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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

browngw 08-08-19 09:04 AM

Yesterdays ride was a solo trip through "Sherwood Forest" ( Lynn River Rail Trail)on the nearly fifty year old, made in England, 1971 Robin Hood "Sports Model" 3 speed. Turned around in Simcoe-on-the-Lynn and headed back to the shores of Dover. The faint click-click-click of the Sturmey Archer hub provided background music. Other than the Garmin and the SPD pedals looks quite vintage. I have swapped in my apple green B17 and am looking for some nice green bar tape to match. The Honey B67 I purchased for the RH now lives on the Royal Nord. Sorry about the phone quality pictures, forgot to pick up a camera on my way out.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d9e017ae3.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...119b04a67b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2ac9b0bff.jpg

Murray Missile 08-10-19 07:38 AM

Should I?
 
I wasn't really in the market for another one right now as I just bought a '77 Raleigh LTD-3 a few weeks ago to refurbish but this Royal Scot was recently listed locally on FB. It has the tall frame, although not quite tall enough for my 6' 1-1/2" but I can make it work. He's asking a bit more than I paid for thr LTD but I bought the LTD pretty cheap and I'm hoping I can talk him down a bit. From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970. I sent him a message to see if it's still available and to see if he had a picture of the drive side. Looks rough and I wouldn't do a repaint just clean it up well and clear coat it to preserve it then do an overhaul on all the mechanicals, I like the "rustic" look on this one. I plan to make some changes to the LTD but this one would remain pretty much original except for the seatpost and stem I'd need to make it fit me. Sure wish these had been made with a taller frame but......

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e31c17771f.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...74a120543d.jpg

BigChief 08-10-19 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21068828)
I wasn't really in the market for another one right now as I just bought a '77 Raleigh LTD-3 a few weeks ago to refurbish but this Royal Scot was recently listed locally on FB. It has the tall frame, although not quite tall enough for my 6' 1-1/2" but I can make it work. He's asking a bit more than I paid for thr LTD but I bought the LTD pretty cheap and I'm hoping I can talk him down a bit. From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970. I sent him a message to see if it's still available and to see if he had a picture of the drive side. Looks rough and I wouldn't do a repaint just clean it up well and clear coat it to preserve it then do an overhaul on all the mechanicals, I like the "rustic" look on this one. I plan to make some changes to the LTD but this one would remain pretty much original except for the seatpost and stem I'd need to make it fit me. Sure wish these had been made with a taller frame but......

This Royal Scot is 1963-1965. I think there's enough adjustment in the seat post and stem of a 23" Raleigh to accommodate a 6'1" rider. If not, stems with more length and or more reach are available.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069268)
This Royal Scot is 1963-1965. I think there's enough adjustment in the seat post and stem of a 23" Raleigh to accommodate a 6'1" rider. If not, stems with more length and or more reach are available.

If they're the same as my '77 LTD-3 then not quite enough stem and seat post for this 6' 1-1/2" rider but no problem I already have a longer stem in the same style and seat post. A '63 - '65 you say? Better yet! Thanks for the info. :thumb: I''m 99.99% it's going to "follow" me home. The '77 is going to get changed around a bit but this one will remain pretty much original except for the stem and seat post....... and that HUGE saddle. Fortunately I have a period correct saddle too.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21068828)
From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069268)
This Royal Scot is 1963-1965.

Here's the rear hub, do you think it's been replaced at some point? I asked for pics of the drive side of the bike but the seller is out of town until tomorrow evening.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b966baadd8.jpg

BigChief 08-10-19 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21069363)
Here's the rear hub, do you think it's been replaced at some point? I asked for pics of the drive side of the bike but the seller is out of town until tomorrow evening.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b966baadd8.jpg

I think the hub/rear wheel was changed at some point. The 2 point chain guard, the grips, the pedals, the white fluted cable casings, the small rear reflector are all early 60s features.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069597)
I think the hub/rear wheel was changed at some point. The 2 point chain guard, the grips, the pedals, the white fluted cable casings, the small rear reflector are all early 60s features.

That's good info to know. Will the serial number tell me anything? I have a SN breakdown sheet but it is from the 70's and the examples it gives start at 1973 so I don't know if it is applicable. If it's in any kind of salvageable shape at all it's coming home with me regardless of the year but it would be very cool if it was that much older. Ir would be even cooler though if it had it's original rear wheel but most people would never notice. If it is truly a '63-'65, and I'm not doubting you one bit, then that guarantees it staying as original as possible.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d95b6f0f8.jpg

thumpism 08-10-19 08:46 PM

The niece finally got her bike after a couple of weeks of missed connections. She had gone for a test ride and said it slips when pedaling so I adjusted the shift cable but further test rides indicated slipping in low and middle gears so I pulled the rear hub apart to find the innards lightly coated with a skim of rust-colored pudding. Old lube in a dried-out hub. I was worried about broken pawl springs but nothing was broken so I soaked everything, reassembled and lubed and it worked fine so I delivered it to the happy new owner. Free bike, free lock and free helmet; all she has to do is ride it.

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21049548)
Well, my wife's niece stopped by for a visit yesterday and she said she could use a town bike so my wife offered this one...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7a6062168.jpg


BigChief 08-11-19 03:56 AM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21069718)
That's good info to know. Will the serial number tell me anything? I have a SN breakdown sheet but it is from the 70's and the examples it gives start at 1973 so I don't know if it is applicable. If it's in any kind of salvageable shape at all it's coming home with me regardless of the year but it would be very cool if it was that much older. Ir would be even cooler though if it had it's original rear wheel but most people would never notice. If it is truly a '63-'65, and I'm not doubting you one bit, then that guarantees it staying as original as possible.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d95b6f0f8.jpg

I'm pretty sure things like the reflector pedals and the bigger rear reflector that happened in the late 60s were meant to satisfy US regulations. I suppose it's possible that this bike was made with older components and imported anyway. Also, somebody here pointed out a later Canadian model that still used the old style 2 point chainguard. In any case, this bike is more like a mid 60s style than 70s.

gster 08-11-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21065939)
Yesterdays ride was a solo trip through "Sherwood Forest" ( Lynn River Rail Trail)on the nearly fifty year old, made in England, 1971 Robin Hood "Sports Model" 3 speed. Turned around in Simcoe-on-the-Lynn and headed back to the shores of Dover. The faint click-click-click of the Sturmey Archer hub provided background music. Other than the Garmin and the SPD pedals looks quite vintage. I have swapped in my apple green B17 and am looking for some nice green bar tape to match. The Honey B67 I purchased for the RH now lives on the Royal Nord. Sorry about the phone quality pictures, forgot to pick up a camera on my way out.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d9e017ae3.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...119b04a67b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2ac9b0bff.jpg

I like that colour.
I've been riding my Rodin Hood Bitsa everyday this summer to work.
Last week a car turned in front of me and I locked up the rear wheel.
On a positive note the Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show was quite a success.
I didn't take any photos....

Murray Missile 08-11-19 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070020)
I'm pretty sure things like the reflector pedals and the bigger rear reflector that happened in the late 60s were meant to satisfy US regulations. I suppose it's possible that this bike was made with older components and imported anyway. Also, somebody here pointed out a later Canadian model that still used the old style 2 point chainguard. In any case, this bike is more like a mid 60s style than 70s.

Found pics of this 1971 a few minutes ago, pretty much the same as the one I'm going to look at except for the reflector pedals and much better condition.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14dd17c88c.jpg

BigChief 08-11-19 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21070203)
Found pics of this 1971 a few minutes ago, pretty much the same as the one I'm going to look at except for the reflector pedals and much better condition.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14dd17c88c.jpg

Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard. Here's my '64. There are a few differences. The stamped mudguard stays and the overbearing seat tube transfer.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a48e8e5dd.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a88d86434.jpg

Murray Missile 08-11-19 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070521)
Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard.

I like that the '70 isn't much different from the earlier models., they must have figured if it ain't broke why fix it........ wish it had that cool seat tube decal like your '64 though.

UPDATE: Got some better pictures from the seller, it is a LOT worse than it looked in the pics they posted in the ad so I politely declined. No decals left whatsoever, front half of the rear fender bent up and heavy rust everywhere. It has clearly been laying on the weeds for several years.

Commando 08-11-19 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21065914)
Another Canadian opinion on Brooks https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8f9c5dde38.jpg

As removed from 1979 DL1. Replaced with an 90s NOS B66.
saddles. Never have seen any 60s or 70s Raleighs with B66 and almost always with the black vinyl mattress style. The only exception were the B66 on the 79 DL1 and a Wrights leather saddle on a made in England Supercycle.

It may have been mentioned before, I have my Grandad's Nottingham built Superbe, which he bought new in Ottawa around 1975-6. It had a vinyl Brooks seat from new, which I've confirmed with him, as he never made any changes to the bike while he had it. I have since fitted a B66, however.

Grace Acebedo 08-11-19 08:50 PM

Hello guys! I wanna buy a peloton bike, but it is very expensive. What do you think?

jackbombay 08-11-19 09:45 PM

Buy an English 3 speed instead.

Ballenxj 08-11-19 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21071015)
Buy an English 3 speed instead.

Good answer, especially considering this is the "For the love of English Three Speeds" thread. :thumb:

BigChief 08-12-19 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21070773)
I like that the '70 isn't much different from the earlier models., they must have figured if it ain't broke why fix it........ wish it had that cool seat tube decal like your '64 though.

UPDATE: Got some better pictures from the seller, it is a LOT worse than it looked in the pics they posted in the ad so I politely declined. No decals left whatsoever, front half of the rear fender bent up and heavy rust everywhere. It has clearly been laying on the weeds for several years.

I wouldn't put a lot of work into a bike like that either. On the other hand, a 50s Raleigh , Rudge or Birmingham basket case is always welcome.

gster 08-12-19 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070521)
Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard. Here's my '64. There are a few differences. The stamped mudguard stays and the overbearing seat tube transfer.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a48e8e5dd.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a88d86434.jpg

Q-?
Was Royal Scot a Raleigh sub brand?
I.e. sold through hardware stores, dept stores etc?

Murray Missile 08-12-19 05:38 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21071212)
Q-?
Was Royal Scot a Raleigh sub brand?
I.e. sold through hardware stores, dept stores etc?

Yes, a "lower grade" Raleigh but I'm not sure what outlets sold them. I believe they were more common out East than here in the Midwest. I had high hopes since this was a 23 inch but it was just too far gone and too new to make it worth it. If it had been out on the curb and I drove past I'm sure I would have stopped but I'm inclined to think I still would have left it there.

BigChief 08-12-19 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21071212)
Q-?
Was Royal Scot a Raleigh sub brand?
I.e. sold through hardware stores, dept stores etc?

Mine has a bike shop sticker from Wheel Goods Corp. Minneapolis . From what I understand, this was a large retailer. Raleigh may have made them especially for them.

Murray Missile 08-12-19 07:55 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21071262)
Mine has a bike shop sticker from Wheel Goods Corp. Minneapolis . From what I understand, this was a large retailer. Raleigh may have made them especially for them.

I got my '72 Grand Prix from Wheel Goods on Hennepin Ave. in Minneapolis in Sept. 1971. We were there visiting my older brother. It was my birthday and he went halves on it with me for my birthday.

oldveloman 08-12-19 12:56 PM

Yesterday, we travelled to Amsterdam to visit an art exhibition, but had a nice walk through the city as well.
As you will expect, I had one eye on the bicycles too ... :lol:

I spotted only a handfull older cottered crank bikes among the thousands of bicycles that swarm the city.
Most of the older ones, were from gazelle or Peugeot, but I also spotted these two 3-speeds : a seventies / eighties (?) Raleigh and a sixties or early seventies BSA.
Sadly, there was no time to investigate further. My wife and one of our daughters were with me, so ... :twitchy:

Peter

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...91ee7c397a.jpg

Salubrious 08-12-19 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21071262)
Mine has a bike shop sticker from Wheel Goods Corp. Minneapolis . From what I understand, this was a large retailer.

Yup! Island Cycle was the other larger retailer in Minneapolis worthy of mention.

groth 08-13-19 12:08 PM

NYC Century?
 
I notice several English 3 speed lovers live in the NYC area. Have any of you ridden your bike in the Transportation Alternatives Century? How did it go?

This year's event is on September 8. It's supposed to be the 30th and last. I'm thinking of the 50 mile route on my Raleigh Sports.

Thanks,
Ed

noglider 08-13-19 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by groth (Post 21073647)
I notice several English 3 speed lovers live in the NYC area. Have any of you ridden your bike in the Transportation Alternatives Century? How did it go?

This year's event is on September 8. It's supposed to be the 30th and last. I'm thinking of the 50 mile route on my Raleigh Sports.

Thanks,
Ed

I'll be a marshal in that event, on the 100-mile route. I will not be taking a 3-speed. A long ride is enough of a challenge. But I have seen people ride challenging bikes such as fixies. I even saw someone doing it on a unicycle, and he was so strong that I couldn't keep up with him. I don't remember seeing 3-speeds. You could do it if you wanted, though.

paulb_in_bkln 08-14-19 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by groth (Post 21073647)
I notice several English 3 speed lovers live in the NYC area. Have any of you ridden your bike in the Transportation Alternatives Century? How did it go?

This year's event is on September 8. It's supposed to be the 30th and last. I'm thinking of the 50 mile route on my Raleigh Sports.

Thanks,
Ed

As I go to the job on weekends I have not ridden this. But I wouldn't hesitate to ride my Sports; it's so comfortable in every other respect. Except possibly the upper west corner of the Bronx called Riverdale, and I haven't seen a route map, there's little in the way of challenging hills inside the city.

paulb_in_bkln 08-14-19 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21049548)

That is exactly the model (same color, too) I found on the street going very rusty and derelict late last winter. It wasn't even locked so I took possession. I had lots of plans to refurbish it, but the right crank arm was seized to the BB spindle. Nothing I did would budge it. A proper workshop probably would have let me try things that would have separated it, but there was nothing I could do working in my apt. I kept the rear wheel but otherwise, and sadly, sent it to Raleigh heaven.

adventurepdx 08-14-19 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by groth (Post 21073647)
I notice several English 3 speed lovers live in the NYC area. Have any of you ridden your bike in the Transportation Alternatives Century?...I'm thinking of the 50 mile route on my Raleigh Sports.

DO IT!
I think it's interesting that people will do things like ride single speeds, fixies, and even unicycles for these challenge events. But a three speed is "just impossible".

https://live.staticflickr.com/4897/4...795bbd80_z.jpg

jackbombay 08-14-19 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21075405)
DO IT!
I think it's interesting that people will do things like ride single speeds, fixies, and even unicycles for these challenge events. But a three speed is "just impossible".

https://live.staticflickr.com/4897/4...795bbd80_z.jpg

Heh, when I was last in NYC I rode a century on my 3 speed dahon folding bike, it has 16" wheels, it was a tough century, those itty bitty wheels just don't really roll well even with 100 PSI in them and freshly rebuilt hubs.

https://i.postimg.cc/HW6QdSBZ/B89-EE...CC00162-C7.jpg


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