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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 07-16-18 04:47 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20450220)
Yes, it is. And it would be even better if they had a bike rack outside. But the fact that the lady behind the counter let me park my bike inside scores big points in my book. I'm thinking we should organize a 3-speed ride starting from there...

.

I would be game for a ride with you twin city dwellers.

DQRider 07-16-18 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20451506)
I don't recall if Lilydale road is open, but if it is, we can take the MRT to Mendota and from there to Ft Snelling, go down the hill and take the bike path to Minnehaha. Mostly on bike paths so not stressful, the way three speeds are supposed to be. I'd want better ice cream than the DQ though, no offense :)

No worries there. My handle is already obsolete, after three short years. I'm a Baskin Robbins man now. That Cherries Jubilee is tadiefor. And I'm a fan of the new taprooms that are springing up everywhere too. Which means I'll have to ride more miles if I want to stay in (some kind of) shape.

Last time I rode there, Lilydale road was a mess, and you couldn't get through to Mendota. But that was last Fall, so maybe now? Although we are still in flood season, so I'm thinking the other way, towards Mississippi Pub and beyond, might be better. I'll have to do some recon and figure this out. You have me motivated now.

.

johnnyspaghetti 07-17-18 01:51 PM

Has to be some love here...https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/s...?query=3+speed



https://images.craigslist.org/01111_...fa_600x450.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 07-17-18 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20450336)
Well, here's why the AW hub had so much trouble falling into false neutrals. Everything is coated with sticky grease and the pawls can barely move even in this hot weather. Might be almost dried up heavy gear oil, not sure, but here's a lesson...Don't use heavy oil or grease anywhere near the pawls. Might not need to make new springs. I'll see how they work once everything is cleaned up.

Big Chief, the two AW hubs I have in use have been cleaned and lubed with a nice light oil but lately they have become reluctant to stay in first gear (slipping into 2nd usually, occasionally just slipping) even with the cable VERY tight. Could this be due to weak pawl springs needing replacement?

SirMike1983 07-17-18 07:59 PM

Here is the main issue on the 1930s Phillips at the moment - a slightly separated non-drive rear dropout. The way these are made, a solid metal dropout is "sandwiched" through brazing into a slit in the rear fork. On the non-drive side, one of the sides of the "sandwich" has opened up a bit. The dropout itself is not loose at all.

What are the best options for repair here?

I'm not a frame builder. My guess is to clean up and braze the opened side back into place. Would this be a simple repair? I suppose the other option is some kind of modern weld to "spot weld" that side of the sandwich back into place, but brazing probably is the more correct way. Is this right?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03b0a36505.jpg

BigChief 07-17-18 08:24 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20454040)
Big Chief, the two AW hubs I have in use have been cleaned and lubed with a nice light oil but lately they have become reluctant to stay in first gear (slipping into 2nd usually, occasionally just slipping) even with the cable VERY tight. Could this be due to weak pawl springs needing replacement?

Both? That is very odd. You would have noticed the pawls acting sticky or sluggish when you had it apart. If they moved smartly I suspect the springs are fine. I don't like the sound of the cable being very tight in low gear. It shouldn't be. I suspect cable adjustment. So, just for the sake of it and because I like shop talk, I'll go through my setup procedure. First, make sure the indicator chain isn't bent or has any sticky links. Personally, I like to use new ones. Then, screw it all the way in then, back it off a half turn. You want both edges of the chain to ride evenly over the axle nut radius. By leaving it loose, it will self level. Then I check to see that the hub is truly in high gear by wiggling the cog and indicator chain to make sure it's bottomed out. I put the shifter in high position. Then I loosen the fulcrum clip and move it forward a bit to make sure I have plenty of slack in the cable. Then I thread the barrel adjuster about 1/4 the way on the indicator. Then, I'll move the fulcrum clip back until there's just a bit of slack left and tighten it. Now I know I'm close. The trick is to have the cable slack enough to engage high, tight enough to engage low but avoid the neutral spot in between 2nd and high. If the hub won't shift into low, I'll tighten the barrel adjuster a half turn until it does. If I still have any slack in the cable, I know high gear is OK so all I have to worry about is that it doesn't slip into neutral from 2nd. I road test this. Pedaling lightly I'll see if it slips or if I hear it start to slip. Then, I'll tighten the barrel adjuster a half turn at a time until I'm confident I'm out of the neutral area while the shifter is in 2nd. I know there's different methods. This is just the way I'm happy with doing it.

johnnyspaghetti 07-17-18 11:58 PM

Can I say that if the cable has kinks It will fu. The stretch goes to kinks instead of shift.

gster 07-18-18 06:12 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20454334)
Both? That is very odd. You would have noticed the pawls acting sticky or sluggish when you had it apart. If they moved smartly I suspect the springs are fine. I don't like the sound of the cable being very tight in low gear. It shouldn't be. I suspect cable adjustment. So, just for the sake of it and because I like shop talk, I'll go through my setup procedure. First, make sure the indicator chain isn't bent or has any sticky links. Personally, I like to use new ones. Then, screw it all the way in then, back it off a half turn. You want both edges of the chain to ride evenly over the axle nut radius. By leaving it loose, it will self level. Then I check to see that the hub is truly in high gear by wiggling the cog and indicator chain to make sure it's bottomed out. I put the shifter in high position. Then I loosen the fulcrum clip and move it forward a bit to make sure I have plenty of slack in the cable. Then I thread the barrel adjuster about 1/4 the way on the indicator. Then, I'll move the fulcrum clip back until there's just a bit of slack left and tighten it. Now I know I'm close. The trick is to have the cable slack enough to engage high, tight enough to engage low but avoid the neutral spot in between 2nd and high. If the hub won't shift into low, I'll tighten the barrel adjuster a half turn until it does. If I still have any slack in the cable, I know high gear is OK so all I have to worry about is that it doesn't slip into neutral from 2nd. I road test this. Pedaling lightly I'll see if it slips or if I hear it start to slip. Then, I'll tighten the barrel adjuster a half turn at a time until I'm confident I'm out of the neutral area while the shifter is in 2nd. I know there's different methods. This is just the way I'm happy with doing it.

I had a similar problem with the Robin Hood when I first put it together.
The culprit was the indicator chain. I swapped it out for a shorter version and all was well.

gster 07-18-18 06:16 AM

Blast From The Past
A 1938 Hercules Falcon that I put together a few years back and sold to a friend at work.
As far as I know he's still riding it.
It was too small for me.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6517bdb28a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9666a62aa2.jpg

BigChief 07-18-18 08:11 AM

Well, the Rudge has all new bearings in the hub, headset and bottom bracket, a nice new KMC chain and a 20T cog on the new driver. Notice my Raleigh special tool number "piece of wood". I use that to hold chain tension while I center the wheel and snug up the axle nuts. That 70s dustcap didn't fit the old hub. It was too deep and didn't leave enough room for the circlip. I had to steal one from another 50s hub I have. Now, I feel motivated to liberate the original one from the threaded driver.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c38bfa1d5e.jpg

Lawrence_S 07-18-18 10:08 AM

New poster here with <10 post count. It's really hard to reply to posts since almost all on this thread contain a URL! Anyways, have recently added a 1980 ladies Raleigh Superbe and (coincidentally) a 1980 gent's Raleigh Tourist to the mix. This thread has been invaluable.

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier. :)

Larry

Lawrence_S 07-18-18 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20437583)
There seem to be a bunch of newer converts on this thread! Here are some tips that will help the ridability of any British 3-speed....

Thanks, Salubrious! It's been about 48 years since I last owned a Brit 3-speed!

Salubrious 07-18-18 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20455303)
Thanks, Salubrious! It's been about 48 years since I last owned a Brit 3-speed!

If you are just getting into 3-speeds, you might want to look at another thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-3-speeds.html

Lawrence_S 07-18-18 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20455436)
If you are just getting into 3-speeds, you might want to look at another thread:

After 50 years of collecting various specialty tools I get to add to the pile! I like that. Thanks for the link.

desconhecido 07-18-18 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20455232)

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier. :)

Larry

Bike forums is usually a pretty nice place and this thread is about as nice as it gets. Been reading it since 2010 (with gaps) and I don't recall anybody getting snarky or judgmental. Even those of us with some 60 grit edges seem well behaved.

Lawrence_S 07-18-18 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20455490)
Bike forums is usually a pretty nice place and this thread is about as nice as it gets. Been reading it since 2010 (with gaps) and I don't recall anybody getting snarky or judgmental. Even those of us with some 60 grit edges seem well behaved.

I noticed the exact same thing desconheicido. Not always the case on internet fora. I've lurked for awhile and it seems a very civilized place.

Buellster 07-18-18 12:55 PM

Hey lovely 3 speed lovers!
I'm hoping to do a 3 speed conversion on my bike.
But, it is really tough to find 27" wheels with a three speed hub.
I did find this shwinn speedster with a three speed strumey archer hub and trigger shifter mechanism, but it looks to be a 26" tire. What are my chances that I can swap these rims, hubs and associated gear over to my bike?
I'm thinking null, but I wanted to ask the professionals and be shut down by some knowledgeable folks.
Thanks!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b4a96ec868.jpg

My bike
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10eb8c5ab5.jpg

Bike Id like to strip
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f2bce2b8e6.jpg

Hub looks decent, cable wire is clealry shot
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11b147ff3d.jpg

Trigger shifter

noglider 07-18-18 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20455494)
I noticed the exact same thing desconheicido. Not always the case on internet fora. I've lurked for awhile and it seems a very civilized place.

Now that you used (what I consider to be) the correct plural form of forum, you just made this an even more civilized place. :)

BigChief 07-18-18 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20455232)
New poster here with <10 post count. It's really hard to reply to posts since almost all on this thread contain a URL! Anyways, have recently added a 1980 ladies Raleigh Superbe and (coincidentally) a 1980 gent's Raleigh Tourist to the mix. This thread has been invaluable.

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier. :)

Larry

Welcome! This is a good bunch here. I've learned a lot from this thread. Keep the random comments coming so we can see your bikes. I'm especially fond of DL-1s. Here'e mine.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7964c69d8.jpg

desconhecido 07-18-18 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20455559)
Hey lovely 3 speed lovers!
I'm hoping to do a 3 speed conversion on my bike.
But, it is really tough to find 27" wheels with a three speed hub.
I did find this shwinn speedster with a three speed strumey archer hub and trigger shifter mechanism, but it looks to be a 26" tire. What are my chances that I can swap these rims, hubs and associated gear over to my bike?
I'm thinking null, but I wanted to ask the professionals and be shut down by some knowledgeable folks.
Thanks!

Ok. I don't think your Harding is a bad candidate for conversion to 3 speed, but trying to take the parts from the Schwinn is, in my opinion, not the way to go about it because of the difference in wheel sizes and the dearth of good tire options that will ensue. Your Harding has 27" tires with bead seat diameter of 630mm. The Schwinn has 26" tires which in Schwinn-land means wheels with bsd of 597 mm (there's an odd chance that it has 650a wheels, but I think that's remote -- somebody would have had to put Raleigh wheels or something on it). So, (622 - 597)/2 is 12.5 mm. That's a lot to expect of your current brakes and even if you can solve that problem, your tire selection would be essentially one -- Kenda 26 1-3/8 1/4 for Schwinn S6 rims (I think). If you want to do this, it essentially means that you have to build your own wheels, or have somebody do it. The preferred route would be to build into 700c rims, or 650b (584mm bsd).

The Speedster could be a viable donor for the hub and ancillary items. The hubs were, as I understand it, 36h and that makes it easier to build wheels than if you're starting with a 40h Raleigh donor. Personally, to me, that Speedster would be worth saving and I wouldn't part it out. Everybody needs at least one Ashtabula crank and a set of 1/2" pedals, don't they? There are plenty of old 3 speeds that are less worthy of salvation (probably there are about 10,000 crapped out Schwinn Breeze bicycles within a mile of you), but it's not like you would be painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa or anything, so, whatever.

Three speed bikes are a lot of fun and the options for messing around are almost, but not quite, infinite. You won't find many donor wheels in 27", 700c, or 650b, though, so if you're going to do this, you might want to consider gaining some wheel building skills. Wheel building can be almost therapeutic, it's cheaper than drugs, and chances are you won't get arrested.

Buellster 07-18-18 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20455833)
Ok. I don't think your Harding is a bad candidate for conversion to 3 speed, but trying to take the parts from the Schwinn is, in my opinion, not the way to go about it because of the difference in wheel sizes and the dearth of good tire options that will ensue. Your Harding has 27" tires with bead seat diameter of 630mm. The Schwinn has 26" tires which in Schwinn-land means wheels with bsd of 597 mm (there's an odd chance that it has 650a wheels, but I think that's remote -- somebody would have had to put Raleigh wheels or something on it). So, (622 - 597)/2 is 12.5 mm. That's a lot to expect of your current brakes and even if you can solve that problem, your tire selection would be essentially one -- Kenda 26 1-3/8 1/4 for Schwinn S6 rims (I think). If you want to do this, it essentially means that you have to build your own wheels, or have somebody do it. The preferred route would be to build into 700c rims, or 650b (584mm bsd).

The Speedster could be a viable donor for the hub and ancillary items. The hubs were, as I understand it, 36h and that makes it easier to build wheels than if you're starting with a 40h Raleigh donor. Personally, to me, that Speedster would be worth saving and I wouldn't part it out. Everybody needs at least one Ashtabula crank and a set of 1/2" pedals, don't they? There are plenty of old 3 speeds that are less worthy of salvation (probably there are about 10,000 crapped out Schwinn Breeze bicycles within a mile of you), but it's not like you would be painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa or anything, so, whatever.

Three speed bikes are a lot of fun and the options for messing around are almost, but not quite, infinite. You won't find many donor wheels in 27", 700c, or 650b, though, so if you're going to do this, you might want to consider gaining some wheel building skills. Wheel building can be almost therapeutic, it's cheaper than drugs, and chances are you won't get arrested.

Sort of what I thought too. I'm currently 2 bikes past my limit so I cant be adding anything to my brigade right now. The guy said it was definitely just a parts bike, but from the looks of it in the pics it just needs some love and it would be great!
I did find a 27" strumey archer rim and hub at my LBS. It doesnt have any of the cables or a shifter but they have new strumey archer triggers and cables to buy. All in it would be about $130.
it seems pricey but if 27" 3 speed rims are that rare maybe I should scoop it up...

Buellster 07-18-18 03:52 PM

Thanks so much for the help!

desconhecido 07-18-18 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20455905)
Sort of what I thought too. I'm currently 2 bikes past my limit so I cant be adding anything to my brigade right now. The guy said it was definitely just a parts bike, but from the looks of it in the pics it just needs some love and it would be great!
I did find a 27" strumey archer rim and hub at my LBS. It doesnt have any of the cables or a shifter but they have new strumey archer triggers and cables to buy. All in it would be about $130.
it seems pricey but if 27" 3 speed rims are that rare maybe I should scoop it up...

Well, there's something to be said for plug and play. Also something to be said for forming a relationship with a pro you can deal with when necessary. Just a suggestion: if you're going to put the 27" 3 speed wheel on the Harding, consider one of the SA bar end 3 speed shifters that will plug right into the end on your Harding's bars. Might be a little pricier than the trigger shifter, but they are, as the say, the bee's knees. For cable routing on the Harding, if you look through this thread you'll see a couple examples of how to do it, where to put the pulley and fulcrum stop, etc. You need to decide how you're going to do it before you buy the parts because clamps for the top tube are different size than for the down tube (25.4mm and 28.6 mm, I think). My preference is to run along the top tube and seat stay because I tend to snag my heel on the cable if I route along the downtube and chainstay.

Yeah, the pics of that Schwinn don't look all that bad. Fenders look ok, paint needs some cleaning and some rust remidiation is in order, but those electro forged Schwinns were tough bikes. God knows I tried to kill one when I was a kid and couldn't do it.

paulb_in_bkln 07-18-18 04:26 PM

As the pawl spring explanation didn't get any traction I followed your suggestions and reset and readjusted everything shift related on the Sports step thru. I don't know where the problem was but things are back to normal. Next, the new-old Rudge. I have an idea about that, now.

Buellster 07-18-18 05:47 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20455947)
Well, there's something to be said for plug and play. Also something to be said for forming a relationship with a pro you can deal with when necessary. Just a suggestion: if you're going to put the 27" 3 speed wheel on the Harding, consider one of the SA bar end 3 speed shifters that will plug right into the end on your Harding's bars. Might be a little pricier than the trigger shifter, but they are, as the say, the bee's knees. For cable routing on the Harding, if you look through this thread you'll see a couple examples of how to do it, where to put the pulley and fulcrum stop, etc. You need to decide how you're going to do it before you buy the parts because clamps for the top tube are different size than for the down tube (25.4mm and 28.6 mm, I think). My preference is to run along the top tube and seat stay because I tend to snag my heel on the cable if I route along the downtube and chainstay.

Yeah, the pics of that Schwinn don't look all that bad. Fenders look ok, paint needs some cleaning and some rust remidiation is in order, but those electro forged Schwinns were tough bikes. God knows I tried to kill one when I was a kid and couldn't do it.

Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.

desconhecido 07-18-18 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20456052)
Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.

Not everybody builds wheels and it's not something that anyone has to do. It's not really a big money saver either as you can find somebody online to sell pretty decent wheelsets for not a lot of jingle. Velomine, for example, there are others, too. But, if you want something off the wall, like a vintage SA dynohub laced into a CR18 or pretty much anything uncommon or unique, it would likely be a pain or expensive. It's not a hard thing to do, but it's not obvious, to me anyway, how to build a wheel just by looking at the finished product. Probably the important thing is to study some good detailed instructions, like Brandt's book or Sheldon's instructions, until you understand all the steps and why. Then it becomes pretty much automatic. Sort of like playing guitar or riding a bicycle.

thumpism 07-18-18 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20456052)
Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.

My first wheel build was for a ship captain who wanted something to ride around on a tanker deck, so we put a sewup rim on a 40H Sturmey hub for his "deck bike."

Buellster 07-18-18 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20456105)
Not everybody builds wheels and it's not something that anyone has to do. It's not really a big money saver either as you can find somebody online to sell pretty decent wheelsets for not a lot of jingle. Velomine, for example, there are others, too. But, if you want something off the wall, like a vintage SA dynohub laced into a CR18 or pretty much anything uncommon or unique, it would likely be a pain or expensive. It's not a hard thing to do, but it's not obvious, to me anyway, how to build a wheel just by looking at the finished product. Probably the important thing is to study some good detailed instructions, like Brandt's book or Sheldon's instructions, until you understand all the steps and why. Then it becomes pretty much automatic. Sort of like playing guitar or riding a bicycle.

There are a few wheel builders in the area that offer a fair price, if I provide the rim and hub with spokes it's not a huge cost. I'll have to look into it and see if that would cheaper or even near cost of just buying the 100 buck one.


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20456383)
My first wheel build was for a ship captain who wanted something to ride around on a tanker deck, so we put a sewup rim on a 40H Sturmey hub for his "deck bike."

Wow. Now that's a good story for a first wheel!

Lawrence_S 07-19-18 06:21 AM

Thanks, Big Chief, for the welcome! Your DL-1 is top notch. Mine is more lower rung. Pics coming soon!

paulb_in_bkln 07-19-18 08:36 AM

Can't seem to fix the shifting on Mr. Rudge. First gear will engage only with the indicator pulled perfectly tight, which is wrong right there, and it won't stay in first, it slips up into second gear, or just slips. So much for getting some beach rides on this bike. Maybe it needs a different indicator, or who knows what. Will have to wait until September and the local bike jumble where I'll be able to pick up some parts.


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