Front wheel hitting shoes
 

Hi all,

Trying to get my head around this...

I bought some new shoes - Specialized - and fitted cleats on in exactly the same position as they are on my old ones. Took the bike out for a test spin with the newies and almost came off on my ear at the end of the road while floating to wait for traffic to pass. I then came home and pulled the cleats forward as far as possible now but still the same problem so, essentially, these shoes are unusable. I've done a search online but found no real answers, including a forum post where someone was having the same problem and was advised to just pedal-tap while turning at a slow pace. Obviously that's ridiculously dangerous advice and just a disaster waiting to happen.

Can anyone shed some light on this as I'm flummoxed? I've never ever seen anything that advises certain shoes aren't suitable for certain bikes or frame sizes or whatever.

Cheers,
J

What bike is it? What shoe size?

It's an ORRO Terra, Medium frame. Shoe size 44.

You now have 'toe overlap'. I have had it on every road and track bike I've ever had. It is no where near as serious as you seem to think it is. Thousands of riders deal with it every day.

...this ^^^. If I got rid of all the bikes in the garage with overlap, I could get it down to a more manageable number of bicycles. When you pause as you ride, establish the habit of resting your pedals up and down, not fore and aft, and it becomes less problematic.

I've got toe overlap on my bikes as well, and I deal with it. But I'm willing to unclip and put a foot down at a stop sign or red light; people who insist on track standing when stopped have a problem.

When does the front wheel hit your shoes? While stopped or while riding? Unless you ride slower than a person can walk, I'd think it unlikely you are going to turn the wheel far enough for interference.

Unless perhaps you are a BMX style rider.

It is something I'd expect on most every bike out there. It's just that most haven't figured that out or they realize it only will happen while stopped. So be careful how the wheel is pointed before you go.

I have had toe overlap on almost every road bike I’ve ever owned. It’s worse if you have fenders for the rain. It is what it is. You get used to it.

Madness! I've been riding since the late '80s, including racing up until about 1997, and have had (I think) about 6 road bikes and whatever amount of pairs of shoes in all that time but have never encountered this before, or even heard it mentioned by anyone until I searched for this today.

The only time I ever had toe-overlap was when I rode into the side of a car (it pulled out in front of me) and afterwards on the ride home the front wheel hit my shoe on a slow turn. Turns out the frame had bent in the crash.

So are you saying that toe-overlap is the modern norm, then?

I have toe overlap on my new gravel bike. Wish it didn't, but such is life.

Oh, and I like track standing at red lights. I wasn't aware I had a problem. Good to know.

I'm not, all my old bikes had toe overlap. Except for maybe the cruiser style frame I had as my first bike.

It's definitely a thing from long ago that is not a problem except to those that never knew about it and encountered it for the first time.

While it's unusual that one pair of shoes would be so different from another, especially with cleats moved forward (not a good idea IMO),

Toe overlap is common and more of an annoyance than a disaster.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6fc0966c92.jpg

Looks like I have to unlearn some old tricks. It happened a few times in the space of only a few minutes - first at the end of the road when waiting for traffic to pass so I could turn into the main road, then making a turn from the main road onto a steep uphill, which is a hairpin junction from a slight downhill right into a 9% gradient, so turning the wheel while pedalling has always been my approach to that (now impossible to do with these shoes), and then when I sacked the ride and u-turned at the next junction to go back home.

I had a pair of Specialized shoes for a bit, & found them to be pointy and narrow in the toe area, so maybe those are not the best shoes for your set up.

Me and my son where stopped at a traffic light waiting to go. He'd let his front wheel flop completely to the side while stopped. When the green came to go, he started pedaling before getting his wheel fully straight. I watched and laughed, I'd done the same thing long ago, now he too learned about toe overlap or interference.

Some bikes don't some bikes do. But it's an operator issue. To change it up will alter other ride and handling characteristics some of us might want for the bike.

Yeah, but it's not the same thing. Track standing for 10-15 seconds to allow cars to pass will involve an amount of maneuvering of the front wheel to stay up. In over 30 years of never having an overlap issue doing this despite 6 different bikes and 4 or 5 pairs of shoes in all that time, it's not exactly the mistake of a newbie or young bike rider not fully aware of the mechanics of bike riding.

Anyway, just reading up on this now and watching some videos. I'm going to go for different shoes instead rather than change riding habits of over 30 years that have never given any problems.

Regardless of all the 'deal with it' approaches, though, it surely can't be seen as safe practice across the board. Scuffy shoes obviously means that toe hits are common enough so to me it's just not safe practise.

Is there anyone on here who opted to go what I would call the 'safe' route and get different shoes and if so, is there a way of telling by the geometry of a shoe if it will eliminate toe-overlap on a given frame size?

By the way, cheers for all the info, guys. You learn something new every day! :thumb:
J

No, that's reasonable to try to do things to minimize it. Shorter cranks and narrower tires will help toward that too. So will moving the cleat forward on your shoe. But maybe in the bigger picture, that will change those other characteristics you want to keep. Though to me those are undesirable changes for the insignificance of this issue for me.

Now that you are aware of it, it's an easy check when you buy your next bike.

I've fallen a few times due to toe overlap during super low speed, super tight turns. Less/no toe overlap is now a huge factor for me for N+1 hunting.

I've never had this problem but I was wondering if slightly shorter crank arms a decent solution to this?

Change shoes. That is the easiest and cheapest solution. It is basically a wheelbase (frame size or head angle) and/or crank arm length issue.

Life is too short to change 30 years of riding and learn to live with it over a pair of shoes. There is no rite of passage on this one. You’ll need to spend some time to replicate your old shoe style.

I have toe overlap on my Cannondale Criterium. Changing shoes won’t help and I’ve learned to live with it rather than change bikes.

John

This is pretty much a short person problem. If you're right on the edge, a fender or a long pair of shoes or a set of long cranks will put you over, but if you normally ride frames about 51 or smaller, you get used to always having overlap unless you go with a Terry 24" front wheel setup (which is one reason why she did that).

Me too. Since way back to friction shifting 5 speed freewheels. I ride pretty typical 54 cm frames and wear 9.5US (42-43 Eur) shoes. Nothing especially small in the frame department or large in the shoe department. I've always thought it was normal, easy to avoid, just don't do it sort of deal. Kind of like learning not to cross chain when it was actually a bad thing to do (not so much anymore) or learning to corner with the inside pedal in the up position.

If you consider the 60s to be "modern"

I often encounter the problem, because I rebuild many children's bikes. It is even more scary when you forget, ride toward a wall and then realise you cannot steer enough because you have have already begun to lean into the turn but your leading foot is down and forward - and blocking the wheel...

And sometimes you only have a coaster brake :)

My grown-up Dutch bike is so much easier on the mind.

I find this is common on many bicycles but most people are not aware of it.