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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

DiabloScott 08-12-23 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981558)
I do think that not nailing the original stitch locations can result in an unnecessarily lumpy tire though. Those are never fun.

Oh, it's worse than that - I'm really fortunate I don't get many flats.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99c03984ee.jpg
Is it possible to do a worse job?

spclark 08-12-23 09:20 AM

What Brand of Tire?
 
In my admittedly limited experiences dealing with stitching up sew-up tires I've yet to encounter a tire with that kind of lock-stitch on the left.

I see it often on the birdseed bags my wife asks me to empty into the galvanized cans she stores it in; easy to open ("Just Pull This Tab") but nothing I'd ever attempt repairing by hand.

If you managed to get that done w/o holing the tube inside I commend you!

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22982140)
In my admittedly limited experiences dealing with stitching up sew-up tires I've yet to encounter a tire with that kind of lock-stitch on the left.

Conti used that stitch with their Triathlon and Sprinter tires back when I rode them.

BTW: that's not too hard with a stitching awl if you go very carefully which you should be doing
regardless of whether you're doing a lock stitch or zig-zag.

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22982126)

:twitchy: :eek: Keep far away from my tires if you please.

AdventureManCO 08-12-23 10:33 AM

Hey all, got a quick question.

I have a Tufo Challenge Elite tubby, and its got a small pinhole leak somewhere. When I stick it under water, the bubble slowly come up, but it is not enough to hear.

Is it worth it to try to use some sealant first, before ripping the tire off, ripping the casing off, undoing the stitching, and having at a patch? I've heard real mixed opinions sealant with tubulars. FWIW I cannot see the bubble coming out from the tread, they are coming out of the tire/rim interface. Tiny bubbles, mind you, but not sure if this tire might be a good candidate for the sealant first.

Thanks for all opinions!

Classtime 08-12-23 11:03 AM

I believe Tufo tires are designed with sealant in mind.

spclark 08-12-23 11:28 AM

Pinhole, not a puncture?

The latter's fairly easy to diagnose but will take time to disassemble tire & tube to first find then fix defect best with a proper patch then inspection of the casing for the agent of puncture if it's still there.

Pinhole as you describe is tougher; it may best benefit from sealant injected into the valve (if you can manage that) due to the difficulty of locating it with any confidence.

Remember tubulars have been around for a long time, well before modern sealants became available. Their use in tubulars I think is a practical one in cases such as yours.

My limited experience has me close to injecting sealant (just received an 8 oz bottle from WTB last week) into the decade+ old Vittoria and Continental tires I bought maybe sometime back around 2007 when I was last riding my road bike.

I have a new pair of 27mm Challenge Stradas as well now, likely will put sealant in those (removable Presta valve stems help!) before gluing them to the original MAVIC rims, my (so far) only pair of wheels for that bike.

(And, reading your personal data I never knew Home Depot sold tubulars?)

Road Fan 08-12-23 06:37 PM

Ok, so it's clear the consensus is that with tape or glue, it's a good idea to solvent wipe the rim bed and the rim strip area, at least, before taping.
What can I substitute for mineral spirits if I don't have that actual material, to wipe off the gluing surfaces of a tubular tire and its rim?

spclark 08-12-23 07:04 PM

Depends...
 
... a lot on where you live, what kind of solvents are available to you and what those various products are called.

In the US you can find odorless mineral spirits, paint thinner, brush cleaner, and pure turpentine. Those all have similar uses while somewhat variable chemical components.

Then there's lacquer thinner, acetone, Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Xylene, all much more powerful solvents than those mentioned earlier.

They're all flammable and shouldn't be in contact with your skin. The latter bunch are more aggressive, vapors more harmful in concentration, more likely to ignite when a source of ignition is close by (light switch, hot light bulb, any open flame) so should be used with proper precautions and ventilation, proper gloves at minimum for PPE.

Those last will make short work of cleaning away old tire cement, the others will take more work.

For cleaning new, unused rims you can use denatured alcohol, essentially ethanol with a dash of methanol most often added (so as to avoid taxes paid on spirits intended for drinking) but in some countries it's no longer sold to consumers.

A common substitute may be marine stove fuel or less commonly what may be called 'white spirit' or white gas, or even naptha.

JohnDThompson 08-12-23 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22982603)
Ok, so it's clear the consensus is that with tape or glue, it's a good idea to solvent wipe the rim bed and the rim strip area, at least, before taping.
What can I substitute for mineral spirits if I don't have that actual material, to wipe off the gluing surfaces of a tubular tire and its rim?

I use a wire wheel mounted on a bench grinder. Less than a minute per wheel, not nasty solvents, no tiresome scrubbing:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afa559617e.jpg

MooneyBloke 08-13-23 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22982677)
I use a wire wheel mounted on a bench grinder. Less than a minute per wheel, not nasty

Isn't that going to remove some material from the bed of the rim over time? Outside of an initial roughing-up and braking, I'd like to remove as little metal from the rim as possible.

spclark 08-13-23 07:24 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22982882)
Isn't that going to remove some material from the bed of the rim over time?

Potential's there for that, aluminum being fairly soft. Speed of removal's easily managed by careful application of wheel-to-wirebrush.

There's a risk of bits of wire being thrown off the spinning arbor so if you choose this method please wear eye protection (maybe face too?) and long-sleeve shirt with the cuffs securely buttoned. Also best to carefully inspect the cleaned rim, ensure there's no bits of wire hiding inside that could find their way between rim and newly glued tire later on down the road.

Aardwolf 08-13-23 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22982625)
.A common substitute may be marine stove fuel or less commonly what may be called 'white spirit' or white gas, or even naptha.

I've previously done some research regarding naphtha - used for cleaning accordion reeds, but now quite difficult to find in the UK.
Also works great for cleaning brake tracks on rims to reduce squeal.

Coleman Fuel for outdoor stoves/heaters
£10/litre
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coleman-Liq...ps%2C93&sr=8-1

"Coleman Fuel Is A Mix Of Petroleum Naphtha With A Bit Of Rust Inhibitor"

SJX426 08-13-23 07:55 AM

Use a brass wire wheel.

Fredo76 08-13-23 09:48 AM

Or a pocket-knife blade, over a couple hours, the old-school way - don't stab yourself though!

Road Fan 08-13-23 12:41 PM

Well, my anodized Mavic GP-4 rims don't have the pink post-glue build-up, because the Jantex tape did not leave any, and I had cleaned the rim bed with the wire brush before installing the Tufo tape or the Jantex tape. I only need a surface degreasing, now. My main concern with the process is to prevent, as a previous writer suggested, that solvents don't attach the tire materials, glue and such, which holds the carcass together under inflation/riding pressures. I worry about that with glue not designed for cycling, (such as Contac) and degreasers.

BTW, my Jantex attachment of the Gommitalia tires has been perfectly reliable.

I really can't see any product information on solvents which does not suggest that except perhaps for smell, a half-dozen different products with different technical names are really not different at all. There has been a suggestion that some solvents may damage the carcass of a tubular tire, but no anecdotes or corroboration that the problem has been real or hazardous. Anybody think this is more that a mildly suspected potential problem?

spclark 08-13-23 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22983135)
My main concern with the process is to prevent, as a previous writer suggested, that solvents don't attach the tire materials, glue and such, which holds the carcass together under inflation/riding pressures. I worry about that with glue not designed for cycling, (such as Contac) and degreasers.

Solvents used to remove rim glue residue should be chosen for their ability to dissolve the residue and carry it into whatever is used to apply it (Scotchbrite abrasive is my preferred material or plain white cotton cloth from worn-out T-shirts) then evaporate quickly and thoroughly. Their purpose is to ensure there's no contamination present on the cleaned rims that would marginalize the grip of newly applied glue or tape.


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22983135)
I really can't see any product information on solvents which does not suggest that except perhaps for smell, a half-dozen different products with different technical names are really not different at all.

That's marketing for you. Or simply tradition, as in the case of turpentine or paint thinner. The former should be relatively pure turpentine, the latter can be combinations of any number of solvents that serve the purpose. If you look up the MSDS sheets for the various products you're considering there should be a list of included chemicals though likely not much about their various percentage contributions.


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22983135)
There has been a suggestion that some solvents may damage the carcass of a tubular tire, but no anecdotes or corroboration that the problem has been real or hazardous.

Petroleum-based oils are well known to degrade natural and some synthetic rubbers if left in contact long enough. Many solvents and other chemicals will as well over time.

But again I emphasize that any solvent used to clean rims ought to have evaporated 100% well before new tire glue or tape is applied to the cleaned surfaces.

If some significant amount of time (days, or longer) has elapsed between old glue removal and application of new it's a good idea to do a pre-app wipe down with 'denatured' (mostly ethanol) or high-concentration isopropyl alcohol ('rubbing' alcohol will work but the water in it needs more time to evaporate than the alcohol component) on a clean cotton or microfiber (as long as you don't mind using such products generally) cloth. This serves to remove any dust or other airborne contaminants that may have settled out that might affect getting a solid bond between fresh glue or tape and the rim. One can of course use fresh glue-removal solvent if that's all you have but the alcohols I mentioned are usually less costly, less flammable and don't smell as bad... but they won't do much to remove old glue residue either.

Aardwolf 08-15-23 11:24 AM

Hiya Folks,
I've been using Vittoria Rubino Pro G+ 28mm for the last 2k miles and like them a lot (for £35).
I'm working on a new project and had these earmarked but it turns out they've been "discontinued 14th August 2023":
https://www.merlincycles.com/vittori...0c-140868.html

A couple of shops seem to have one left for £45, or there's some for around £60.
Checked the Vittoria site and that shows
Rally: 21/23/25
Rubino: 23/25/28
Corsa: 23/25/28/30
So if Rubino is really discontinued I'm out of luck for 28mm.

Can anybody suggest a 28mm tubular they like in the £35-£45ish range that's actually 28mm ?

smontanaro 08-15-23 11:55 AM

Aardwolf I bought some Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 tubulars in 28mm and 30mm widths when they were (are?) on sale recently. They were $95/pair, so well under your price threshold. The 28s went on my Serotta and seem to run true to size. You might get lucky and find another pair or two floating around at that price.

Het Volk 08-15-23 12:32 PM

Unglued spare tubular?
 
I am really new to tubular tires, and have my first bike running sew-ups. I am curious…I’m an emergency only situation, is it safe to carry an unglued spare tubular tire in the event I flat, with the knowledge to take it slow and steady back home?

I presume that at high enough pressure, the tire will stay on the rim until I get back home, but wanted advise from those who have more experience with sew-ups.

I have some Gatorskin tubulars that I intend to ultimately put on a training wheel set in going to build up, but for now needed a spare in a pinch.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a730f5f9.jpeg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7283a5dab.jpeg

DiabloScott 08-15-23 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by Het Volk (Post 22985378)
I am really new to tubular tires, and have my first bike running sew-ups. I am curious…I’m an emergency only situation, is it safe to carry an unglued spare tubular tire in the event I flat, with the knowledge to take it slow and steady back home?

Welkom Het Volk!
1. For safest results, your spare should have an old coat of glue on the base tape - either a used tire or one that's been prepped. You'll get some extra adhesion from this than from bare fabric. So when you take off the flat tire you'll have a rim that still has some sticky glue on it, and a spare tire that's got some still sticky glue on it, and it'll be even better when they heat up together during your ride home.

2. Press the mounted spare tire up as high as you dare - the tire mostly stays on because of pressure, and the glue keeps it from creeping.

3. Take corners slowly, and minimize your braking with the spare tire wheel. Stop frequently to check on it.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9169a47aef.jpg

Classtime 08-15-23 01:10 PM

Get that Sprinter Gatorskin stretching as soon as you can. They are a bear to mount -- not easy peasy like your Corsas. But once you get it on your rim It will stay put to get you home. (Cool Bike.)

Aardwolf 08-15-23 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22985329)
Aardwolf I bought some Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 tubulars in 28mm and 30mm widths when they were (are?) on sale recently. They were $95/pair, so well under your price threshold. The 28s went on my Serotta and seem to run true to size. You might get lucky and find another pair or two floating around at that price.

Cheers, had a look and the best I'm seeing in the UK is around £50 each https://www.wiggle.com/p/vittoria-co...=700c+%7C+28mm
But that's almost cheap enough, I'll put them on the list :)

Rats, turns out that's not the tubular.
Lowest price I've seen is £70 on Amazon.

panzerwagon 08-15-23 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by Aardwolf (Post 22985448)
Cheers, had a look and the best I'm seeing in the UK is around £50 each https://www.wiggle.com/p/vittoria-co...=700c+%7C+28mm
But that's almost cheap enough, I'll put them on the list :)

Rats, turns out that's not the tubular.
Lowest price I've seen is £70 on Amazon.

https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ular-road-tire
700x30 tubular version for $48 each. Not sure what postage rates to UK looks like.

Aardwolf 08-15-23 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by panzerwagon (Post 22985665)
https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ular-road-tire
700x30 tubular version for $48 each. Not sure what postage rates to UK looks like.

Cheers,
they also list 2x 700 x 28 for $89 https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ack?sku=743028
Very good prices.

International orders are a bit tricky though https://www.excelsports.com/page/int...ping-statement
and I've got no idea what the shipping is.

I might have found some Rubinos for £51 https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...re/137108639/p
and Corsa Control for £61 https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...re/137108631/p

squirtdad 08-15-23 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by panzerwagon (Post 22985665)
https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ular-road-tire
700x30 tubular version for $48 each. Not sure what postage rates to UK looks like.

That is a nice tire i had those for while before I moved them along as part of a wheelset.....in retrospect maybe not one of my better moves...

gkamieneski 08-15-23 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by Het Volk (Post 22985378)
I am really new to tubular tires, and have my first bike running sew-ups. I am curious…I’m an emergency only situation, is it safe to carry an unglued spare tubular tire in the event I flat, with the knowledge to take it slow and steady back home?

I presume that at high enough pressure, the tire will stay on the rim until I get back home, but wanted advise from those who have more experience with sew-ups.

I have some Gatorskin tubulars that I intend to ultimately put on a training wheel set in going to build up, but for now needed a spare in a pinch.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a730f5f9.jpeg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7283a5dab.jpeg

Are you really running 40mm of spacers under your stem on that carbon steerer?

Aardwolf 08-16-23 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by Aardwolf (Post 22985683)
Cheers,
they also list 2x 700 x 28 for $89 https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ack?sku=743028
Very good prices.

International orders are a bit tricky though https://www.excelsports.com/page/int...ping-statement
and I've got no idea what the shipping is.

Quoting myself because somebody else might need to know this:

"That’s is correct, unfortunately we are unable to ship to the UK." - reply from Excel Sports.

Their country selector for account/delivery address didn't include UK so I emailed them and asked.
Seems to include almost everywhere else though.

smontanaro 08-16-23 10:04 AM

What would be involved in a relay? I'd be happy to shuttle it along. If you're not in a huge hurry, a local bike friend here in Chicago makes the trek back to Surrey from time to time. He's willing to carry it in his luggage. Actually, his wife is leaving Saturday for Surrey and will be there all next week. PM me your email address and I'll put you in touch with Andrew.

Aardwolf 08-16-23 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22986284)
What would be involved in a relay? I'd be happy to shuttle it along. If you're not in a huge hurry, a local bike friend here in Chicago makes the trek back to Surrey from time to time. He's willing to carry it in his luggage. Actually, his wife is leaving Saturday for Surrey and will be there all next week. PM me your email address and I'll put you in touch with Andrew.

Thanks for the offer but I'll find a more direct supplier.
I need a more long term solution and I think I prefer the Rubino for the butyl tubes (they stay inflated for weeks), although I haven't tried latex yet.

Update Just ordered Rubino x2 from BikeInn for £50.99 each + £7.99 postage, now I just wait to see if they actually have them in stock ....

Update2 2023/08/26 Tyres arrived and they're correct ones.


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