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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

carleton 06-10-16 04:07 PM

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...7&d=1465591564

Whoa! That's nuts (in a good way).

I really think that minimal design may be the way to go. Sprint bikes should become more specific instead of triple-duty sprint, mass start, TT. I don't know why manufacturers don't do that.

Track sprinters spend A LOT of time, energy, and money on their sport. I'm pretty sure that they would buy a dedicated, from the ground up, sprint bike instead of the "You can sprint on it, too" offerings like the TK1 and 496.

The FES bikes seem to always have been sprint from the ground up.

gycho77 06-10-16 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18835850)
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...7&d=1465591564

Whoa! That's nuts (in a good way).

I really think that minimal design may be the way to go. Sprint bikes should become more specific instead of triple-duty sprint, mass start, TT. I don't know why manufacturers don't do that.

Track sprinters spend A LOT of time, energy, and money on their sport. I'm pretty sure that they would buy a dedicated, from the ground up, sprint bike instead of the "You can sprint on it, too" offerings like the TK1 and 496.

The FES bikes seem to always have been sprint from the ground up.

That's why I love FES track bikes.
They are really good at designing their frames.
Also look at Kristina Vogel's handlebar(on the right), she is using the new carbon handlebar(maybe C4cycleworks handlebar)
I really want to see detail pictures of the handlebar

gycho77 06-10-16 08:53 PM

Dolan DF4 is on sale!!!
Dolan Bikes - Frames/Framesets - Deals
20percent discount

Dalai 06-11-16 06:10 AM

I love the FES purely because it is made with German unobtanium...

gycho77 06-12-16 01:39 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Another new FES track frame!!!!!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527021
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527022
So aero~~~~~~~ lol

German national team unveil new FES bike - Cycling Weekly

gycho77 06-12-16 05:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Found a better piicture of sprinter FES frame
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527061

carleton 06-12-16 06:35 PM

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1465773067

I think that's the closest thing I've seen to a from the ground up redesign of a sprint frame ever.

Also note the double-bolts for the seat clamp. No unexpected tilting ever.

It suffers a lot of the "not for consumer use" issues that the TK1 does (aero seatpost, proprietary stem, and standard hubs won't work on fork). Also, custom bars needed for the custom stem.

But, damn, it looks bad-ass. This is my new favorite sprint bike.

SprintzNKiloz 06-13-16 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18836426)
Dolan DF4 is on sale!!!
Dolan Bikes - Frames/Framesets - Deals
20percent discount

<palms face> Oh well, I knew it was coming.

gycho77 06-13-16 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by SprintzNKiloz (Post 18841339)
<palms face> Oh well, I knew it was coming.

I hope FES sell Kristina Vogel's old track frame.:p

SprintzNKiloz 06-13-16 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18841962)
I hope FES sell Kristina Vogel's old track frame.:p

We can all hope. Even the old FES frames are hot.

brawlo 06-13-16 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18840465)
It suffers a lot of the "not for consumer use" issues that the TK1 does (aero seatpost, proprietary stem, and standard hubs won't work on fork). Also, custom bars needed for the custom stem.

I saw someone mention that the stems are 3D printed. No verification on whether that is true though, but an interesting claim all the same.

taras0000 06-13-16 11:09 PM

Best thing about the FES is the bars. I had thought of having something similar done up in steel back when I was still racing. Just a long stem "T" with hooks welded on the ends. No bar tops.

queerpunk 06-14-16 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18843623)
Best thing about the FES is the bars. I had thought of having something similar done up in steel back when I was still racing. Just a long stem "T" with hooks welded on the ends. No bar tops.

I wonder if the goal is to get the stem and tops down to the top tube and take them out of some other airflow.

Everybody's getting on this train of funny-looking bolt-on interfaces for the front wheel/fork. I wonder what that backward extension is about - it's on that new Pinarello that Wiggins debuted in his Hour, and I think it's on the Felt too.

taras0000 06-14-16 07:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18843946)
I wonder if the goal is to get the stem and tops down to the top tube and take them out of some other airflow.

Everybody's getting on this train of funny-looking bolt-on interfaces for the front wheel/fork. I wonder what that backward extension is about - it's on that new Pinarello that Wiggins debuted in his Hour, and I think it's on the Felt too.

My goal with the bars was to eliminate wrist banging on standing starts, and hopefully increase stiffness at the same time (less material for flex).

The fork tips are there to smooth airflow/eliminate (reduce) vortices at the tips of the fork blades. They act in a similar way to winglets on the end of airplane wings. At the airplane scale, they save fuel, increase aerodynamics, and generate forward lift. Miniscule savings on the fork blade level, but the theory is sound.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527409

gycho77 06-15-16 12:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Better view of FES sprinter handlebar
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527437
To me the handlebar looks like new 3T scatto.

carleton 06-15-16 12:32 AM

At this point, we aren't far from this:

http://www.pedalroom.com/p/takhion-s...ke-14932_5.jpg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...4ef61e0cad.jpg
http://www.pedalroom.com/p/rossin-pu...sr-23682_2.jpg

I wouldn't be mad if someone made a similar design of modern materials. I'd love to see a concept bike built as a real production candidate.

Not sure if it would be UCI legal with the bars setup that way or not.

brawlo 06-15-16 12:46 AM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18846165)
Better view of FES sprinter handlebar
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527437
To me the handlebar looks like new 3T scatto.

From that angle it definitely looks like a 3T scatto with less drop, or like a BT where the 'wings' stay horizontal rather than drop down. So does this mean we're going back to the low head tube frames, but with super shallow bar drops to compensate?

taras0000 06-15-16 01:10 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18846166)

Not sure if it would be UCI legal with the bars setup that way or not.

UCI outlawed that set up years ago. "Handlebars for road and track racing must be of the traditional type". Not to say you couldn't race it at a non UCI event. You would need a dedicated bike. The headset is a little different, so I don't really see headset swaps as part of the handlebar swap routine during a session's racing.

SprintzNKiloz 06-15-16 10:42 AM

I love that Rossin. Also, the RIO LOOK R96 appears to be out, but can't tell if it's all that different.

gycho77 06-15-16 10:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Maybe this is the future track handlebar lol
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=527559
sorry about fixie picture....

Koogar 06-15-16 10:39 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18843946)
...I wonder what that backward extension is about - it's on that new Pinarello that Wiggins debuted in his Hour, and I think it's on the Felt too.


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18845731)
The fork tips are there to smooth airflow/eliminate (reduce) vortices at the tips of the fork blades. They act in a similar way to winglets on the end of airplane wings....

I can't make out the fork ends too well, but I can't see how that would work. I'm no aerodynamicist, but I am a (sadly noncurrent) pilot, so I have had an interest in the subject. I've always conceptualized the primary function of winglets as reducing induced drag by smoothing the interaction of the high and low pressure regions at the end of the airfoil, a bit like an aerodynamic fence. Even if you treat the fork blades as airfoils that both have an angle of attack that is producing lift (i.e., differential pressure) they'd need lateral protrusions. That seems like something that would give the UCI fits. They could just be fairings or extensions meant to smooth airflow around the wheelnut / axle area. I guess you can always make an argument for incremental gains....

krusty 06-16-16 11:13 AM

Carleton,
I love your iPhone apps, but why doesn't your gear calculator show the number of skid patches?


:p

carleton 06-16-16 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by krusty (Post 18849972)
Carleton,
I love your iPhone apps, but why doesn't your gear calculator show the number of skid patches?


:p

:-|

gycho77 06-16-16 01:20 PM

hahaha he's making Carleton uncomfortable

taras0000 06-17-16 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by Koogar (Post 18848815)
I can't make out the fork ends too well, but I can't see how that would work. I'm no aerodynamicist, but I am a (sadly noncurrent) pilot, so I have had an interest in the subject. I've always conceptualized the primary function of winglets as reducing induced drag by smoothing the interaction of the high and low pressure regions at the end of the airfoil, a bit like an aerodynamic fence. Even if you treat the fork blades as airfoils that both have an angle of attack that is producing lift (i.e., differential pressure) they'd need lateral protrusions. That seems like something that would give the UCI fits. They could just be fairings or extensions meant to smooth airflow around the wheelnut / axle area. I guess you can always make an argument for incremental gains....


The bold is correct. The current design of winglets is what works optimally for planes at the speeds they travel. You can achieve a similar (albeit much smaller and not as effective) effect by sweeping the wingtips back, as well as increasing the wetted area of the wingtips. This only works at lower airpeeds, so may have bicycle applications where it works. It essentially tries to disrupt vortex formation, (by allowing the low and high pressure streams to meet along the trailing edge before spilling over the wingtip) instead of channeling and reducing the size of vortices as with the perpendicular design.

My guess is infinitely marginal performance gains, yet measurable marketing gains $$$$$.

Koogar 06-17-16 09:10 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18853461)
The bold is correct. The current design of winglets is what works optimally for planes at the speeds they travel. You can achieve a similar (albeit much smaller and not as effective) effect by sweeping the wingtips back, as well as increasing the wetted area of the wingtips. This only works at lower airpeeds, so may have bicycle applications where it works. It essentially tries to disrupt vortex formation, (by allowing the low and high pressure streams to meet along the trailing edge before spilling over the wingtip) instead of channeling and reducing the size of vortices as with the perpendicular design.

My guess is infinitely marginal performance gains, yet measurable marketing gains $$$$$.

I'm still not following you, Taras. Vortex formation in the context of winglets is relevant because of its effect on induced drag - the backward component of lift (compared to the direction of travel) when an airfoil is creating lift. Form drag and interference drag effects are for the most part more relevant to bicycles (because most parts aren't claimed to create lift). So the whole idea of functioning winglets for bicycles, however you describe them, doesn't make sense to me. Nevertheless, we clearly agree on the upshot, i.e., the bold is very likely correct ;)

queerpunk 07-01-16 01:10 PM

Here's an interesting find around the web:
Feb 25-26, there will be a Track World Cup in Los Angeles.

See y'all there!

carleton 07-01-16 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18882956)
Here's an interesting find around the web:
Feb 25-26, there will be a Track World Cup in Los Angeles.

See y'all there!

Ha! Really? Nice! It's been a long time since the last one.

700wheel 07-01-16 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18882956)
Here's an interesting find around the web:
Feb 25-26, there will be a Track World Cup in Los Angeles.

See y'all there!


The other 20016/2017 world cup venues are listed here:
The UCI reveals 2016-2017 UCI Track Cycling World Cup calendar

gycho77 07-01-16 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18882956)
Here's an interesting find around the web:
Feb 25-26, there will be a Track World Cup in Los Angeles.

See y'all there!

Awesome!!!
I will be in LA for next five years.
I should take my chainrings and get it signed by my favorite cyclists lol


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