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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 01-14-15 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17468704)
Ok, I found the serial number.. The paint is thick, but the number appears to be 1624904. According to Sheldon Brown and Kurt Kaminer, that would date the manufacture of the frame to 1970, although it could have been built up for sale as late as 1973. Maybe the hub is original then. I also found a clamp on the down tube that has no purpose. I took a photo of it.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428401

It looks like the shifter cable housing goes all the way to the back, instead of being on a pulley. Is that correct? It's interesting that it has a pump mount, too.

dweenk 01-14-15 11:15 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 17468936)
It looks like the shifter cable housing goes all the way to the back, instead of being on a pulley. Is that correct? It's interesting that it has a pump mount, too.

Yes, the cable housing runs all the way to the chain stay, and it is the same ribbed housing as the brake housing. That is the lower pump peg that you see.

I just tested the lights, both front and rear lights work, but some of the wire is frayed and holding together by a few strands. Should I rewire or splice the bad spot(s)?

Velocivixen 01-14-15 11:43 AM

@dweenk & @noglider - you guys are funny! When I go on my first "Tweed" or "3-Speed Ride" I will sure to impress as I will bring a cotter press! (Hey, that rhymes);)

noglider 01-14-15 11:47 AM

Funny because it's apt. Why do you think you get so much attention here?

Salubrious 01-14-15 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17468418)
@Salubrious - the threads from the ends of the pin are in the center of the nut. In other words, there is more room for the nut to be screwed on more. So you're saying I should have more of the threads at the end of the cotter pin engaged by the nut? If so I may just take to the bike coop. I don't have the tools to file (not sure what's needed) and don't have a way to make positively sure they're filed equally. I guess I could just get cotter pins that are filed down more.

As a rule of thumb, any time there is a nut, the threads of the bolt or whatever its for should always go all the way through the nut, with at least a thread or two exposed. There may be special exceptions to that rule but this is not one of them. The filing is not that tricky, especially if the remains of the old cotter pin are available. Just lay the new and the old side by side and draw a line across the new cotter pin that is an average between where the face ends on the new cotter and where it ends on the old one. Then file (or grind) the cotter to meet that line. I would then try it in the crank to see how well it fits- it may be that is all the grinding you need to do. If the threads of the cotter pin still run short of being exposed then you may have to grind the pin so it matches the original.

Once you get one pin fitted, then its fairly easy to get the other one fitted by simply matching it to the first. This is a fairly easy task overall if you have access to a grinder and know how to use it.

Bikesmith (Mark Stonich) has a jig in which he can place the cotter pin and then runs the grinder on it- the result is the correct face for Raleigh cranks. But I am betting that being pre-Raleigh, the faces you need will be a little different.

You can ride the bike the way it is but only to test it. Without the pins seated correctly the crank will be weaker.

crank_addict 01-14-15 11:18 PM

I'm sorting through my DL-1 project as a preservation and wheel rebuild but happened to come across the Brothers Rich site. Sorry, no three speed but yet rather interesting with the Soma / Lauterwasser bars and stripped down look. Anyone try these bars for the DL-1? Or crazier yet, configure for the rod brake levers?

brothers rich ? The Charleston

http://www.cycleexif.com/wp-content/...eigh-dl1-1.jpg

http://cycleexifcom.c.presscdn.com/w...eigh-dl1-8.jpg

gster 01-15-15 07:12 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 17471347)
I'm sorting through my DL-1 project as a preservation and wheel rebuild but happened to come across the Brothers Rich site. Sorry, no three speed but yet rather interesting with the Soma / Lauterwasser bars and stripped down look. Anyone try these bars for the DL-1? Or crazier yet, configure for the rod brake levers?

brothers rich ? The Charleston

http://www.cycleexif.com/wp-content/...eigh-dl1-1.jpg

http://cycleexifcom.c.presscdn.com/w...eigh-dl1-8.jpg

I have an Indian built Windsor bicycle with rod and lever brakes and inverted bars.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428594http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428595http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428596

crank_addict 01-15-15 11:46 AM

^^ gster- Looks terrific! Being so raked, they look super comfy but imagine the handling is lazy.


I'm sort of thinking partially going in this direction. Whatever transformation I decide, all will be reversible and original parts saved. Its going to be rider and will have some long days in the saddle. Might even ride a few organized century's with it.

My DL-1 is fairly rough cosmetically, but its straight and no frame rust. A good candidate to convert. The chrome parts leave much to desire. The steel Westwood style rims are toast anyways and a fellow forum member has offered the aluminum Endrick type. I'm learning as I go along, and well aware how bad the rod brakes work, but they look so neat. Hoping the upgrade wheels will do the trick and better brake pads.
I'll probably use an early shifter and mount it on the top tube.

Other: Neat article of a young Jack Rossiter riding a Raleigh Club - 1929 Lands End TT
ipernity: Raleigh Racers: North Road, Club & Record Models, 1925-1933 by Peter Kohler

gster 01-16-15 08:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 17472367)
^^ gster- Looks terrific! Being so raked, they look super comfy but imagine the handling is lazy.


I'm sort of thinking partially going in this direction. Whatever transformation I decide, all will be reversible and original parts saved. Its going to be rider and will have some long days in the saddle. Might even ride a few organized century's with it.

My DL-1 is fairly rough cosmetically, but its straight and no frame rust. A good candidate to convert. The chrome parts leave much to desire. The steel Westwood style rims are toast anyways and a fellow forum member has offered the aluminum Endrick type. I'm learning as I go along, and well aware how bad the rod brakes work, but they look so neat. Hoping the upgrade wheels will do the trick and better brake pads.
I'll probably use an early shifter and mount it on the top tube.

Other: Neat article of a young Jack Rossiter riding a Raleigh Club - 1929 Lands End TT
ipernity: Raleigh Racers: North Road, Club & Record Models, 1925-1933 by Peter Kohler

You're right. Not the easiest bike to ride. The front wheel is way out front and the rod brakes are "iffy" at best. I don't really ride it that much as it's mostly a shine and show bike. But I still like it. It was the first one I put together after seeing a Pashley Guv'nor and realized that I couldn't afford the price tag so decided to build my own version. The bike originally had fenders and a chain guard which were discarded and was missing one of the brake brackets. Also, no gears on this one. Good article on the Raleigh Ravers.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=428697

sloar 01-16-15 09:27 AM

Picked up this Humber Sports 3 speed. In the process of a restoration. Plans are to just clean the crap out of it, paint and chrome should shine up. New cables and tires and ride it. Its a learning experience working on these types of bikes, some of this stuff I have never messed with. The biggest issue will be dent removal of the chain case and rear fender.


http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...ps563ee962.jpg

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...psfc252666.jpg


http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...ps28bc6eb0.jpg

sloar 01-16-15 09:28 AM

A little cleaning on the paint..Hard to tell in the cell phone pics, but that old lacquer paint shined up pretty nice.


http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4b506f63.jpg



http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1e3bde5a.jpg



http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/...ps26bb0447.jpg

noglider 01-16-15 09:36 AM

Why do rod brakes work so badly?

nlerner 01-16-15 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17474860)
Why do rod brakes work so badly?

Physics.

Salubrious 01-16-15 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by sloar (Post 17474834)
Picked up this Humber Sports 3 speed. In the process of a restoration. Plans are to just clean the crap out of it, paint and chrome should shine up. New cables and tires and ride it. Its a learning experience working on these types of bikes, some of this stuff I have never messed with. The biggest issue will be dent removal of the chain case and rear fender.


Sweet- not an easy machine to find! Have you sorted out what year? I have a Gent's in the 23" size with a matching Lady's machine. The latter had a '70s wheel on it- gave me an excuse to fit it with CR18s, after I found a hub from the right period (early 1950s). The Gent's was in deplorable condition and from the looks of it did not clean up as well as yours will. It got CR18s as well. It came with a 4-speed alloy hub; I put Continental City Rides (37-590, 26 x 13/8", 650A whatever) on it, and I have to say I was amazed at what a fine ride it is- a lot faster than it looks and very confidence inspiring.

sloar 01-16-15 11:45 AM

Hub is dated 1954.

noglider 01-16-15 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17474898)
Physics.

Wise guy. The lever travel is about the same, and so is the pad travel. Is a lot of energy lost in the rod linkages?

Velocivixen 01-16-15 01:07 PM

@sloar - fantastic find! I hope you do a thread for it. I'm very interested to see & learn more, as I'm just finishing mine.


There's a wire on my SA front headlight, holding the lens part onto the body part of the light. Supposed to be a little bolt/nut, so I tried metric with no success - wrong threading. Went to hardware store & bought 6/32" which was the perfect diameter - wrong threading again! Is this WHITWORTH again?! Body of light holds a magnet, so maybe steel. Think I'm going to go get a tap & re-tap the threads. Advice??

Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

i used the actual Park cotter pin press to push the cotter pins in deeper so the nut would engage on more threads with great success. In the meantime I bought more pins along with a single cut 8" "B*****d file".

crank_addict 01-16-15 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17474860)
Why do rod brakes work so badly?

Disregard for the moment, pad compounds, steel rim, etc..

Its about being half the clamping force. The force is pushed one way vs. a side fighting side.

sloar 01-16-15 01:26 PM

They are whitworth, luckily I have the tools from a triumph chopper I built several years ago. Only two problems so far, the stem had to be cut out, but I have a replacement and the cotter pins were a *****. But nothing my "big a@# vise" couldn't handle.

Slash5 01-16-15 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17475462)
Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

Is the heat shrink to go over the exposed shifter cable? I'm just about to replace a shifter cable and I was just going to leave the cable as is - exposed. The old one has a coating of some sort. Is there a reason I should have the covering?

Velocivixen 01-16-15 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 17475542)
Is the heat shrink to go over the exposed shifter cable? I'm just about to replace a shifter cable and I was just going to leave the cable as is - exposed. The old one has a coating of some sort. Is there a reason I should have the covering?

I'm doing the heat shrink tubing because my original one has tubing on the exposed part. I think with new cables rust wouldn't be an issue. I'm doing it for the experience & for the "vintage" aspect. Earlier in this thread, or maybe in my other thread about the "1955 Phillips" I linked a thread from Auchencrow from a few years back where he details the steps for doing this. But, no, you don't need the tubing on the cable.

Salubrious 01-16-15 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by sloar (Post 17475219)
Hub is dated 1954.

Sweet.


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17475462)
There's a wire on my SA front headlight, holding the lens part onto the body part of the light. Supposed to be a little bolt/nut, so I tried metric with no success - wrong threading. Went to hardware store & bought 6/32" which was the perfect diameter - wrong threading again! Is this WHITWORTH again?! Body of light holds a magnet, so maybe steel. Think I'm going to go get a tap & re-tap the threads. Advice??

Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

i used the actual Park cotter pin press to push the cotter pins in deeper so the nut would engage on more threads with great success. In the meantime I bought more pins along with a single cut 8" "B*****d file".

Yes- likely Whitworth. You can expect that on any British mechanical hardware made before the 1970s or so. There are variations in not only thread pitch, but the shape of the threads themselves. If you tap it for an English (American) thread, don't tell anyone :) most of all not us...

Good work on the cotter pins. If you have 1/4" to 3/8" of the cotter pin exposed on the non-nutted side you are in good shape.

BTW I noticed that you have a plastic cable pulley for the shift cable. A bike that old was originally equipped with a metal pulley, which you can get from the gentleman cyclist, jon@gentlemancyclist.com

crank_addict 01-16-15 02:15 PM

For shifter / cable pulley roller, go to an Ace Hardware and sort thru the drawers for the little pulley's. Sliding screen door lower rollers work but you might have to make some small bushing.

other: Cable without plastic sheath for early bikes. Replacement new Weinmann can be shaved off revealing the metal coiling. Just coat with an aerosol spray and wipe wax or simply a rust preventive formula. I much prefer this look and its so easy to maintain without removing for lube.

Velocivixen 01-16-15 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17475589)
Sweet.



Yes- likely Whitworth. You can expect that on any British mechanical hardware made before the 1970s or so. There are variations in not only thread pitch, but the shape of the threads themselves. If you tap it for an English (American) thread, don't tell anyone :) most of all not us...

Good work on the cotter pins. If you have 1/4" to 3/8" of the cotter pin exposed on the non-nutted side you are in good shape.

BTW I noticed that you have a plastic cable pulley for the shift cable. A bike that old was originally equipped with a metal pulley, which you can get from the gentleman cyclist, jon@gentlemancyclist.com

. The cable pulley is fully metal. I've taken every nut, bolt, clip, etc. off the bike and no plastic parts.:thumb:

markk900 01-16-15 03:47 PM

@sloar: awesome and very original looking find. I am working on my 49 "Light sports" (ie. no full chaincase).


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17475203)
...gave me an excuse to fit it with CR18s, after I found a hub from the right period (early 1950s). The Gent's was in deplorable condition and from the looks of it did not clean up as well as yours will. It got CR18s as well. It came with a 4-speed alloy hub; I put Continental City Rides (37-590, 26 x 13/8", 650A whatever) on it, and I have to say I was amazed at what a fine ride it is- a lot faster than it looks and very confidence inspiring.

I am anxiously awaiting my CR18s and Panaracer Col de Vie's which have cleared customs and are supposedly on their way to me. Will be a fun project to replace the original rims, much as I like them, but the braking surfaces are crap with rust.


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