazetguy (Post 21536749)
....
-wee bit of air again, center tire..
-roll on ground, pushing down hard..particularly at valve.

-Wait- 24 hours, go ride.

After centering the tire I inflate the tire well above the pressure I intend to use (say, 100psi if I'm aiming at 60-80psi ride pressures), then do the 24-hour wait. This (I believe anyway) makes sure the base tape is sealed all the way around and is pushed all the way into the well of the rim. I wonder if the "roll on ground" step is intended to achieve the same goal.

squirtdad 06-16-20 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21536278)
Do Tufo tubular-clinchers count as semi-real tubular tires?

I just ordered a pair of Tufo S33 tubular-clinchers for the mid-90s Mavic Cosmic wheels I bought on CL last year. They are for my '93 Cannondale R600. I wanted to run tubular wheels, but the wheels were $85 and such a good deal.

Any experience here with Tufo's tubular-clinchers? I'd appreciate your insights.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fb498469f.jpg

IIRC RobbieTunes has some experience with these

squirtdad 06-16-20 10:28 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21534899)
just glued my second set of tires on.......I followed vittoria's instructions for the first one and it when on but was a fiight, pretty sure I got the valve down and then went back to what yellow jersey as documentd.....this worked about 1000 % better

so for newbie gluers IMHO read this and follow and your will day....what is the big deal



Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

and put the wheels on last night and the front wheel (yellow jersey) was great

Back wheel, different story, i had a huge high spot around the stem, such that it hit the frame on rotation. I attribute that to not having streched the tire on both sides of of the stem enough

so I learned that I can take the tire off without tools, which gives me more confidence for on road exchanges (I used tufo tape on tufo tires...and don't think i could have gotten those off on the road without tools)

I also get to reglue the tire and install so more practice

all good and all learning

squirtdad 06-16-20 10:29 AM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 21536585)
Thanks for posting that link. It can be that easy? One coat of cement on the rim, another coat on the tire, then mount ten minutes later? No multiple coats on both over multiple days? Had I read that before, I might not have defaulted to tape for my first experience with tubulars.

The YJ directions on repairing tubulars

Tubular Tire Repair at Yellow Jersey

are also wonderfully straightforward. Had I read them first, I might not have gone straight to sealant after my first flat. Which, I should add, arrived once I had a whacking 15 miles or so on my first set of new tubulars. Maybe that's better than average performance on Vermont roads--I guess I'll find out.

to be precise i glued both rim and tire and let them sit a couple of hours and then another coat on the rim and mount the tires

79pmooney 06-16-20 11:14 AM

In my 27 years of tubulars, I never applied glue to the tire basetape. Always seemed to me like a lot of work and messy. I do examine the basetape to make sure I trust that the glue will stick well. Been known to wipe it with solvent like lacquer thinner. I just applied the glue over the old, well bonded glue, let sit for a while, then mounted the tire. Usually do a very gentle roll around the block on the freshly mounted tire. Let it sit for a day, try to roll the tire off and ride the heck out of it. Never cleaned rims. I would use a file or the like to smooth out especially lumpy old glue. (New, clean rims scare me. I don't fully trust the tire-rim bond until its the second gluing and I had to work to pull the first tire off.

Hardly rocket science or even difficult. For non-race wheels, I always used Tubasti (which I see is still made) because it did not set up hard and an on-the-road change done dry is well bonded in a couple of miles. (I still didn't corner hard but that spare would be solidly on when I got home.)

(This was my system when I didn't own a car and rode at times at night in sketchy neighborhoods. Loved that I could be out of there whatever happened to my tire in 5 minutes. Rain, snow, alcohol; didn't matter. Rip the tire off, stick the used spare on, pump up and go. I might get seasick looking at the tread waving around but that didn't matter. It was going to get me home.)

And yes, I am going back. My current clinchers get ridden until the rims wear out, then it's back to the good stuff. Again for security; not bad neighborhoods now but big descents, If I ever flat a tire at very high speeds (easily reached in western Oregon) I want to be on glued on sewups! Coming to a stop is so much more boring! (Yeah, I gotta admit, a real part of this I want to go back to riding the magic carpets. I got to race on Fiamme Ergal rims and Clement Criterium Setas. Doesn't get a whole lot better. I want that high again. I will settle for a little more weight now.)

Ben

smontanaro 06-16-20 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21537125)
Back wheel, different story, i had a huge high spot around the stem, such that it hit the frame on rotation.

Check the diameter of the valve stem hole w.r.t. the shoulder around the valve stem. In The Art of Wheelbuilding, Gerd Schraner bemoaned the fact that he basically always had to countersink the valve stem hole to get the tubular to lay flat. I don't recall if he was blaming the rim or tire manufacturers. Worth a check before attempting the second installation.

DiabloScott 06-16-20 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 21537213)
In my 27 years of tubulars, I never applied glue to the tire basetape.

In my 35 years of tubulars, I've always put some glue on the basetape; even when reinstalling used tires. New rims get two coats, previously been glued rims get one.

I gotta say though, my tires are damn hard to get off and I could probably ease up some without sacrificing any safety.

seedsbelize 06-16-20 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21536278)
Do Tufo tubular-clinchers count as semi-real tubular tires?

I just ordered a pair of Tufo S33 tubular-clinchers for the mid-90s Mavic Cosmic wheels I bought on CL last year. They are for my '93 Cannondale R600. I wanted to run tubular wheels, but the wheels were $85 and such a good deal.

Any experience here with Tufo's tubular-clinchers? I'd appreciate your insights.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fb498469f.jpg

Robbie Tunes has used them. You might ask him.

L134 06-18-20 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 21531706)
I asked Veloflex and they responded that, yes, the Vlaanderen has been discontinued and that the 28mm ProTour is the best replacement. I would love to hear a ride report. I don't know how Veloflex marketed the Vlaanderen, but the ProTour is marketed as a "training" tire. I hope the casing and tread are similar between the two and that the ProTour doesn't sacrifice ride characteristics in the name of puncture resistance.

i got my ProTours yesterday, 2 days early. The base tape is stamped 6/10. I weighed them at 300g, which I think is same as Vlaanderen. They mount easily, round and true and measure 28mm. I put 24 miles on them this morning. I think if you like the Vlaanderens you will like the ProTours.

CV-6 06-18-20 01:02 PM

@L134 Thanks for the report. Those will for sure get a look when I am in the market.

Allow me to add another high end choice. Specialized Turbo Hell of the North 28mm. These are pricey, but I snagged an unused set for less than half price. Oh my are they nice. I am a big boy, so I am running them at 70F and 80R but I think I can play with that. Yesterday was the best the CT has ever felt under me. I rode more than I planned and had my "best times". While out of the scope of this thread, I can say the clincher version of these are quite nice also.

EDIT: I am mistaken. I confused these with some FMB tubulars I bought. These can be had for not much more than the Veloflex. Not cheap, but not as pricey as I stated.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11d3f29ee2.jpg

hazetguy 06-18-20 04:48 PM

Veloflex instructions that came with a pair of Vlaanderens I just bought.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8bd1f146df.jpg

Classtime 06-18-20 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21536278)
Do Tufo tubular-clinchers count as semi-real tubular tires?
I just ordered a pair of Tufo S33 tubular-clinchers for the mid-90s Mavic Cosmic wheels I bought on CL last year. They are for my '93 Cannondale R600. I wanted to run tubular wheels, but the wheels were $85 and such a good deal.
Any experience here with Tufo's tubular-clinchers? I'd appreciate your insights.

Before I got into tubulars, I had the s33 tubular clinchers on my gofast bike. I thought they rode nearly as nice as my GP4000s on Bontrager XXXlites. I was disappointed that they didn't seal after flatting as well as marketed but I did feel secure that they wouldn't come off in case of a flat on a spirited descent which was my objective.

woodcraft 06-22-20 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 21540991)
@L134 Thanks for the report. Those will for sure get a look when I am in the market.

Allow me to add another high end choice. Specialized Turbo Hell of the North 28mm. These are pricey, but I snagged an unused set for less than half price. Oh my are they nice. I am a big boy, so I am running them at 70F and 80R but I think I can play with that. Yesterday was the best the CT has ever felt under me. I rode more than I planned and had my "best times". While out of the scope of this thread, I can say the clincher version of these are quite nice also.

EDIT: I am mistaken. I confused these with some FMB tubulars I bought. These can be had for not much more than the Veloflex. Not cheap, but not as pricey as I stated.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11d3f29ee2.jpg


I ordered one of those as I had a gift certificate to use up. More than I usually pay for tires,

but should be good for the winter/foul weather set up.


Have you got a padlock on that fence?

squirtdad 06-27-20 04:38 PM

Baby has new shoes.... Vitorria Corsa G+ Control. These are supposedly a a little tougher then the corsa g....we will see, I hope so as I had flat issues with corsa G+ clinchers.

30 mm, measure 30. For context replacing Conti GP 5000 clinchers. (tubed) which have been great tires

First impressions smooth, very smooth. and handled little bits of gravel and rough spots really nicely. Noticeable improvement from the cont's, but not night and day noticeable as when I went from some 25 mm bontrager clincher to 25 mm challenge elite pro on my other team miyata. Not sure if any faster, but handle well. Overall I am happy.

Interesting that it seemed like they "settled in" and go better as the ride went on, so will be really interesting to see if that continues for a bit

and of course DiabloScott fold for the spare

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e72c54bfb7.jpg

gaucho777 06-30-20 04:23 PM

@squirtdad, looking good. I've got a set of the corsa g tubulars on my De Rosa. After ~6 months, I'm finding that they give a great ride, and are fairly resistant to flats. However, I keep picking up little bits of glass, thorns, and other sundry road debris in the channels on the tread. Nothing too serious: 2 slow leaks that have been fixed with sealant (happened again on yesterday's ride), and other debris that I removed before it pushed into the tubes. I do suggest periodically checking these tires, particularly those channels in the tread that run the length of the tire, to see if they've picked up anything unwanted.

pastorbobnlnh 07-01-20 05:46 AM

gaucho777 and squirtdad somehow we need to figure out how to mount rootboy 's tire wipers/flint catchers on brake calipers mounted with recessed nuts and bolts. I've had a great experience when using them with both tubulars and supple clincher tires.


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