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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

ddeand 09-17-18 11:52 PM

The ABCE ride in the Twin Cities really got me fired up on a couple levels. First, I figured out what my next build willl be (after I finish the Miyata Pro project). I’d like to do a drop-bar Carlton 3-speed. The other thing that got me going was the enthusiasm and camaraderie that I’ve seen in the people who dig these old bikes. The ABCE group is one nitty, but there is also a Cycle Museum of Minnesota that is also working on making a dent in the scene. https://www.cmm.bike/. I think we’re pretty fortunate to have a vast array of trails and paths here as well as some organizations that promote these great links to the past.

On a different note, DQRider mentioned a fellow named Julio in his post and showed a pic of Julio’s Sports. That bike was given to Julio by the wife of a deceased buddy, and he was riding it in memories of his friend. It was a nice gesture. Here’s his bike and mine.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8c5d13e44.jpeg


thumpism 09-18-18 06:25 AM

New ad by a regular dealer-type in the Chesapeake area has showed up in the local CL featuring 3-speeds. He's never shown bikes like this before and it looks like he might have some of our kind of iron. Worth a call to find out. Good luck!

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...700627527.html

Do You Need A Bike Today???? (Chesapeake Great Bridge)


https://images.craigslist.org/00E0E_...F6_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/01313_...85_600x450.jpg

bicycle type: other
frame size: other
wheel size: other/unknown Need or want a bike today?
We have tons of bikes for sale everyday available any time

Vintage steel road bikes, hybrids, commuters, cruisers, BMX, MTB, Old School
Quality brand adult bikes in all sizes, all working. $75 and up
Tandems
Muscle Bikes
Cruisers
Tank Bikes
Worksmans
Folding Bikes
hybrids

BigChief 09-18-18 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20572043)
Wow! What a cool event! Those bikes are flawless and make me feel like I really need to polish up my sports. Haha
Over here in the Pacific Northwest it's getting rainy again. Frankly I missed it. We had another long dry spell this year and all this rain makes it feel like home again. I'm finding that fall feels more like what summer used to be.
The only sad thing about the rain is that I cant enjoy riding around my sports given it's old steel rims.
Between the grey rainy days we still get some cool sunny ones and this was one of them.
I decided to take advantage of the dry weather and take my sports out for a ride. I got this great little handlebar bag for $15. I really like the way it looks on my commuter and hanging on the rack of the sport its not half bad eithier.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...596a6e4cc8.jpg

I just love this bike. I really missed riding with no hands. My daily commuter just doesnt feel the same. I still need to get the cranks reset with some new cotter pins but other than that everything is just so smooth. It wasnt a long ride, just down to the hardware store and grabbing some to-go food for me and my partner. I'm trying to keep it stabled untill I get the cotter pins redone, but I just couldnt resist taking it out for a short spin. The weather and the bike made it a really wonderful jaunt though.

You have the old Sports looking great. Are you waiting for Bikesmith cotters? It's worth it. Since this bike turned out so good, I know of an unnecessary but very nice accessory you may be interested in. In the early 70s , Raleigh started using aluminum ESGE kickstands as standard equipment for the Sports. Pletscher made these special for Raleigh. They differ from the usual ESGE stands in that the top plate has ears that extend down to engage the sides of the lower plate so both plates work together to prevent the stand from rotating in the frame. And it fits perfectly in any Raleigh light roadster frame. It's a great design. They're light, very stable in use and they don't flop around like the round steel stands. An eBay seller stumbled across a goldmine of new old stock Raleigh ESGEs and is selling them for 33.75 free shipping. I was thrilled to find these. Bought one recently for the Rudge I just finished.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-ESGE-PL...wAAOxy4jxSJdu~

dweenk 09-18-18 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20572265)
New ad by a regular dealer-type in the Chesapeake area has showed up in the local CL featuring 3-speeds. He's never shown bikes like this before and it looks like he might have some of our kind of iron. Worth a call to find out. Good luck!

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...700627527.html

Do You Need A Bike Today???? (Chesapeake Great Bridge)


https://images.craigslist.org/00E0E_...F6_600x450.jpg

bicycle type: other
frame size: other
wheel size: other/unknown Need or want a bike today?
We have tons of bikes for sale everyday available any time

Vintage steel road bikes, hybrids, commuters, cruisers, BMX, MTB, Old School
Quality brand adult bikes in all sizes, all working. $75 and up
Tandems
Muscle Bikes
Cruisers
Tank Bikes
Worksmans
Folding Bikes
hybrids

I wish I were closer. That Rudge in the middle is speaking to me.

thumpism 09-18-18 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20572758)
I wish I were closer. That Rudge in the middle is speaking to me.

Call the guy. We have business in Virginia Beach in a week or so.

adventurepdx 09-18-18 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20570898)
I wish we had a group of 3 speed enthusiasts in the Memphis area...From what I can tell it's mainly cyclists and mountain bikers here.

How about a Tweed Ride?

Many cities around the world have them, though I can't find any current info for Memphis. While a Tweed Ride isn't a Three Speed Ride, there is overlap, and there will most likely be a few people on old Raleigh Sports. So it's a good way to connect with those folks, and maybe you can start some rides? :)

BigChief 09-18-18 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20572763)
Call the guy. We have business in Virginia Beach in a week or so.

Yeah, wouldn't hurt to call. I think I can see a hand chainring, but I'm not certain. Could be early 60s. Hard to find the older Rudges in 23" these days.

thumpism 09-18-18 02:22 PM

Well, I have some encouraging news to report. I stopped by the antique shop I've posted about before in order to pass a rainy day and have news on two bikes. This ladies' Sports is now gone! Don't know who'd be interested in such a rusty machine but I hope it found a good home. Yay!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5797abe6b2.jpg

The nifty little blue Hercules is still there but the price is coming down. It was $65 the first time I asked, then $50 the second time and yesterday it was $30. I don't need it and I don't particularly want it, and if it had the chainguard I probably would have bought it for thirty, but I did not want to offer twenty or less because she might have taken it and then I'd have the bike. Somebody? I'll hold it until you can pick it up. By the way, that is a Hawthorne branded (probably actually a Stewart-Warner Cadet) speedometer on it.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f08967d673.jpg

Buellster 09-18-18 02:30 PM

A very sad looking pair of ridges has actually popped up in my area.
They look like they may be beyond help but it is interesting to see a pair here. First time I've seen any in pdx since I got into three speeds.

I dont know why the handlebars are turned around?
weird choice.
heres the link
Rudgeshttps://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c9d5b2f71.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ba3fd3818.jpg

desconhecido 09-18-18 04:02 PM

Sad doesn't begin to describe those two. About those bars: reminds me of the old saying that somebody doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

Buellster 09-18-18 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20573451)
Sad doesn't begin to describe those two. About those bars: reminds me of the old saying that somebody doesn't know whether he's coming or going.

Right?
I was so excited when I saw rudge and then so sad when I saw the pics haha
seriously, Its like when somebody takes road bars and points them to the sky. Just odd.

BigChief 09-18-18 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20573455)
Right?
I was so excited when I saw rudge and then so sad when I saw the pics haha
seriously, Its like when somebody takes road bars and points them to the sky. Just odd.

I'm only seeing the red one. It's an early 50s model. Since it's worth next to nothing, it would be worth picking up for the frameset except there looks to be some sort of lug welded to the back of the head tube. I have seen lugs like that to support large front racks like the English mail bikes, but it does ruin the frame. It looks like the Hand of Ulster crank is rusted beyond cleaning up, but it's hard to say only seeing this picture. The window shifter may be salvageable.

cudak888 09-18-18 04:58 PM

1950's Rudge with a locking fork? Even in that shape, it's tempting at a cheap enough price. Looks like a Dynothree or Dynofour on it too.

-Kurt

desconhecido 09-18-18 05:33 PM

Looks like the other one has a dynohub as well. That's some serious stuff, right there. I'm not even sure if it rises to the level of neglect. Perhaps there should be a Society to Prevent Cruelty to 3-Speed Bikes -- SPC3. Sort of like "Save the Skeets."

clubman 09-18-18 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20573555)
1950's Rudge with a locking fork? Even in that shape, it's tempting at a cheap enough price. Looks like a Dynothree or Dynofour on it too.

-Kurt

Wondering how you spotted that? The long R-to-L shot from the ad? Those top-o-downtube locks were almost always Humber.

:thumb:

cudak888 09-18-18 06:02 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20573622)
Looks like the other one has a dynohub as well. That's some serious stuff, right there. I'm not even sure if it rises to the level of neglect. Perhaps there should be a Society to Prevent Cruelty to 3-Speed Bikes -- SPC3. Sort of like "Save the Skeets."

Two pics. One bike. Same bar grips.


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20573660)
Wondering how you spotted that? The long R-to-L shot from the ad? Those top-o-downtube locks were almost always Humber.

:thumb:

I spotted the lock cylinder on the lower headtube lug in pic #1 . Looks like a big wart. Pic #2 shows the central-mounted receiver below the crown. Almost missed it, but something looked different.

I'll admit, it's a shambles, but if you can snag it for $25, I'd oxalic dump the whole thing in a kiddie pool, throw some Raleigh fenders on it (better yet if they're pre-Tube Industries) and a chaincase if I were so lucky, and have the rattiest pre-TI 3-speed in the C&V Clunker Challenge.

I'd probably be a sucker for this one if I was standing right next to it, but I'm not, thank god. That, and it isn't a 23" frame.

-Kurt

BigChief 09-18-18 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20573668)
Two pics. One bike. Same bar grips.



I spotted the lock cylinder on the lower headtube lug in pic #1 . Looks like a big wart. Pic #2 shows the central-mounted receiver below the crown. Almost missed it, but something looked different.

I'll admit, it's a shambles, but if you can snag it for $25, I'd oxalic dump the whole thing in a kiddie pool, throw some Raleigh fenders on it (better yet if they're pre-Tube Industries) and a chaincase if I were so lucky, and have the rattiest pre-TI 3-speed in the C&V Clunker Challenge.

I'd probably be a sucker for this one if I was standing right next to it, but I'm not, thank god. That, and it isn't a 23" frame.

-Kurt

A lock. Ah... I didn't recognize it as a lock. Come to think of it, I have seen that style of lock in catalog scans. Well then, the frameset isn't ruined.Framesets in this sorry state with a finish that's beyond preservation do offer the possibility of a platform for a like new restoration. So yes, even a 21" of this vintage would be worthwhile to bring home for 25 bucks.

Buellster 09-18-18 06:18 PM

I was thinking that was the same bike in both!
maybe the unpictured one is in decent shape... probably not though haha
I'd consider it for 25, but for 100 I'm not going anywhere near it!

cudak888 09-18-18 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20573683)
A lock. Ah... I didn't recognize it as a lock. Come to think of it, I have seen that style of lock in catalog scans. Well then, the frameset isn't ruined.Framesets in this sorry state and beyond preservation do offer the possibility of a platform for a like new restoration. So yes, even a 21" of this vintage would be worthwhile to bring home for 25 bucks.

It's probably a solid frame under all the rust, if someone wished to go through the effort of blasting it and repainting it. Should have the full chaincase braze-on by default too.

These are a bit heavier than the later TI-era Raleighs and have really thick chainstays, but they blow the '60s and '70s frames out of the water. Stiff, strong, and built like a tank. The later frames are mere imitations of these, if not on the level of a Chinese copy. Once you've owned one from this era, it's hard to go back to the run-of-the-mill Rampar-badged stuff.

-Kurt

Buellster 09-18-18 06:54 PM

I messaged the to ask for pics of bike #2 ...

heres hoping it's in better shape.
if he wants 100 for both, 25 for one may not be too insane.
its gotta be a 23" though.

BigChief 09-18-18 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20573693)
It's probably a solid frame under all the rust, if someone wished to go through the effort of blasting it and repainting it. Should have the full chaincase braze-on by default too.

These are a bit heavier than the later TI-era Raleighs and have really thick chainstays, but they blow the '60s and '70s frames out of the water. Stiff, strong, and built like a tank. The later frames are mere imitations of these, if not on the level of a Chinese copy. Once you've owned one from this era, it's hard to go back to the run-of-the-mill Rampar-badged stuff.

-Kurt

I just finished this 51 Rudge. I noticed the frame seemed heavier than the 23" TI Raleigh I did just before.I was wondering if it had to do with the steel used for the tubes. Raleigh didn't start touting their High Tensile steel until later in the 50s. I was wondering if perhaps the frame is heavier because it's made from a more mild steel. The hockey stick chainguard is original .Heavier or not, I'm in love with this one.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c90e7a534.jpg

cudak888 09-18-18 07:09 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20573748)
I just finished this 51 Rudge. I noticed the frame seemed heavier than the 23" TI Raleigh I did just before.I was wondering if it had to do with the steel used for the tubes. Raleigh didn't start touting their High Tensile steel until later in the 50s. I was wondering if perhaps the frame is heavier because it's made from a more mild steel. The hockey stick chainguard is original .Heavier or not, I'm in love with this one.

Thicker tubing, sturdier lugs, those huge seatstays, and that thick enamel paint all add up quite a bit.

Whether it's more mild or not, these things are a stiff as a butcher block. I'd have reservations about a fast descent on a TI-industries frame, but wouldn't think twice of it on of these. Hockey stick probably indicates that the bike was intended for the US market.

You won't regret hanging onto that one. Virtually identical to my '51 Sports sans the full chaincase. If you can manage to snag an original Rudge chaincase in comparable condition to match, I'd recommend it, even if it'd be toying with originality. Makes them really distinct, and it's rather reassuring to have the chain out of the elements and one's trouser leg.

-Kurt

desconhecido 09-18-18 07:19 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20573668)
Two pics. One bike. Same bar grips.

[...]
-Kurt

I don't know if we're looking at the same pics or not.

What I see:
Pic 1 shows a bike with the bars mounted backwards, a small flange front hub and a Dyno hub rear. Pic 2 shows a bike with the bars mounted the other way, a IGH in the rear with no dyno, and a detached front wheel with a G6. Two bikes, both red, 4 distinct hubs.Pic 3 says Dremel , pics 4, 5, 6, 7 --same bike as in 1,

The only pic of bike 2 is Pic 2. edit: bike in pic2 shows none of the green paint and shows no grips. I know thes pics are odd as the later pics of bike 1 show it in the same physical location as the bike in pic 2, but I don't think it's the same bike.

edit again: bike in pic 2 has a chain on it and a replacement left pedal.

cudak888 09-18-18 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20573774)
I don't know if we're looking at the same pics or not.

What I see:
Pic 1 shows a bike with the bars mounted backwards, a small flange front hub and a Dyno hub rear. Pic 2 shows a bike with the bars mounted the other way, a IGH in the rear with no dyno, and a detached front wheel with a G6. Two bikes, both red, 4 distinct hubs.Pic 3 says Dremel , pics 4, 5, 6, 7 --same bike as in 1,

The only pic of bike 2 is Pic 2.

Crap - now I see the link to the ad. Only saw the two pics in the thread until now.

The one with the Dynothree/Dynofour is the one I've been mentioning. Seller will never get his $100, but perhaps that's just helping save someone from a much larger job than the $40 those two are barely worth. Admittedly, even though the Dynohubs and rims are interesting and probably worth more than $40 (if I know the chrome on these '50s Westwoods, possibly quite decent and salvageable under all that crud), the fact that you have to drag the frames along isn't as much a perk as a potential pain in the butt. Even stripping them for parts and offering the remaining bits in Pay it Forward would be an unnecessary shipping effort.

-Kurt

desconhecido 09-18-18 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20573787)
Crap - now I see the link to the ad. Only saw the two pics in the thread until now.

The one with the Dynothree/Dynofour is the one I've been mentioning. Seller will never get his $100, but perhaps that's just helping save someone from a much larger job than the $40 those two are barely worth. Admittedly, even though the Dynohubs and rims are interesting and probably worth more than $40 (if I know the chrome on these '50s Westwoods, possibly quite decent and salvageable under all that crud), the fact that you have to drag the frames along isn't as much a perk as a potential pain in the butt. Even stripping them for parts and offering the remaining bits in Pay it Forward would be an unnecessary shipping effort.

-Kurt

That one with the green and red paint might be worth some coin if it can be verified to be a Jackson Pollock.


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