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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

Morelock 07-12-18 05:34 AM

1:09 for the 35-39 Kilo. Pretty stout

Heath Dotson (Ex-Cyclist on many forums, also runs the aerocamps at A2 Wind Tunnel) crushed the 45-49 IP (3:35) almost 7 seconds to second! Not bad for a triathlete

topflightpro 07-12-18 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by Morelock (Post 20442928)
1:09 for the 35-39 Kilo. Pretty stout

Heath Dotson (Ex-Cyclist on many forums, also runs the aerocamps at A2 Wind Tunnel) crushed the 45-49 IP (3:35) almost 7 seconds to second! Not bad for a triathlete

Morelock, are you racing up here or just looking at the results?

Morelock 07-12-18 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 20442977)
Morelock, are you racing up here or just looking at the results?

Just looking at results this year... I (wrongly) picked my State TT to do instead. :D

taras0000 07-12-18 03:37 PM

Max Levy doing the team pursuit at German nationals, qualified 2nd with his team and is riding for gold later today.

carleton 07-12-18 04:34 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 20444153)
Max Levy doing the team pursuit at German nationals, qualified 2nd with his team and is riding for gold later today.

Nice!

Isn't there a strategy where a TP team will use one person to get them up to speed and/or pull more laps than normal then "burn out" and drop off and let the other 3 finish for time? Is there a name for that and is that what they seem to be doing?

carleton 07-12-18 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 20444153)
Max Levy doing the team pursuit at German nationals, qualified 2nd with his team and is riding for gold later today.

Levy retweeted this article: https://www.lr-online.de/sport/news/...d_aid-23910187

Has pics and even video of the ride.

taras0000 07-12-18 05:27 PM

I don't think that there is a name for that strategy, but he ended up riding 5.5 of the first 10 laps, one guy skipped his turn, and that leaves only two laps each for the remaining six laps.

Poppit 07-13-18 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20444276)
Nice!

Isn't there a strategy where a TP team will use one person to get them up to speed and/or pull more laps than normal then "burn out" and drop off and let the other 3 finish for time? Is there a name for that and is that what they seem to be doing?

Mehdi Kordi method, developed by Team KGF

https://twitter.com/danbiggles22/sta...448528386?s=21

carleton 07-13-18 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by Poppit (Post 20444947)


Mehdi Kordi method, developed by Team KGF

https://twitter.com/danbiggles22/sta...448528386?s=21

Maybe Kordi developed it years ago and/or he added more science and structure to it? I've seen it done long before Team KGF was even formed. I think the first time I saw it was at Masters Nationals in 2009 when I started the sport.

I noticed Hammer would sometimes take more pulls than the other ladies years ago.

Poppit 07-13-18 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20445545)
Maybe Kordi developed it years ago and/or he added more science and structure to it? I've seen it done long before Team KGF was even formed. I think the first time I saw it was at Masters Nationals in 2009 when I started the sport.

I noticed Hammer would sometimes take more pulls than the other ladies years ago.

Don't think I go back in the sport as long as you, lol. Saying that. it's the first time I've seen anything like that at a top level event, with the guy changing and slotting in at 3.

taras0000 07-13-18 03:17 PM

This strategy has been around for ages. I stopped racing competitively over 12 years ago and this was something that was going on before I even started racing. We used this technique when I was a junior 20 years ago, and it was easily standard practice back then, and even before that.

Strategy will be highly individual to each team. The great thing about the TP is that there are so many variables to manipulate. Even as a sprinter, I really enjoyed doing the TP. I believe it is the ONLY endurance event that a sprinter can excell in. It is short enough, yet submaximal, with chance for recovery. It would be really neat to see a full team of elite level sprinters put together a full TP.

Baby Puke 07-13-18 04:24 PM

This first I saw this was when the GB team subbed in Kian Emadi (who at the time was a kilo/TS rider) for the first few laps of TP and then he pulled out. 2010ish maybe?

brawlo 07-13-18 04:48 PM

The Australian masters men TP record is a team of sprinters set this year. One guy is more of an all rounder but the rest are genuine (record holding) sprinters

Poppit 07-14-18 05:06 AM

I wasn’t really referring to sprinters in TPs, more so the dropping into third place on the change. It’s worth saying also that Jonny isn’t really a sprinter, he’s more of a kilo/pursuiter

Poppit 07-16-18 08:20 AM

Lol, just seen a notification that British Cycling are bringing in qualification times for the IP and TT in the 2019 Nat Champs. 4'25" for the mens IP, 63s for the Kilo, 3'45" for the women's IP and 36.5s for the TT. A friend has looked at this years results and says that there would be only 8 men in the IP and Kilo, 11 in the women's IP and 6 in the TT. Takes out approx' 50-75% of this years field. Madness! Are there time qualifications in anyone else's Nat Champs?

Richard Kennedy 07-16-18 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by Poppit (Post 20450355)
Lol, just seen a notification that British Cycling are bringing in qualification times for the IP and TT in the 2019 Nat Champs. 4'25" for the mens IP, 63s for the Kilo, 3'45" for the women's IP and 36.5s for the TT. A friend has looked at this years results and says that there would be only 8 men in the IP and Kilo, 11 in the women's IP and 6 in the TT. Takes out approx' 50-75% of this years field. Madness! Are their time qualifications in anyone else's Nat Champs?

Just to add some clarity, the championships will be open to ALL riders. What is being introduced is a pre-qualifying session for all riders who do not meet the standards you've mentioned.
The Championships programme is compact as it is designed to fit into just 3 days so as to be attractive to top riders and paying spectators alike. With the greatest of respect to the riders (of which I have been one on many occasion), the paying spectators are not encouraged by a 2 hour pursuit qualifying session watching 40 riders doing pursuit after pursuit - many of whom won't be breaking the 5 minute barrier. The aim is not to turn these riders away - they are the lifeblood of the sport and deserve their opportunity to compete at the National Championship just as much as the stars of the National Squad. So what will happen is that there will be a qualifying day on the Thursday (Main Championships Fri-Sun). Riders who have met the very demanding pre-qualifying standards will go straight into the main event, the other competitors will have a chance to race on the same track, with the same facilities and officials to perform to their best and record a time. Anyone meeting a set standard in this pre-qualifying session will also advance into the main championship.
In case you're thinking this is a radical departure - it's not - those with a long memory of British Championships will recall that this is exactly what used to happen back in the days of racing at Leicester track in the early 1980s (which is as far back as my recall goes), pretty sure it goes back further still. Back in the 1980s, the qualifying standard for the kilo (outdoors, pre tribars and disc wheels) was 1 minute 12 seconds - how times move on!

Poppit 07-16-18 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by Richard Kennedy (Post 20451094)
Just to add some clarity, the championships will be open to ALL riders. What is being introduced is a pre-qualifying session for all riders who do not meet the standards you've mentioned.
The Championships programme is compact as it is designed to fit into just 3 days so as to be attractive to top riders and paying spectators alike. With the greatest of respect to the riders (of which I have been one on many occasion), the paying spectators are not encouraged by a 2 hour pursuit qualifying session watching 40 riders doing pursuit after pursuit - many of whom won't be breaking the 5 minute barrier. The aim is not to turn these riders away - they are the lifeblood of the sport and deserve their opportunity to compete at the National Championship just as much as the stars of the National Squad. So what will happen is that there will be a qualifying day on the Thursday (Main Championships Fri-Sun). Riders who have met the very demanding pre-qualifying standards will go straight into the main event, the other competitors will have a chance to race on the same track, with the same facilities and officials to perform to their best and record a time. Anyone meeting a set standard in this pre-qualifying session will also advance into the main championship.
In case you're thinking this is a radical departure - it's not - those with a long memory of British Championships will recall that this is exactly what used to happen back in the days of racing at Leicester track in the early 1980s (which is as far back as my recall goes), pretty sure it goes back further still. Back in the 1980s, the qualifying standard for the kilo (outdoors, pre tribars and disc wheels) was 1 minute 12 seconds - how times move on!

Fair enough but it isnít expressed like that in the email thatís gone out. I also canít see many people paying the full amount to enter knowing that all they will get is a run in a qualifying event as they know they wonít meet the standard. I think as well that the qualifying times are set too fast, someone has pointed out that the menís IP time is the same as the Scottish qualification time for the last commonwealth games, canít see many club riders meeting that. Isnít it supposed to be the Ďclub championshipsí?

Voodoo76 07-16-18 02:43 PM

Don't know if anyone has been following Lawson Craddock's story at the Tour this year. Battling through an injury on Stage 1 to line up & finish so far though Stage 9. I've had that same injury, I couldn't put my left hand on a handlebar for a month w/o pain.

It's been getting a lot of TV time on the NBC coverage and the GoFundMe for Alkek Velodrome that he started & contributes too every day he finishes is now up to $95K.

https://www.gofundme.com/lc039s-fight-for-paris

Baby Puke 07-16-18 04:11 PM

Just a general question about national championships regardless of nation: What ever happened to qualifying for nationals via performance at regional championships? In the US this is how it worked on the road side for elites when I was a kid (is it different now?), and it seemed effective then. You couldn't just load up the car regardless of your level and do nationals. You had to qualify to be there. This is also how it works on for track elites in Japan, but I'm wondering why it's not just done at all levels, including masters. It would certainly make the racing a lot more exciting and cut down on the crazy traffic (and incidents) when trying to get warm-up time on the track. Thoughts?

carleton 07-16-18 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20451567)
In the US, I think the problem would be that hosting these regional qualifying races just wouldn't be profitable. USA Cycling routinely loses money hosting national championship events.

ESPECIALLY on the track, the US fields just aren't big enough to warrant having regional qualifying events. It's three weeks away from US Elite Track nationals, and the largest field is the men's omnium, with 31 participants. The women's sprint has *3* people registered.

+1

The last time USAC had qualifications before Nationals was 2010 where the rules were basically:
- Any rider who places in the top 25% of a Sprint event qualified for all Sprint events at Nationals.
- Any rider who places in the top 25% of an Endurance event qualified for all Endurance events at Nationals.
- People in competitive regions (TTown for example) could travel to less competitive regions and qualify).

DLV hosted a 2-day event: Results : Dick Lane Velodrome - Fixed Gear Bicycle Racing (East Point) Atlanta, GA

I think it was a cool idea. But, you do have to have USAC certified officials to staff the event. Those people have to attend a one-day class and pass a test.

So, the concept is cool but logistics can probably be a pain. Setting a time standard is interesting.

One question that will come up: Will one have to meet the time standard at a British/USA Cycling officiated event? Or will local track times count?

brawlo 07-16-18 06:50 PM

It's a good standard for elites. At the British elite level, I think it would be safe to say that most of those eligible are already known. For those teetering on the edge of qualification, there is of course the qualifying day to make it official. Over here in Oz, you have to qualify by way of proving yourself at state champs. Only a certain number can then go on to nats

Baby Puke 07-16-18 07:59 PM

A time standard would be cool, but need some kind of handicap for different tracks, no?

carleton 07-16-18 09:56 PM


Originally Posted by Poppit (Post 20450355)
Lol, just seen a notification that British Cycling are bringing in qualification times for the IP and TT in the 2019 Nat Champs. 4'25" for the mens IP, 63s for the Kilo, 3'45" for the women's IP and 36.5s for the TT. A friend has looked at this years results and says that there would be only 8 men in the IP and Kilo, 11 in the women's IP and 6 in the TT. Takes out approx' 50-75% of this years field. Madness! Are there time qualifications in anyone else's Nat Champs?

Dan Bigham isn't on board with the seemingly high time standards. Some interesting chatter in the comments:

The twitter link isn't working. You can find the tweet by going here:
Twitter: /DanBiggles22/status/1018841127074652160"


To put them into perspective, those qualifying times would have won 3 of the 4 events at last year's US Elite Nationals:
- Kilo: Win
- 500M: 2nd
- Men's 4K: WIN
- Women's 3K: WIN


My gut says that these abnormally high time standards are a way to systematically leave all team spots to those who are given a "coach's discretionary pick". The US does this, too...and it also sucks.

topflightpro 07-17-18 05:47 AM


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20451567)
In the US, I think the problem would be that hosting these regional qualifying races just wouldn't be profitable. USA Cycling routinely loses money hosting national championship events.

ESPECIALLY on the track, the US fields just aren't big enough to warrant having regional qualifying events. It's three weeks away from US Elite Track nationals, and the largest field is the men's omnium, with 31 participants. The women's sprint has *3* people registered.

USAC loses money on Elite and Pro national championships. It makes money on the Masters - a lot of money, really. Juniors and Collegiate tend to be a wash.

In fact, USAC loses so much on the Elite and Pro championships, it has tossed around the idea of scrapping the Pro stuff.

Poppit 07-17-18 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20451611)
+1

The last time USAC had qualifications before Nationals was 2010 where the rules were basically:
- Any rider who places in the top 25% of a Sprint event qualified for all Sprint events at Nationals.
- Any rider who places in the top 25% of an Endurance event qualified for all Endurance events at Nationals.
- People in competitive regions (TTown for example) could travel to less competitive regions and qualify).

DLV hosted a 2-day event: Results : Dick Lane Velodrome - Fixed Gear Bicycle Racing (East Point) Atlanta, GA

I think it was a cool idea. But, you do have to have USAC certified officials to staff the event. Those people have to attend a one-day class and pass a test.

So, the concept is cool but logistics can probably be a pain. Setting a time standard is interesting.

One question that will come up: Will one have to meet the time standard at a British/USA Cycling officiated event? Or will local track times count?

Link to the info here, https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/ev...-Championships


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