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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

2cam16 12-20-16 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19261452)
Great find. I like that color too. If you wanted to, since it's a solid color and not the candy apple type, you could match this paint on an old 2 point hockey stick chainguard and use a downtube transfer since they're the same on this model. The new vinyl transfers are quite good. I have one on my roadster. I like to use One Shot sign painter's enamel. I buy small cans of primary colors and experiment until I get a good match. You can spray a clear coat or not and use a more coarse compound to leave the finish a bit dull. It's possible to blend in the new chainguard pretty well and who knows, after a few years of use it might look almost original.
Here's a 64 I finished up last summer.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f.../64_Sports.jpg

Gorgeous.

BigChief 12-20-16 06:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19262252)
A friend bought this for me back in October in Richmond, VA (the city where old Raleighs retire). I just got it from him today and must say I am pleased with the bike. It appears to be original except for the seat, shifter cables, and tires. The only problems I have found are a front tube that needs replacing and a broken plastic faceplate on the 3 speed shift trigger. It shifts through all gears, so now I only need to wait for a warmer day to begin the cleanup. Oh, I have a sprung leather saddle waiting for it too.

You got it...great! Been waiting to see better pics. Looks to be in super condition. This is one rare bike. I've never even seen a picture of one before. All the catalogs show the gents version. Beautiful bike. Bet you're gonna like the S5. I have a different version of the bell crank on mine.
Attachment 546505

thumpism 12-20-16 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19189376)
Swung by the co-op again this afternoon for a closer look at the European 3-speed I noticed there previously. After clambering over more junk than can be found in my own garage, I saw the headbadge and turns out it's a Condor, made in Switzerland by the same company that builds the Swiss army bikes. Photo below is not the same bicycle but looks very close, and those of you with Puch/A-D mixtes will probably recognize the bend of the handlebars, missing on the bike I found. Darn.

https://blidalbikes.files.wordpress....12/06/0022.jpg

Attachment 543112

Well, I went by the co-op again this evening and bought it. Don't tell Santa; she doesn't know about it yet. It's Swiss, not English but it has a Sturmey with the hub date of 78 and 700C alloy wheels, full alloy chainguard (never seen one before), broken taillight and no handlebars. Pics coming.

BigChief 12-20-16 10:15 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19261847)
Mighty fine looking bike and the chainguard looks like a match. those rims are pretty nice, too. The only ones of the original rims I ever got looking decent are on a 51. Didn't have to do much to them as they are some sort of different steel alloy and they hold up very well. They are the ones with the raised matte finish centers. I was pretty surprised when I started cleaning up the bike to find the rims in nice condition and stainless spokes, too. I think they stopped using those pattern rims and the stainless spoke in 52 or 53. By 56, they were gone.

These are the usual 40H and 32H Raleigh pattern "westrick" rims and they are very clean. This bike had a bent drive side crank, some big soft dents in the rear fender, missing chain guard, shifter, grips and headlight bracket but no rust. Good 40-32 westricks are quite rare. When there's rust on the outside, it's usually worse inside and when a bike has been sitting for 40 years, there's usually one really bad spot where moisture collected at the bottom. We're lucky quality alloys like CR-18s are available in 40H. Still, anybody wanting to do a historic type restoration is going to want good westricks and they are scarce. That's what I'm trying to do with this project and why I kept the original plastic pulley. I'm quick to get rid of those on my riders. Next thing on my list for this bike are old white original grips like the ones on the green '64 above.

adventurepdx 12-21-16 01:27 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19262199)
Looks like you could do with a metal pulley. You can get them and the metal fulcrum clip from Jon the Gentleman Cyclist- see the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour website for contact info.
The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour

More dirct link to the GC merch:
Gentleman Cyclist Merchandise

dweenk 12-21-16 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19262891)
You got it...great! Been waiting to see better pics. Looks to be in super condition. This is one rare bike. I've never even seen a picture of one before. All the catalogs show the gents version. Beautiful bike. Bet you're gonna like the S5. I have a different version of the bell crank on mine.
Attachment 546505

I discovered another issue with the Sprint today. The chainring is bent so that it nearly rubs the chainstay. When I take it all apart for cleaning and bearing maintenance, I'm thinking that a no-bounce mallet and a wood block may straighten it out. Any better ideas/

DQRider 12-21-16 11:15 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19263983)
I discovered another issue with the Sprint today. The chainring is bent so that it nearly rubs the chainstay. When I take it all apart for cleaning and bearing maintenance, I'm thinking that a no-bounce mallet and a wood block may straighten it out. Any better ideas/

A photo would help the Garage Logicians among us to formulate a solution. Also, are you willing to take it off the bike for this operation, or do you want to do it in place?

BigChief 12-21-16 03:43 PM

Hammering with a soft mallet works, but it's difficult to keep track of things. You need to have a nice wide flat surface like a kitchen counter top to check your progress. Because the wheel is dished and there's a fixed crank in the way, you need a 2"x2" piece of steel or hardwood chucked in a bench vise to use as an anvil and you work out the bend a small area at a time. You can also try to spot the bend by eye and chuck the chainwheel in the bench vise between two boards and use a steel rod through the spindle hole to make corrections. The trick is to go slow and keep checking against a flat surface.

clubman 12-21-16 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19263983)
I discovered another issue with the Sprint today. The chainring is bent so that it nearly rubs the chainstay. When I take it all apart for cleaning and bearing maintenance, I'm thinking that a no-bounce mallet and a wood block may straighten it out. Any better ideas/

I've straightened a few soft steel cranks with the mallet/blocks thing 'in situ'. I also have a 16" adjustable wrench that allows you to push and pull the ring into alignment. No I don't worry about the hard steel BB's on these bikes, I find they tolerate the abuse. I guess it depends on the bike. It's easier than truing a wheel

thumpism 12-21-16 07:59 PM

5 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19262928)
Well, I went by the co-op again this evening and bought it. Don't tell Santa; she doesn't know about it yet. It's Swiss, not English but it has a Sturmey with the hub date of 78 and 700C alloy wheels, full alloy chainguard (never seen one before), broken taillight and no handlebars. Pics coming.

So, here it is in its new home. No immediate plans for it yet but I might try the 700C alloy wheels on my Raleigh Pro frame to see if it will make a neat path racer. It's not fancy but it's a really nice little bike and in such good shape. The wheels are damn near perfect; not a hop, not a wobble, not a ding.

I really hate that it's missing some parts but I probably would not have found it otherwise, and the rest is in very good shape.
Attachment 546584

This type frame must have a specific name. I'll have to research that. Union pedals.
Attachment 546585

Sturmey hub from '78.
Attachment 546586

DT spokes in a modest level bike. Must be a Swiss thang.
Attachment 546587

Union front hub with oil port.
Attachment 546588

SirMike1983 12-21-16 09:21 PM

My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

1964 Dawn Tourist rim:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BK7urL8pl...0/IMG_2956.JPG

1964 Dawn Tourist for the Danish market:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

BigChief 12-21-16 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19264969)
I've straightened a few soft steel cranks with the mallet/blocks thing 'in situ'. I also have a 16" adjustable wrench that allows you to push and pull the ring into alignment. No I don't worry about the hard steel BB's on these bikes, I find they tolerate the abuse. I guess it depends on the bike. It's easier than truing a wheel

I thought about leaving the crank on the bike and bending the outer rim with a wrench. It makes sense that it would reverse the bend since it got hit on the outer rim and was fixed at the spindle when it bent originally. Never tried it because I was afraid I'd end up making an S bend or kink and never get the wobble out. I felt safer putting the fulcrum point at the center of the bend, but if bending it from the rim with a wrench works, that would sure be the easy way to go. Maybe I'll have the courage to try it next time. I always straighten crank arms while they're still mounted on the bike. Doesn't hurt the bearings a bit.

dweenk 12-22-16 12:45 PM

I plan to regrease the bottom bracket on the Sprite, so I may as well pull the chainwheel. I have a vise with wooden jaws, so I can give lots of support to the area in question.

BYW, the bike has a shop sticker on it that reads "Dieners, Pottstown, PA".

BigChief 12-22-16 02:38 PM

I've straightened many crank arms over the years but only 2 chainwheels. Both were the standard Raleigh spoked type not heron wheels. The bench vise method did work, but I'm very interested in what clubman said about tweeking the wheel with a large wrench while it was mounted on the BB. You could just spin the crank and make adjustments by eye. I'm going to try this next time. I spent a long time getting those to lie flat on the surface plate. Bending it with a wrench would be far more efficient and may work just as well.

BigChief 12-22-16 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19265267)
My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

1964 Dawn Tourist rim:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BK7urL8pl...0/IMG_2956.JPG

1964 Dawn Tourist for the Danish market:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

I think chrome plating was more rugged on the 50s and early 60s bikes in general. Quality seemed to suffer some by the 70s and today, most of it is poor. It doesn't even look the same new and rusts quickly.

clubman 12-22-16 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19266423)
I've straightened many crank arms over the years but only 2 chainwheels. Both were the standard Raleigh spoked type not heron wheels. The bench vise method did work, but I'm very interested in what clubman said about tweeking the wheel with a large wrench while it was mounted on the BB. You could just spin the crank and make adjustments by eye. I'm going to try this next time. I spent a long time getting those to lie flat on the surface plate. Bending it with a wrench would be far more efficient and may work just as well.

You got it. The ability to spin the cranks lets you quickly identify the wow in the rings. 5 mins using the wrench and a deadblow hammer to get it close enough to be unnoticeable. Large C clamps are also good options, they let you get a purchase closer to the spindle if needed.

2cam16 12-23-16 05:41 PM

Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

drday 12-23-16 06:05 PM

Got er' done just in time for the winter solstice.
 
1 Attachment(s)
1960 Raleigh Sports with 6 speed conversion. Except for the grips it is ready. Also, this bike has the Westrick rims as noted in the previous post.

clubman 12-23-16 06:45 PM


Originally Posted by 2cam16 (Post 19268376)
Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

Really nice work, best $10 Huffy I've ever seen. Don't forget to drizzle lots-o-oil into the rear brake housing. Water likes to get in there causing seizures.:eek:

2cam16 12-23-16 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19268459)
Really nice work, best $10 Huffy I've ever seen. Don't forget to drizzle lots-o-oil into the rear brake housing. Water likes to get in there causing seizures.:eek:

Thanks,Clubman! Will do.

thumpism 12-24-16 06:41 AM

Okay, so it's not English, but German. However it is a 3-speed. Actually, it's kinda like two 3-speeds.

Vintage German Westfalen tandem cruiser bicycle

Vintage German Westfalen tandem cruiser bicycle - $500 (Williamsburg)

https://images.craigslist.org/01313_...K_1200x900.jpg

condition: excellent
make / manufacturer: Westfallen
model name / number: Top Modell
size / dimensions: 22" front post 21" rear post

Reluctantly selling my 1980's Westfalen Top Modell tandem bike. This tandem is in beautiful condition, new tires and tubes, freshly tuned and ready to ride. Features a Sachs 3 speed coaster brake hub, dual Aero Continental cranksets, front and rear Weinmann side pull brakes, Pletscher rack, full lighting, chrome fenders, 26" CST Classic E-Bike tires with reflective sidewall. 22" / 21" frame that sports the original air pump, original tool kit, and a rear wheel lock built into the frame. Built and sold in Germany to a high standard with detail and aesthetics that are rare anymore and hard to find.

This is a gorgeous bike that rides perfectly. I collect, restore and ride vintage bikes and consider this one of my best but it does not get ridden like it should! The bike is perfect for rides on the Capitol bike trail, Colonial Parkway, the oceanfront, or around Richmond.

May consider trades of quality men's mountain bike MTB or road bike.

markk900 12-24-16 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19265267)
My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

I have those rims on my 1949 Humber, and for the most part they are in excellent shape, except the brake surfaces were quite worn and rusty. Cleaned them up and they work as well as can be expected, and I bought some replacement CR18s for when I eventually replace them, but the trainspotter in me thinks the rim profile and the matt centre are details too nice to lose.

Any idea how to rechrome that type of rim and retain the satin centre? The fellow in Greece has a couple of NOS ones but chroming might be cheaper!

desconhecido 12-24-16 12:36 PM

old Raleigh rims
 
I looked through old photos that I took when I acquired a couple bikes about two years ago. One is a 51 Sports
step through the other is a 56 21" Sports. There is definitely a difference between the rims on the 51 and the
56.

This first picture shows, from left to right, 590 CR18, 51 Sports front wheel, 56 Sports rear wheel, two 79
Sturmey Archer rims from a 79 Sports

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim1.jpg

The difference between the 51 and the 56 rims is readily apparent. They don't appear to me to be the same alloy
though they seem to be the same extrusion (or however the flat rim stock is formed) which is clearly different in
shape from the 79 rims, though that may not be obvious in the photo. Of course, the obvious difference is how
corrosion resistant the 51 rim seems as opposed to the 56.


Here's a pretty clear photo of the 51 rim which shows the raised center section which is, I believe etched perhaps
mechanically.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim5.jpg

Here's a photo of the 56 which, for some reason, didn't come out as clear.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim2.jpg

The brand stamping is not nearly as clear and though the raised center is sort of a matte finish, it is not nearly as
distinct as the 51. Interesting, the "registration" number on the 56 rims is the same as that on the 51 rims, so it
seems that Raleigh considered to be identical, though they were clearly not.

Here's a picture of the weld joint on the 51 rim that was in the above pictures

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim6.jpg

There is very little corrosion and the workmanship/machining is, by Raleigh standards, extraordinary. This rim did
not get any work other than just wiping the grease off with a rag. No steel wool or wire brushing or oxalic acid
treatment -- just degreasing. I don't know anything about what alloy they used back then, but it wasn't, in my
opinion, what the were using in 56 and the difference compared to the mid to late 70s is obvious.

Here are the 56 rims earlier today

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim8.jpg

Apparently I cleaned these up with oxalic acid as there are still traces of that yellow crud that gets left behind.
The chrome is mostly intact, except for the brake surfaces all the way around both rims. Note that the center
section on the rim is a matte finish but, to my eye, not the same as on the earlier rims.

All considered, these rims actually cleaned up reasonably well. But, I'll never use them. If anybody can use them,
they can have them for the cost of shipping, or for free in Houston. If they prove useful, I'd accept some random
Raleigh/three speed stuff considered by the recipient to be of equal value. No considered value, no charge.
Specifics: 56 Raleigh EA3 rims cleaned with oxalic acid. 40h and 32h.

BigChief 12-24-16 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by 2cam16 (Post 19268376)
Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

Wow, that came out nice. Good job. What a good rags to riches story :thumb:

SirMike1983 12-24-16 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19269372)
I looked through old photos that I took when I acquired a couple bikes about two years ago. One is a 51 Sports
step through the other is a 56 21" Sports. There is definitely a difference between the rims on the 51 and the
56.

This first picture shows, from left to right, 590 CR18, 51 Sports front wheel, 56 Sports rear wheel, two 79
Sturmey Archer rims from a 79 Sports

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim1.jpg

The difference between the 51 and the 56 rims is readily apparent. They don't appear to me to be the same alloy
though they seem to be the same extrusion (or however the flat rim stock is formed) which is clearly different in
shape from the 79 rims, though that may not be obvious in the photo. Of course, the obvious difference is how
corrosion resistant the 51 rim seems as opposed to the 56.


Here's a pretty clear photo of the 51 rim which shows the raised center section which is, I believe etched perhaps
mechanically.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim5.jpg

Here's a photo of the 56 which, for some reason, didn't come out as clear.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim2.jpg

The brand stamping is not nearly as clear and though the raised center is sort of a matte finish, it is not nearly as
distinct as the 51. Interesting, the "registration" number on the 56 rims is the same as that on the 51 rims, so it
seems that Raleigh considered to be identical, though they were clearly not.

Here's a picture of the weld joint on the 51 rim that was in the above pictures

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim6.jpg

There is very little corrosion and the workmanship/machining is, by Raleigh standards, extraordinary. This rim did
not get any work other than just wiping the grease off with a rag. No steel wool or wire brushing or oxalic acid
treatment -- just degreasing. I don't know anything about what alloy they used back then, but it wasn't, in my
opinion, what the were using in 56 and the difference compared to the mid to late 70s is obvious.

Here are the 56 rims earlier today

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim8.jpg

Apparently I cleaned these up with oxalic acid as there are still traces of that yellow crud that gets left behind.
The chrome is mostly intact, except for the brake surfaces all the way around both rims. Note that the center
section on the rim is a matte finish but, to my eye, not the same as on the earlier rims.

All considered, these rims actually cleaned up reasonably well. But, I'll never use them. If anybody can use them,
they can have them for the cost of shipping, or for free in Houston. If they prove useful, I'd accept some random
Raleigh/three speed stuff considered by the recipient to be of equal value. No considered value, no charge.
Specifics: 56 Raleigh EA3 rims cleaned with oxalic acid. 40h and 32h.

Neat- sent you a PM about these. I am interested.




Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19268987)
I have those rims on my 1949 Humber, and for the most part they are in excellent shape, except the brake surfaces were quite worn and rusty. Cleaned them up and they work as well as can be expected, and I bought some replacement CR18s for when I eventually replace them, but the trainspotter in me thinks the rim profile and the matt centre are details too nice to lose.

Any idea how to rechrome that type of rim and retain the satin centre? The fellow in Greece has a couple of NOS ones but chroming might be cheaper!


What I do when they're like that is clean up the brake with WD-40 and bronze wool or a bronze/brass bristle brush and just run them as is. If the brake track wear is through the plating but not through the base steel, I consider it "honest wear" and just ride them as they stand.


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